Poor Karl Rove - Quit pickin on him, he didn’t do nothin.

[Edward Teach]

Two defenses aired on television today by Rove defenders prove that he is innocent.

Rove didn’t name Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, he merely said that Joseph Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA. He didn’t name a CIA agent.
See, the liberal left leaning press and everybody else accusing him is wrong.


Rove didn’t out a "covert" agent as required for prosecution under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
If Valerie Plame was a "covert" agent then Rove would not have known about her. The fact that he knew about her means that she was not "covert" and therefore he could not have broken the law.
See, everybody is wrong again.

Shame on them all.


Fairly compresive Plame/Rove/Wilson site


Ed

.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

What surprises me most hre is apparently Karl leaked the information himself. For the man who is accounted by most to be the brins of the Bush administration, behind Dick Cheney or course, that seems unforgiveably stupid.

Not trying to take away from the severity of the action, merely shocked at the stupidity from someone who should know better.

 

[impressive]

What surprises me most hre is apparently Karl leaked the information himself. For the man who is accounted by most to be the brins of the Bush administration, behind Dick Cheney or course, that seems unforgiveably stupid.

Not trying to take away from the severity of the action, merely shocked at the stupidity from someone who should know better.

You'll never convince me that this was not a calculated "fuck up."

 

[Alfie Higgins]

Coleen said:
Not trying to take away from the severity of the action, merely shocked at the stupidity from someone who should know better

It was arrogance that led to stupidity. Rove has been using these tactics for many, many years.

The press has loved to take the Rove lies and build them into a dirt castle of doom for Rove's and Bush's enemies.

I'm sure Rove felt, why would the Wilson incident be any different?

Rove's absolute power has corrupted what little sense of propriety he might have been left with.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

I'd like to comment on this thread, but since it's about an ongoing investigation, I can't.

 

[LadyJeanne]

What surprises me most hre is apparently Karl leaked the information himself. For the man who is accounted by most to be the brins of the Bush administration, behind Dick Cheney or course, that seems unforgiveably stupid.

Not trying to take away from the severity of the action, merely shocked at the stupidity from someone who should know better.

He's leaked information before, to the same reporter. I believe that incident led to Rove getting fired from the Bush campaign to re-elect him as TX governor. I'm willing to venture that he's done it many, many times but just didn't get caught.

Maybe he's a leakoholic; Rove just can't help himself.

Edited to add: He probably thought he had covered his tracks well enough. Now, what did Bush know and when did he know it?

 

[rgraham666]

Now, what did Bush know and when did he know it?

Bush, as always, knows nothing. If he knew anything, he would be dangerous.

Would you trust him with anything?

 

[Guest]

Bush, as always, knows nothing. If he knew anything, he would be dangerous.

Would you trust him with anything?

If any of you had a clue what was really going on you'd be working in DC. Instead you get all your info from the media which has its own agenda. That agenda is ratings. You then take that small bit of skewed info, blow it out of proportion and spread it around for everyone to embelish a little more, over speculate on it and make matters all the worse. I know of two presidents who were assassinated because of that sort of shit.

You think you know how to run things better? Run for office.

I'm well past getting angry at all the political speculation here. Now I just find it amusing how otherwise intelligent people are willing to believe anything they read when it comes to politics.

 

[Guest]

If any of you had a clue what was really going on you'd be working in DC. Instead you get all your info from the media which has its own agenda. That agenda is ratings. You then take that small bit of skewed info, blow it out of proportion and spread it around for everyone to embelish a little more, over speculate on it and make matters all the worse. I know of two presidents who were assassinated because of that sort of shit.

You think you know how to run things better? Run for office.

I'm well past getting angry at all the political speculation here. Now I just find it amusing how otherwise intelligent people are willing to believe anything they read when it comes to politics.

Please listen to something other than FOX News, Dran.

It doesn't matter what your politics are here. Or, it shouldn't.

I don't wish to run for office. I don't have enough money and I don't have the requisite skills. I do, however, possess a modicum of intelligence.

There are plenty of real facts on this issue. If the prosecutor of the ongoing two-year investigation will have enough to make a solid case we'll all hear more about it.

Of course democrats are gleeful. It's about damn time some of the shady dealings of this administration have been brought to light.

And of course republicans are trying to spin it into a political attack.

Only problem? Democrats didn't do this. This fuck-up is all Bush administration cronies.

To stare straight in the face of the public and tell them you'll fire whoever was behind this leak (after giving the guilty 24 hours to hide, of course) is pretty bold. And damned determined.

So when the facts surfaced two years later that it was a close personal friend of the president (as well as the deputy chief of staff of the White House) who was involved? Gracious. What to do?

The president had better keep his word with the American people. His approval rating is down and dropping.

Of course, now Rove is saying that Novak told him.

*sigh*

Nobody admits blame anymore, do they. No one takes responsibility. Nobody stands up and says, "It was my fault, I apologize, I deserve the appropriate repercussions for my actions."

 

[Guest]

Nobody admits blame anymore, do they. No one takes responsibility. Nobody stands up and says, "It was my fault, I apologize, I deserve the appropriate repercussions for my actions."

This is exactly my point. None of them are going to admit to wrong doing. The white house is going to put their spin on it to save their asses. The democrats are going to put their spin on it to take down the white house. And the press is going to put their spin on to make a bigger buck, create some dissention cause a few protests that they can cover, get higher ratings and charge more for advertising.

Meanwhile the American public who knows JACK SHIT about what really happened, spends all day in political arguments over an issue that really means nothing. So what is the end result? Not a bloody thing. A herd of activists on both sides got their panties in a bunch over who put mushrooms in the spaghetti sauce for the White house dinner and why Senator so and so wasn't invited to it.

Enough already. All this does is slow down the process and steal recources from matters that are FAR more important.

BTW: I don't watch FOX news. Nor do I watch any other news broadcasts. None of them can present the facts anymore without presenting ONLY the the facts that further their political agenda and asking loaded questions to try and stir something up that wasn't important to begin with.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . . Now, what did Bush know and when did he know it?

Uncurious George has built-in plausible deniability. Even if a memo is found, everybody knows that Dubya don’t read nuttin’. Many believe he is illiterate (that photo of him ‘reading’ a book upside-down.) Like Reagan, he only needs to say that he didn’t understand and who could doubt him?

Rove, on the other hand, is burdened with an image of competence, even brilliance. That might act as a deterrent in any I didn’t understand alibi.

 

[raphy]

If any of you had a clue what was really going on you'd be working in DC. Instead you get all your info from the media which has its own agenda. That agenda is ratings. You then take that small bit of skewed info, blow it out of proportion and spread it around for everyone to embelish a little more, over speculate on it and make matters all the worse. I know of two presidents who were assassinated because of that sort of shit.

You think you know how to run things better? Run for office.

I'm well past getting angry at all the political speculation here. Now I just find it amusing how otherwise intelligent people are willing to believe anything they read when it comes to politics.

Nah, if you were *really* worried about the running of this country, you'd skip the 'run for office part' and worm your way into Big Business. Multi-billion dollar trans-national corporations, and our esteemed 'Captains of Industry'.

That's who runs the show. Always been that way.

 

[Guest]

This is exactly my point. None of them are going to admit to wrong doing. The white house is going to put their spin on it to save their asses. The democrats are going to put their spin on it to take down the white house. And the press is going to put their spin on to make a bigger buck, create some dissention cause a few protests that they can cover, get higher ratings and charge more for advertising.

Exactly what spin are the democrats using? Reporting the facts?

Meanwhile the American public who knows JACK SHIT about what really happened, spends all day in political arguments over an issue that really means nothing. So what is the end result? Not a bloody thing. A herd of activists on both sides got their panties in a bunch over who put mushrooms in the spaghetti sauce for the White house dinner and why Senator so and so wasn't invited to it.

I welcome open exchange. I hope for the chance to debate issues in a positive manner. I'm thrilled at the outrage in the public right now, many of whom didn't even bother to vote in the last election.

This is what we are supposed to be doing, we solid citizens of this country. Get angry, get motivated, get off our asses and contribute to bettering the U.S.

Enough already. All this does is slow down the process and steal recources from matters that are FAR more important.

No. It does not slow down the process. We cannot be complacent while an obviously marred process is in the works. Before progressing, the problems must be fixed.

(Notice I'm not bringing up Kenneth Starr, and the waste of years and millions?)

BTW: I don't watch FOX news. Nor do I watch any other news broadcasts. None of them can present the facts anymore without presenting ONLY the the facts that further their political agenda and asking loaded questions to try and stir something up that wasn't important to begin with.

I apologize for the FOX News slam; it amazes me how many people eat that up without understanding how far every story spins to the right.

But - I watch the news, I read the news, I listen to the news. I change stations to hear other opinions (which is how I've seen a bit of the FOX slant). I monitor interested sites, I talk to intelligent friends, I debate with great energy serious political issues with people who hold opposing viewpoints.

And I disagree with you on this issue. This wasn't important to begin with?

To purposefully out an operative (yes she wasn't in the field at that time) because you did not want to hear from her husband that there was no information about Iraq obtaining weapons of mass destruction - all this in order to push forth your previously decided upon agenda, which included going to war against Iraq for WMD.

Important, yes. And if this is true (and I realize it is still an ongoing investigation) it is frightening as hell.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . . I watch the news, I read the news, I listen to the news. I change stations to hear other opinions (which is how I've seen a bit of the FOX slant). I monitor interested sites, I talk to intelligent friends, I debate with great energy serious political issues with people who hold opposing viewpoints. . .

You TRAITOR!

You SCANDAL MONGER!

You . . . you LIBERAL!

Don’t you know there’s a war on?

Why aren’t you supporting the troops?

 

[Edward Teach]

Meanwhile the American public who knows JACK SHIT about what really happened, spends all day in political arguments over an issue that really means nothing. So what is the end result? Not a bloody thing. A herd of activists on both sides got their panties in a bunch over who put mushrooms in the spaghetti sauce for the White house dinner and why Senator so and so wasn't invited to it.

Guess we should quit worring about it, stick our heads in the sand and not vote, huh?

.

 

[impressive]

Guess we should quit worring about it, stick our heads in the sand and not vote, huh?

.

Nope -- just write a BDSM story with Plame having Rove's sorry ass chained to a greased tetherball pole in St. Peter's Square. I'm thinking perhaps a branding iron, too.

 

[Guest]

A few questions about Mass Media

I've listened for years to complaints about the liberal media and you can perhaps argue there is some basis. Maybe.

But has any main stream media (ABC, NBC, CBS) been as biased for the Left as Fox unabashedly is for the Right?

I don't see one of those outlets above run by a former Democrat operative like Fox is run by a former Republican operative.

Those outlets are not headed by a strong personality with a solidly identified political leaning, as Rupert Murdoch is.

I don't see a host on those networks screaming at guests like O'Reilley does, or using the invectitude Sean Hannity uses against Democratic politicians.

I don't see the consistency of message on any one of those networks as you do on Fox throughout their programming day, telling me there are talking points coming down from the top.

I don't see them giving voice to guests rabidly intolerant of opposing views like Ann Coulter.

I've come to the opnion, the best way anymore to learn the truth is to know what bias your news sources come with. Then find a right wing, and left wing sources and try to triangulate to the truth.

 

[Guest]

You TRAITOR!

You SCANDAL MONGER!

You . . . you LIBERAL!

Don’t you know there’s a war on?

Why aren’t you supporting the troops?

I know they read my stories - I've gotten lovely feedback.

Is that supportive enough?

 

[Edward Teach]

Nope -- just write a BDSM story with Plame having Rove's sorry ass chained to a greased tetherball pole in St. Peter's Square. I'm thinking perhaps a branding iron, too.

Damn, what a Nude Day story THAT would have made!! McKenna wouldn't have stood a chance.

On second thought you may be on to something, Imp. Have you seen a picture of Valerie Plame? That may be kinda what Rove was wanting. It would sure as hell explain his not using a go-between.

 

[Guest]

I've come to the opnion, the best way anymore to learn the truth is to know what bias your news sources come with. Then find a right wing, and left wing sources and try to triangulate to the truth.

Yes. And isn't that insane?

I'd heard the rhetoric about FOX News before but had imagined it to be merely spin.

Until -

We were visiting the in-laws one holiday weekend and my husband and I brought up an event that was topical and all over the "regular" news channels. (This was when we could still discuss politics in the extended family. We can't do that now, of course.)

My sister, her husband and my parents had no idea what we were saying. They hadn't heard the story. It was amazing.

At any rate, that situation was eye-opening for us. If FOX News is filtering news events for their viewers - not based on nudity or violence, but on political or morale viewpoints - there is a huge segment of the population purposefully left unaware.

So, as distasteful as it is, we make certain to watch the FOX News version of events once in awhile.

It pays to be able to understand the enemy.

 

[CharleyH]

Two defenses aired on television today by Rove defenders prove that he is innocent.

Rove didn’t name Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, he merely said that Joseph Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA. He didn’t name a CIA agent.
See, the liberal left leaning press and everybody else accusing him is wrong.


Rove didn’t out a "covert" agent as required for prosecution under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
If Valerie Plame was a "covert" agent then Rove would not have known about her. The fact that he knew about her means that she was not "covert" and therefore he could not have broken the law.
See, everybody is wrong again.

Shame on them all.


Fairly compresive Plame/Rove/Wilson site


Ed

I know nothing like Homer - DOH - But Hi, Eddie-Rapper Simply ... (others can ignore me ... otherwise . ) A kiss and hug long time no see Hope you are better than well?!

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Damn, what a Nude Day story THAT would have made!! McKenna wouldn't have stood a chance.

On second thought you may be on to something, Imp. Have you seen a picture of Valerie Plame? That may be kinda what Rove was wanting. It would sure as hell explain his not using a go-between.

that's it, I'm bumping the "sickest celebrity fantasies" thread.

 

[Guest]

We were visiting the in-laws one holiday weekend and my husband and I brought up an event that was topical and all over the "regular" news channels.
My sister, her husband and my parents had no idea what we were saying. They hadn't heard the story. It was amazing.

At any rate, that situation was eye-opening for us. If FOX News is filtering news events for their viewers

Just curious - what event?

 

[Guest]

Just curious - what event?

Argh - you would ask - this happened last summer and now I can't remember.

I'll ask my husband when he gets home - see if he can place it.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Withou taking sides, Dran has a point. And it's a goo done.

The pundits here examine everything that comes out of the whitehouse or pentagon with a skepticism and clinical detachment that is admirable. The same people, however, parrot anything that is enimicable to the administration without applying even the slighest bit of critical thinking.

I am well reminded of the near lynch mob mentality generated by published reports that a Diebold Machine in Ohio gave President Bush something onthe order of 1000% or the total voters in the district.

there were peopl ehere sreaming fix, scandal, stolen election, etc. and an air that approached hysteria. Until WH showed up and did his best Paul harvey, the rest of the story. Turns out one machine counted every vote multiple times, but the same machine that gave Bush that many extra votes, did the same for Kerry, and for third party candidates.

I still see that bandied about as proof the election was stolen, and people get positively defensive when you tell them the rest of the story.

He also has good grounds for pointing out a media agenda. In my opinion, a liberal agenda, but without doubt a ratings agenda. One need look no farther than Dan Rather & Co, doing a hatchet job on a siting president 2 weeks before an election to see it.

WE should all apply the same stringent critical thinking to Claims Bush is a moron as we do to claims he's a genius. The well informed person knows both sides of the issue and is aware of the spin applied by both sides. We should all strive to know both sides before we opine.