Polynesians Found Americas Before Columbus

[R. Richard]

The first known European visit to the Americas was Thorfinn Karlsefni, probably around the year 1014. Now it appears that Polynesians may also have beaten Columbus to the Americas. The Polynesians apparently came bearing chickens. Comment?

Chicken Bones Suggest Polynesians Found Americas Before Columbus

Popular history, and a familiar rhyme about Christopher Columbus, holds that Europeans made contact with the Americas in 1492, with some arguing that the explorer and his crew were the first outsiders to reach the New World.

But chicken bones recently unearthed on the coast of Chile—dating prior to Columbus’ “discovery” of America and resembling the DNA of a fowl species native to Polynesia—may challenge that notion, researchers say.

“Chickens could not have gotten to South America on their own—they had to be taken by humans,” said anthropologist Lisa Matisoo-Smith from the University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Polynesians made contact with the west coast of South America as much as a century before any Spanish conquistadors, her findings imply.

DNA in bone

The chicken bones were discovered at an archaeological site called El Arenal, on the south coast of Chile, alongside other materials belonging to the indigenous population. While chickens aren’t native to the region, it was believed the local Araucana species found there now was brought to the Americas by Spanish settlers around 1500.

Tests on the bones, however, now indicate the birds arrived well before any European made landfall in South America, Matisoo-Smith and her colleague Alice Storey found.

“We had the chicken bone directly dated by radio carbon. The calibrated date was clearly prior to 1492,” Matisoo-Smith told LiveScience, noting that it could have ranged anywhere from 1304 to 1424. “This also fits with the other dates obtained from the site (on other materials), and it fits with the cultural period of the site.”

Did Polynesians continue eastwards?

DNA extracted from the bones also matched closely with a Polynesian breed of chicken, rather than any chickens found in Europe.

Polynesia was settled by sailors who migrated from mainland Southeast Asia, beginning about 3,000 years ago. They continued gradually eastwards, but were never thought to have journeyed further than Easter Island, about 2,000 miles off the coast of continental Chile.

The chicken DNA suggests at least one group did make the harrowing journey across the remaining stretch of Pacific, Matisoo-Smith said.

“We cannot say exactly which island the voyage came from. The DNA sequence is found in chickens from Tonga, Samoa, Niue, Easter Island and Hawaii,” Matisoo-Smith said. “If we had to guess, we would say it was unlikely to have come from West Polynesia and most likely to have come from Easter Island or some other East Polynesian source that we have not yet sampled.”

The results are detailed in the latest issue of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Kon-Tiki trip in reverse

It might be the most tangible, but this isn’t the first evidence that pre-Columbian voyages from the Pacific to South America were possible.

In 1947, Thor Heyerdahl, the famous Norwegian anthropologist, made the voyage from Peru to Polynesia aboard his Kon-Tiki raft to prove the trip was doable with a rudimentary vessel.

There are more scientific arguments, too, said Matisoo-Smith.

“There is increasing evidence of multiple contacts with the Americas,” she said, “based on linguistic evidence and similarities in fish hook styles.” Physical evidence of human DNA from Polynesia has yet to be found in South America, she added.

 

[Pure]

don't you have a sense that talking of "finding* the Americas" is a bit odd?

if there are [at a given time] people in the Americas, then clearly the latter were found.


---
*or 'discovering'
(thanks cloudy)

 

[NoJo]

Seems pretty obvious to me that the original human population of the Americas mustve come from Africa (along with all other humans), via Asia.

The Afghan cab driver I had was continually taken for a native when he was in Ecuador. That's where I thought he was from too.

 

[cloudy]

don't you have a sense that talking of "finding the Americas" is a bit odd?

if there are people in the Americas, then clealry the latter were found.

Yeah, I've always had issues with that, too....and the whole "discovered" thing.

eta: Joe, we're definitely Asians, as far as DNA type goes. There are some other physical similarities...teeth, for one.

 

[Guest]

This has been suggested before. The sweet potato is a staple of Polynesia but apparently originated in South America.

Easter Island, the Eastern most known Polynesian settlement is 2,237 miles from Chile. It is pretty well documented that Polynesians sailed between Tahiti and Hawaii, about 2,400 miles, routinely.

So continuing on to South America, was well within the realm of possibility.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Chris Columbus. '92. Invented America. Didn't exist before that. Go Rebs.

 

[NoJo]

I think Historians consider the baking of the first Apple Pie, by Florence Cremshaw in 1631 in Jessup Maryland, to mark the start of date of America

 

[3113]

“Chickens could not have gotten to South America on their own—they had to be taken by humans,” said anthropologist Lisa Matisoo-Smith from the University of Auckland, New Zealand.

I take issue with this. I think the chickens got there on their own. Maybe they were mutant swimming chickens or something.

 

[R. Richard]

Chris Columbus. '92. Invented America. Didn't exist before that. Go Rebs.

Not quite!
From Wiki:
Amerigo Vespucci (March 9, 1454 -February 22, 1512) was an Italian merchant, explorer and cartographer. He played a senior role in two voyages which explored the east coast of South America between 1499 and 1502. On the second of these voyages he discovered that South America extended much further south than previously known by Europeans. This convinced him that this land was part of a new continent, a bold contention at a time when other European explorers crossing the Atlantic thought they were reaching Asia (the "Indies").

 

[R. Richard]

I take issue with this. I think the chickens got there on their own. Maybe they were mutant swimming chickens or something.

This is the type of thing that distorts history. Yes, they got there as a result of mutants. However, the mutants were teenage ninja turtles. The chickens rode om their backs as they swam from Rappa Nui. [That still leaves us the mystery of how the TMNT got to Rappa Nui.

 

[R. Richard]

don't you have a sense that talking of "finding* the Americas" is a bit odd?

if there are [at a given time] people in the Americas, then clearly the latter were found.


---
*or 'discovering'
(thanks cloudy)

It would appear that the Polynesians did find or discover the Americas. The Polynesians were not the first to find or discover the Americas, but that does not prevent them from finding or discovering the Americas. Columbus also found or discovered the Americas, despite the facts that he was not even the first European to find or discover the Americas and that he did not realize that he had found or discovered the Americas. [The people he found living in the islands he found he called Indians since he thought he was in India. This last should be a warning about booking with cheap travel agencies.]

 

[R. Richard]

eta: Joe, we're definitely Asians, as far as DNA type goes. There are some other physical similarities...teeth, for one.

While it is true that a lot of Amerinds were obviously from Asia and arrived via the Bering land bridge, there are a number of anomallys, such as Kennewick Man.

 

[cloudy]

While it is true that a lot of Amerinds were obviously from Asia and arrived via the Bering land bridge, there are a number of anomallys, such as Kennewick Man.

Kennewick Man is old news. He's also of Asian descent like the rest of us, it's been found.

(btw, it's not "a lot." All American Indians are of Asian descent. There are three DNA groups: Caucasian, Negroid, and Asian...we fall into the Asian group)

 

[R. Richard]

Kennewick Man is old news. He's also of Asian descent like the rest of us, it's been found.

(btw, it's not "a lot." All American Indians are of Asian descent. There are three DNA groups: Caucasian, Negroid, and Asian...we fall into the Asian group)

I would dispute that there are only three DNA groups. The bushmen of the Kalahari were not Negro, nor yet did they resemble any of the other Caucasion peoples. [I use past tense, because most of the bushmen have interbred with the Negros in Africa.]

I have seen studies that indicate that Kennewick man most closely resembles modern day pacific islanders [Asian] or Ainu [Caucasian, although from Asia.] I don;t have enough learning to form an opion here.

I would suggest that you read a book titled, "America's Ancient Civilizations." The book was written by A. Hyatt Verril and Ruth Verril. The book is copyrighted 1953 and has some very interesting research on possible origins of the Amerinds. The basic conclusion is that there were probably numerous sources of Amerind ancestors. The finding of probably pre-Columbian Polynesian visits are not ancient enough to allow Polynesian ancestry for Amerinds, nor have the Polynesians existed long enough to allow a great deal of Polynesian ancestry for Amerinds. However, there were other possible ancestors for Amerinds, apparently including the Sumerians. [A great deal of evidence is presented in the book, but my ancient Sumerian language expertise is a bit rusty.]

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Not quite!
From Wiki:
Amerigo Vespucci (March 9, 1454 -February 22, 1512) was an Italian merchant, explorer and cartographer. He played a senior role in two voyages which explored the east coast of South America between 1499 and 1502. On the second of these voyages he discovered that South America extended much further south than previously known by Europeans. This convinced him that this land was part of a new continent, a bold contention at a time when other European explorers crossing the Atlantic thought they were reaching Asia (the "Indies").

Amerigo lied. Wikipedia's wrong. Go Columbus, woo.

 

[amicus]

]Kennewick Man is old news. He's also of Asian descent like the rest of us, it's been found.[/B]

(btw, it's not "a lot." All American Indians are of Asian descent. There are three DNA groups: Caucasian, Negroid, and Asian...we fall into the Asian group)

, y

~~~

Cloudy, ya disappoint me. The evidence indicates that Kennewick Man is of European ancestry and DNA.

Why would you wish to assert otherwise?

Blue eyed, fair haired Amerinds don't fit the profile?

There is also other recent evidence that Europeans followed the edge of the glaciers across the North Atlantic all the way to Times Square and the time line precedes even the Clovis evidence.

amicus (part Cherokee) ugh, how!

 

[Guest]

In Columbus was Last the author Patrick Huyghe tries to make some dubious cases, but one interesting one is the discover of First Century Japanese pottery in Ecuador.

Had off shore fisherman been swept up in storms, the current would have dumped them 45 days later in Ecuador. They could have survived on their own fish and captured enough fresh water to survive.

It was, however, a one way accidental trip, unlike the suggested Polynesian one.

 

[R. Richard]

In Columbus was Last the author Patrick Huyghe tries to make some dubious cases, but one interesting one is the discover of First Century Japanese pottery in Ecuador.

Had off shore fisherman been swept up in storms, the current would have dumped them 45 days later in Ecuador. They could have survived on their own fish and captured enough fresh water to survive.

It was, however, a one way accidental trip, unlike the suggested Polynesian one.

It is also not impossible that Negroes from the general Freetown/Monrovia area of Africa were caught in a storm and swept over to the coast of Brazil. The journey is more than a thousand miles, but not at all impossible if they were caught in a storm and ran before the wind.

 

[cloudy]

I would dispute that there are only three DNA groups. The bushmen of the Kalahari were not Negro, nor yet did they resemble any of the other Caucasion peoples. [I use past tense, because most of the bushmen have interbred with the Negros in Africa.]

I have seen studies that indicate that Kennewick man most closely resembles modern day pacific islanders [Asian] or Ainu [Caucasian, although from Asia.] I don;t have enough learning to form an opion here.

Dispute it all you want to, it's still a scientific fact...doesn't depend on whether you believe it or not.

*shrug*

It has been suggested by his DNA that Kennewick Man was related to the Ainu people, originally from South Asia, which means Asian, not Caucasian.

I'll leave y'all to argue about it, since you'll never believe that I could possibly know anything about where my ancestors come from, or what DNA group mine falls into.

eta: amicus: what ever nonsense you're spouting now, I have no idea, thankfully. I put you on ignore yesterday, and you'll stay there.

 

[R. Richard]

Dispute it all you want to, it's still a scientific fact...doesn't depend on whether you believe it or not.

*shrug*

It has been suggested by his DNA that Kennewick Man was related to the Ainu people, originally from South Asia, which means Asian, not Caucasian.

Cloudy:
I am quite familiar with the Ainu people. There is, to this day, considerable debate as to the origin of the Ainu people. Back in the 50s they were considered to be Caucasian and were called 'hairy Ainu.' Their langage is apparently considered to be an isolate group [like the Zuni] and might or might not relate to any of several other language groups. There are even those who believe that the Ainu are neither Caucasion not Mongoloid, but an different racial grouping. This last would be difficult to prove, since many Ainu intermarried with the Japanese. I am unaware of in depth DNA studies of the Ainu people.

scientific fact?
From Wiki:
=======================================================
The Bushmen, San, Basarwa or Khwe are indigenous people of the Kalahari Desert, which spans areas of South Africa, Botswana, Namibia and Angola. They were traditionally hunter-gatherers, part of the Khoisan group, and are related to the traditionally pastoral Khoikhoi. Starting in the 1950s through the 1990s they switched to farming, with only minor hunting and gathering activities. Archaeological evidence suggests that they have lived in southern Africa (and probably other areas of Africa) for at least 22,000 years but probably much longer. Genetic evidence suggests they are one of the oldest, if not the oldest, peoples in the world — a "genetic Adam" according to Spencer Wells, from which all humans can ultimately trace their genetic heritage.

Spencer Wells' 2003 book The Journey of Man—in connection with National Geographic's Genographic Project—discusses a genetic analysis of the San and asserts their blood contains the oldest genetic markers found on earth, making the Bushmen humankind's "genetic Adam". These genetic markers are present on the y chromosome and are therefore passed down through thousands of generations in a relatively pure form. The documentary continues to trace these markers throughout the world, demonstrating that all of humankind can be traced back to the African continent and that the San are the last, most genetically unadulterated, remnant of humankind's ancient ancestors.
=========================================================
From observation:
The pure bushman had apricot colored skin [markedly different from the black Negro skin.] The bushman had 'peppercorn' hair. [The hair grows in defined clumps with narrow 'sweat channels' delimiting the clumps. The 'peppercorn' hair is also found in Negros and is the basis of 'cornrows.] The bushmen lived in a very flat desert land and the ability to see game/enemies first was an important survival characteristic. Some young bushmen could see the large moons of Jupiter with the unaided eye.

The male bushmen look like Olympic decathletes, with muscular but not bulky builds, what you might expect of guys who made their living chasing beasties with only spears for a living.

The female bushmen were generally slim woman, except for enormous buttocks, where they stored enough fat to get them through a pregnancy despite the uncertain food intake of hunter/gatherers. The female bushmen also had a flap of skin that partially covered the vagina [presumably to keep blowing sand out.]

It is my opinion that the bushmen are neither Negro nor Caucasian but a separate racial grouping.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I would dispute that there are only three DNA groups. The bushmen of the Kalahari were not Negro, nor yet did they resemble any of the other Caucasion peoples. [I use past tense, because most of the bushmen have interbred with the Negros in Africa.]

Professor Dowd divides the Negroes into five groups or types:

"First, the Negritos, including the dwarf races of the Equatorial regions, the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert, and the Hottentots of the Southern Steppe.

"Second, the Negritians, including all the natives of dark skin and wooly hair, occupying the territory of the Sudan.

"Third, the Fellatahs, a race supposed to have sprung from crossing the Berbers of the desert with Negritians of Sudan,-- (occupying the northern portion of the sudan).

"Fourth, the Bantus, including a vast population of somewhat lighter color and less Negroid features than the natives of the Sudan, occupying almost all of the West Africa below the Sudan.

"Fifth, the Gallas, including all of the lighter colored people of east Africa from the Galla country to the Zambesi river."


sorry, that just kind of nibbled at me and I had to research it.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

[I use past tense, because most of the bushmen have interbred with the Negros in Africa.]

I highly doubt it.

You know this as fact?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Let's just be honest and admit that modern races have no bearing on Kennewick Man, okay? Races were just forming at the time, and Kennewick Man was some sort of early migrant to North America who had a bit more Australoid genes than most of his neighbors, most likely.

Yes, Victoria, other people found America first. And our ancestors sent them to reservations. No one else stayed until after Columbus. Not even the Chinese. Maybe the Emperor decided that he didn't want to fight a possible war to conquer a people that knew the land and bore an eerie resemblance to Mongols and some Siberian natives (that's because Siberian natives are related to Native Americans). Evidently the local wildlife wasn't worth fighting a war about. Especially since they couldn't be sure about the presence of gold. I'm guessing that Emperor was a smart fellow, too. Too many hostile neighbors to waste resources on acquiring new neighbors. Besides, the Mandarin no doubt complained about the administrative headaches and the possible revenue shortfalls.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I highly doubt it.

You know this as fact?

I find it improbable myself. That much interbreeding, given the demographics, and there wouldn't be any Bushmen by now.

 

[cloudy]

Back in the 50s they were considered to be Caucasian and were called 'hairy Ainu.'

"Back in the 50's" eugenics was still considered legitimate, too. So?

It is my opinion that the bushmen are neither Negro nor Caucasian but a separate racial grouping.

Your opinion, exactly, which means diddly.