Poly Advice

[autymn]

Okay let me start by defining the relationship.
Husband and I have been married a very long time he travels constantly no biggie we are both open to safe and loving relationships outside the marriage as long as everyone is kewl with it and honest about it.
Two years ago we found another couple like us she travels alot he doesn't. The poly relationship grew between all four of us and things were great for about a year and a half.
Okay my hubby travels out of state for work my poly and I maintain our relationship my hubby finds friends where he is working everything is going great.
My poly's wife decides she wants another lover no problem we all agree that it's a great idea for her.
Then she starts being dishonest about her new relationship didn't know why at first and caused alot of upset but then she came clean that her new poly was a dom master and she didn't know how we would react to that.
Our biggest upset was that she didn't tell any of us what she was doing and that she had another lover and no offence but since we all share each others partners at one point or another I didn't really feel like sleeping with a total stranger and voiced my opinion on that.
Anyways got it worked out met her new lover things are going great until my Poly asked her lover for proof of std checks and what not then things got ugly. Now I don't know about everyone else but the four of us were very honest and upfront about past lovers and medical history blah blah blah I didn't find it inconcievable that my poly would ask for that I also would not have taken offence safety first right?
Well we didn't get past that and my Poly threw a husband card down on his wife that if her new lover couldn't be honest then he didn't want her to see him.
You can guess where that went my poly's wife freaked out and told her hubby if she couldn't see whom she wanted to then he wasn't allowed to see me. It's been constant drama since.
We have all backed off the intimate part of the relationship until or if everyone is secure again.
Her dom master lover she is still seeing him and still his friend but he is encouraging her to do dishonest things and it's affecting everyone. He sent me an email this morning told me how much he despised me and my hubby and her husband and informed me that he told her she was a fool for putting up with all of us and he called us all trash.
Well this stung a lil bit as recently she has been deliberatly starting fights with everyone and really just being nasty to her husband and has threatened to move out.
We the trio of us myself my husband and her husband are at a loss this man is not good for her and she is causing irrevocable damage to her marriage and we are not sure what to do.
Her husband is at wits end and is ready to walk. All of our friendships are on thin ice and it's we believe because of this man she is seeing.
Now I know Poly's are not suppossed to interfer in the primary relationship but it's affecting everyone we have close family kids friends and all of them are affeted by this outside relationship.
We have tried to talk to her but she is not being reasonable at this point and every subject is put on the defence and we are all against her.........
So I am looking for any suggestion thought idea that may help ???

 

[silverwhisper]

she must have an inexperienced (or perhaps just stupid) dom. it is absolutely clear that the relationship with the dom is the problem. that woman betrayed everyone's trust by having sex with another party about whom everyone else was ignorant. her motives in doing so, whatever they might be, have been called into question--and quite rightly, IMHO.

she's the one who screwed all of you guys over. to hell with her, i say.

ed

 

[fgarvb1]

I'm Ignorant of such things but it is clear that your Lover's wife and her Dom lover are not to be trusted now or ever.

As to not being forthcoming with health records... what if anything is he hiding?

Making such a complex compound relationship work for an extended amount of time is a task not for the faint hearted clearly.

I smell divorce or separation in some peoples furture..at lest I hope that is the worst of it.

Good luck.

 

[autymn]

Thank you both And that was our concern as well her new lover is not just a threat to her there are others involved. I hope it doesn't go down that road before she met him she was a wonderful friend.

 

[fireymatt]

Thank you both And that was our concern as well her new lover is not just a threat to her there are others involved. I hope it doesn't go down that road before she met him she was a wonderful friend.[/QUOT

Seems like others have said it is totally her and her Dom's fault. He seems to be prying his way into things and causing things amuck. Her principles of being open seem to have vanished. Im certain he is doing this and will continue to do this until he is done with her and casts her aside..... at which point she will come crawling back with her tail between her legs. The question is.... will her husband still be there? That depends on how much he really loves her and how rotten she has been to him...... you can only kick a dog so many times before it runs away.
My advice would be to comfort and support the husband, maybe cool things off with him until his problems are sorted.... no sense in complicating things too much. Take this time and focus on your husband and make sure things are right and strong.
She will eventually find out she was wrong ...... and if she doesnt... she isnt worth your companionship

 

[coastal-boy]

a Dom may exhibit control but control does not make a Dom. This is the problem. It is up to your friend as to what is more important. If not corrected quickly, this has the potential to end quickly very unhappily. Of course...that is what this guy seeks. That is his kick.

 

[autymn]

Thank you both And that was our concern as well her new lover is not just a threat to her there are others involved. I hope it doesn't go down that road before she met him she was a wonderful friend.[/QUOT

Seems like others have said it is totally her and her Dom's fault. He seems to be prying his way into things and causing things amuck. Her principles of being open seem to have vanished. Im certain he is doing this and will continue to do this until he is done with her and casts her aside..... at which point she will come crawling back with her tail between her legs. The question is.... will her husband still be there? That depends on how much he really loves her and how rotten she has been to him...... you can only kick a dog so many times before it runs away.
My advice would be to comfort and support the husband, maybe cool things off with him until his problems are sorted.... no sense in complicating things too much. Take this time and focus on your husband and make sure things are right and strong.
She will eventually find out she was wrong ...... and if she doesnt... she isnt worth your companionship

I have been doing this and the sheets are cool trust me, my hubby and I are great we are very concerned that she is burning bridges she can't rebuild. Thank you so much for the advice.

 

[autymn]

a Dom may exhibit control but control does not make a Dom. This is the problem. It is up to your friend as to what is more important. If not corrected quickly, this has the potential to end quickly very unhappily. Of course...that is what this guy seeks. That is his kick.

We do not know how to correct it but I am beginning to agree with everyone this is going down hill fast. I just wish there was a way to make her listen. I know a lil about Dom's and this guys has serious control issues.

 

[jtf71961]

Okay let me start by defining the relationship.
Husband and I have been married a very long time he travels constantly no biggie we are both open to safe and loving relationships outside the marriage as long as everyone is kewl with it and honest about it.
Two years ago we found another couple like us she travels alot he doesn't. The poly relationship grew between all four of us and things were great for about a year and a half.
Okay my hubby travels out of state for work my poly and I maintain our relationship my hubby finds friends where he is working everything is going great.
My poly's wife decides she wants another lover no problem we all agree that it's a great idea for her.
Then she starts being dishonest about her new relationship didn't know why at first and caused alot of upset but then she came clean that her new poly was a dom master and she didn't know how we would react to that.
Our biggest upset was that she didn't tell any of us what she was doing and that she had another lover and no offence but since we all share each others partners at one point or another I didn't really feel like sleeping with a total stranger and voiced my opinion on that.
Anyways got it worked out met her new lover things are going great until my Poly asked her lover for proof of std checks and what not then things got ugly. Now I don't know about everyone else but the four of us were very honest and upfront about past lovers and medical history blah blah blah I didn't find it inconcievable that my poly would ask for that I also would not have taken offence safety first right?
Well we didn't get past that and my Poly threw a husband card down on his wife that if her new lover couldn't be honest then he didn't want her to see him.
You can guess where that went my poly's wife freaked out and told her hubby if she couldn't see whom she wanted to then he wasn't allowed to see me. It's been constant drama since.
We have all backed off the intimate part of the relationship until or if everyone is secure again.
Her dom master lover she is still seeing him and still his friend but he is encouraging her to do dishonest things and it's affecting everyone. He sent me an email this morning told me how much he despised me and my hubby and her husband and informed me that he told her she was a fool for putting up with all of us and he called us all trash.
Well this stung a lil bit as recently she has been deliberatly starting fights with everyone and really just being nasty to her husband and has threatened to move out.
We the trio of us myself my husband and her husband are at a loss this man is not good for her and she is causing irrevocable damage to her marriage and we are not sure what to do.
Her husband is at wits end and is ready to walk. All of our friendships are on thin ice and it's we believe because of this man she is seeing.
Now I know Poly's are not suppossed to interfer in the primary relationship but it's affecting everyone we have close family kids friends and all of them are affeted by this outside relationship.
We have tried to talk to her but she is not being reasonable at this point and every subject is put on the defence and we are all against her.........
So I am looking for any suggestion thought idea that may help ???

I suggest to brake it off with the 2 of them, atleast they can both work it out to maybe save their marriage(which should be most important). If her new lover has std's they could spread to you if she gets them, so it is a tough situation. Good Luck!

 

[SweetErika]

I don't think the dom is the problem since there are bad people everywhere and this dom wasn't in on your agreements as a group.

As hard as it might be to admit, the blame lies with this woman. She's the one who picked a bad partner, lied about all sorts of things, didn't enforce the group's agreements, continued to see her dom after her husband vetoed the relationship and is now allowing her outside relationship to negatively impact her marriage and prior relationships. Her bad judgment, dishonesty and character flaws aren't the result of her dom or D/s relationship, they're just more apparent since she's been in that relationship. Given time, the same problems likely would have come to light in her relationship with her husband, your husband or someone else.

The best thing you can do is disengage yourselves from this woman. Let her husband decide what he wants to do on his own and don't worry about what his wife is or isn't doing. You can certainly support him as a friend, but you're right to stop your sexual relationship since you can't limit the STI risk and know their relationship is in turmoil.

And as great as regular STI testing is, it's hardly proof of a potential partner's safety. What if this woman's dom had showed you his clean test results but had just been infected with HIV, or had asymptomatic HPV (which isn't tested for in men), or gave her herpes? There's no safe sex, but you might want to consider a combination of regular testing, talking and safer sex measures rather than taking the word of potential partners.

 

[satindesire]

We do not know how to correct it but I am beginning to agree with everyone this is going down hill fast. I just wish there was a way to make her listen. I know a lil about Dom's and this guys has serious control issues.

That's the thing sweetie, you -can't- make her listen. She's chosen her road, you have to just let her travel on it.

Since the Dom was not forthcoming with STD checks, I'm assuming both you and your husband have gotten checked recently?

 

[autymn]

That's the thing sweetie, you -can't- make her listen. She's chosen her road, you have to just let her travel on it.

Since the Dom was not forthcoming with STD checks, I'm assuming both you and your husband have gotten checked recently?

Oh yea and continue to do so along with her husband. Another problem that has arose and just within the past week my poly has shared with me that he isn't having sex with her do to the sti factor and she is beyond pissed. He comes to me for advice and I really am trying to stay neutral but it's not easy to watch one you love go through this. I don't talk to her unless she starts the conversation so I am trying not to instigate or further the problems but how do I help him cope?

 

[autymn]

I don't think the dom is the problem since there are bad people everywhere and this dom wasn't in on your agreements as a group.

As hard as it might be to admit, the blame lies with this woman. She's the one who picked a bad partner, lied about all sorts of things, didn't enforce the group's agreements, continued to see her dom after her husband vetoed the relationship and is now allowing her outside relationship to negatively impact her marriage and prior relationships. Her bad judgment, dishonesty and character flaws aren't the result of her dom or D/s relationship, they're just more apparent since she's been in that relationship. Given time, the same problems likely would have come to light in her relationship with her husband, your husband or someone else.

The best thing you can do is disengage yourselves from this woman. Let her husband decide what he wants to do on his own and don't worry about what his wife is or isn't doing. You can certainly support him as a friend, but you're right to stop your sexual relationship since you can't limit the STI risk and know their relationship is in turmoil.

And as great as regular STI testing is, it's hardly proof of a potential partner's safety. What if this woman's dom had showed you his clean test results but had just been infected with HIV, or had asymptomatic HPV (which isn't tested for in men), or gave her herpes? There's no safe sex, but you might want to consider a combination of regular testing, talking and safer sex measures rather than taking the word of potential partners.

I would love to disengage from her and essentially have and even though we are not intimate I can not turn my back on my poly right now his world is a living hell at this moment . Our kids are close his children have come to rely on me as much as my children on him we are that close. What you say makes sense to me and I could have placed the blame at her feet except for the email this morning which tells me he is part to blame for feeding her and fueling the fire. But I am to the point of telling him he may have to cut her lose and just be there for the fall out.

 

[endoprime]

I'm in a poly relationship myself, that is similar to yours. Two loving couples who love each other dearly. Our poly couple are a married Dom/sub couple, my poly is the sub.

It appears to me, from what you have said, that it is the fifth wheel in your poly relationship that is rocking the boat. He may not understand what a poly amourous relationship is and is confusing it with an ongoing Dom/sub relationship.

Your poly's wife my also be confused about what has been occuring. Finding a new lover is exciting and certainly makes me feel like a teenager again. She might consider herself in the situation that here is someone I love, provides something I need in my relationship and the rest of my poly does not understand. Furthermore, they have isolated me, so the only person I can talk to is my new lover/poly. Lastly, they have been so open previously about our relationship and are now so closed I can barely talk to them.

In my mind the emotions are running high and the risk of losing several relationships is at a high.

I've found that re-establishing that open communication, which is key in a poly relationship, has worked for me. It's not much in way of advice but it might help.

 

[autymn]

I'm in a poly relationship myself, that is similar to yours. Two loving couples who love each other dearly. Our poly couple are a married Dom/sub couple, my poly is the sub.

It appears to me, from what you have said, that it is the fifth wheel in your poly relationship that is rocking the boat. He may not understand what a poly amourous relationship is and is confusing it with an ongoing Dom/sub relationship.

Your poly's wife my also be confused about what has been occuring. Finding a new lover is exciting and certainly makes me feel like a teenager again. She might consider herself in the situation that here is someone I love, provides something I need in my relationship and the rest of my poly does not understand. Furthermore, they have isolated me, so the only person I can talk to is my new lover/poly. Lastly, they have been so open previously about our relationship and are now so closed I can barely talk to them.

In my mind the emotions are running high and the risk of losing several relationships is at a high.

I've found that re-establishing that open communication, which is key in a poly relationship, has worked for me. It's not much in way of advice but it might help.

This is so whats going on how do you open the lines of communication again?

 

[coastal-boy]

We do not know how to correct it but I am beginning to agree with everyone this is going down hill fast. I just wish there was a way to make her listen. I know a lil about Dom's and this guys has serious control issues.

unfortunately, it isn't your job to correct this. It is hers. I can not say this is what you should do. This is what I would do. I would go to her and tell her you are sorry for the way this is ending but that you have decided that this is no longer healthy and safe...that trust has been violated and all relationships are built on trust. Wish her happinessgive her a hug and then you turn and walk away. Then it becomes an issue between her and her husband. Simplify the issue. Support the husband but don't meddle or enable.

The problem with "opening lines of communication" is that it requires 2 participants. If one closes down, you are talking to air.

 

[SweetErika]

I would love to disengage from her and essentially have and even though we are not intimate I can not turn my back on my poly right now his world is a living hell at this moment . Our kids are close his children have come to rely on me as much as my children on him we are that close.

You can disengage without cutting all ties with him and the children. Perhaps a poly-friendly counselor could give you some good advice on doing so, help you figure out what you should be focusing on and make a plan so you don't end up in a similar situation in the future (especially concerning the kids involved).

What you say makes sense to me and I could have placed the blame at her feet except for the email this morning which tells me he is part to blame for feeding her and fueling the fire. But I am to the point of telling him he may have to cut her lose and just be there for the fall out.

Let's say your lover tells you that your husband is a worthless piece of shit and you don't need to bother with STI testing or safer sex practices anymore. Isn't it your fault if you choose to believe your lover and then act on his opinions?

IMO, this is the same situation. This woman can put up with her dom degrading her "friends/loves" and allow her own thoughts and actions to be influenced OR she can refuse to listen to it and walk away from this guy who's insulting the people she supposedly cares about.

Of course this dom sounds like a bad guy, I'm not denying that at all. And he's certainly responsible for disrespecting the group and what he said in the email/your other communications with him...all of that is great evidence of what an ass he is, I'm sure. But SHE is choosing to carry on with this bad guy, and who she associates with is absolutely her responsibility.

Healthy people see bad behavior/traits and move themselves away from it. It sounds like she's had ample opportunity to remove herself from the bad guy/relationship, and has simply chosen not to. New relationship energy, sub frenzy, or not, it doesn't sound like any of you would put up with a lover disrespecting your longstanding relationships, so why would you three give this woman any kind of pass on associating with a guy who's repeatedly disrespected all of you? Doesn't she deserve all the credit for choosing a loser, standing by him while he degrades her loved ones and disregarding the agreements she made over and over? Similarly, wouldn't you give her the credit if she took responsibility for her bad behavior and did her best to restore the group's trust in her, or would the credit for that go to her dom?

These are rhetorical questions, but the sooner you can assess the situation honestly, the better, IMO. It's pretty hard to choose actions and figure out how to avoid similar pitfalls in the future without seeing the reality.

unfortunately, it isn't your job to correct this. It is hers. I can not say this is what you should do. This is what I would do. I would go to her and tell her you are sorry for the way this is ending but that you have decided that this is no longer healthy and safe...that trust has been violated and all relationships are built on trust. Wish her happiness give her a hug and then you turn and walk away. Then it becomes an issue between her and her husband. Simplify the issue. Support the husband but don't meddle or enable.

The problem with "opening lines of communication" is that it requires 2 participants. If one closes down, you are talking to air.

Excellent advice, CB. Autymn, you'd do well to follow this.

 

[phelon]

Well, for my 2 cents: First, She obviously has a possessive Dom who does not respect her previous commitments but wishes to control all of her life including the removal of old ties. She should put a stop to it, but she hasn't, and this dom is obviously abusing the relationship, that part because of the dishonesty and jelousy is an affair, and not part of the existing poly structure.

I would recommend you and her husband both do some research on D/S and with luck perhaps get her to read and learn more on how a REAL D/S relationship works.

Good luck.

 

[your_vice]

As hard as it might be to admit, the blame lies with this woman. She's the one who picked a bad partner, lied about all sorts of things, didn't enforce the group's agreements, continued to see her dom after her husband vetoed the relationship and is now allowing her outside relationship to negatively impact her marriage and prior relationships. Her bad judgment, dishonesty and character flaws aren't the result of her dom or D/s relationship, they're just more apparent since she's been in that relationship. Given time, the same problems likely would have come to light in her relationship with her husband, your husband or someone else.

That's the thing sweetie, you -can't- make her listen. She's chosen her road, you have to just let her travel on it.

I agree with both these posts. This woman has violated your trust as polys and also her husband's by continuing to see this dom despite him telling her not to. I understand this woman has kids but their wellbeing and stability clearly isn't her first concern either. If they were, she would be more concerned with her primary relationship.

As hard as it is, I'd suggest to her husband that he limit the damage she's doing by treating him so badly (maybe even in front of the kids, which is also selfish and damaging) and disregarding his need to be able to trust her and who she plays with. At this stage, I think you should suggest they take a break from each other. He should not have to condone this situation the way he is. If he continues to stick around while she shits on his trust and feelings, she'll never be forced to address her own behaviour. He should stop sleeping with her if he hasn't already (protected or not) because sex should be an expression of love and while things are so bad, she doesn't deserve this from him. A trial separation may be the only wake-up call that will get through to this woman how much her primary relationship, with the father of her children, is in jeopardy. Even if she decides to walk or have him move out, it will give her the space she needs to learn from her mistakes and see this dom guy for what he truly is. Also, her husband will find it easier perhaps to reconcile things when/if her relationship with the dom ends if she hasn't been under his nose, rubbing his face in it the whole time. He's well within his rights to divorce her but as he seems not to want it to come to that, a temporary separation until she comes to her senses might be the best way to shield himself and their kids from the fallout.

But as others have said, these choices lie with him, not with you or your husband. You've made it clear how you feel about her behaviour and that's all you can really do, other than be there for him.

 

[mark_j]

I'm going to do this a breakdown of events..While others have put forth some excellent ideas on how to handle this, maybe my analysis will provide a way to either see what went wrong or as a checklist for the future.

Let me preface this by saying that from what you have said about this, In my opinion this poly relationship is pretty much doomed. Your focus should be your primary relationship with your husband. As unfortunate as the events have turned out, continuing this relationship in any other form other than casual non-sexual acquaintances is poison.

Okay let me start by defining the relationship.
Husband and I have been married a very long time he travels constantly no biggie we are both open to safe and loving relationships outside the marriage as long as everyone is kewl with it and honest about it.

Two years ago we found another couple like us she travels alot he doesn't. The poly relationship grew between all four of us and things were great for about a year and a half. Okay my hubby travels out of state for work my poly and I maintain our relationship my hubby finds friends where he is working everything is going great. My poly's wife decides she wants another lover no problem we all agree that it's a great idea for her.

At this point you had all agreed on basic ground rules. As long as it was open and honest then there should not be a problem. As long as all parties remember where the primary relationship lies.

Then she starts being dishonest about her new relationship didn't know why at first and caused alot of upset but then she came clean that her new poly was a dom master and she didn't know how we would react to that. Our biggest upset was that she didn't tell any of us what she was doing and that she had another lover and no offense but since we all share each others partners at one point or another I didn't really feel like sleeping with a total stranger and voiced my opinion on that.

Red flag number one. She was being dishonest not only to the group but to her husband as well.

Anyways got it worked out met her new lover things are going great until my Poly asked her lover for proof of std checks and what not then things got ugly. Now I don't know about everyone else but the four of us were very honest and upfront about past lovers and medical history blah blah blah I didn't find it inconceivable that my poly would ask for that I also would not have taken offense safety first right? Well we didn't get past that and my Poly threw a husband card down on his wife that if her new lover couldn't be honest then he didn't want her to see him.

As he had the right to do. Remember, she broke a cardinal rule here.

She wasn't honest about whom she was seeing. While this may have been reconciled, his refusal to provide authentication of his health status compounded the problem. Husband had full rights to nix her relationship.

You can guess where that went my poly's wife freaked out and told her hubby if she couldn't see whom she wanted to then he wasn't allowed to see me. It's been constant drama since.

Yup. Red flag two.

We have all backed off the intimate part of the relationship until or if everyone is secure again.

A wise idea.

Her dom master lover she is still seeing him and still his friend but he is encouraging her to do dishonest things and it's affecting everyone. He sent me an email this morning told me how much he despised me and my hubby and her husband and informed me that he told her she was a fool for putting up with all of us and he called us all trash.

At this point I would seriously consider washing my hands of this whole relationship. This guy doesn't respect you, your husband or her husband and would have no intention to even try to understand. You all would be talking to a brick wall at this point as long as she insists on having this person around.

Well this stung a lil bit as recently she has been deliberately starting fights with everyone and really just being nasty to her husband and has threatened to move out. We the trio of us myself my husband and her husband are at a loss this man is not good for her and she is causing irrevocable damage to her marriage and we are not sure what to do.

It is out of you and your husbands hands at this point. It isn't your job to fix this. It is her and her husbands.

Her husband is at wits end and is ready to walk. All of our friendships are on thin ice and it's we believe because of this man she is seeing. Now I know Poly's are not supposed to interfere in the primary relationship but it's affecting everyone we have close family kids friends and all of them are affected by this outside relationship.

Again, it is not your problem to fix. Unfortunate as it is that kids and others are involved, this is clearly a case of RUN don't walk away from this. Until this situation is resolved, it is not worth the emotional and physical stress. As selfish as it may seem, you and your family are the important ones here, not them.

We have tried to talk to her but she is not being reasonable at this point and every subject is put on the defense and we are all against her.........

There is really nothing you can do. She has made these decisions to be with this man and now she has to live with it.

So I am looking for any suggestion thought idea that may help ???

Cut your losses and walk away. No poly relationship is worth it if it causes the amount and type of stress this one seems to be. That is cold and hard I know but I would take the course of self preservation of your family. You can't fix this if her marriage is broken.

 

[coastal-boy]

let her read this thread...it is rare that you ever find responses that come to the same conclusion 100% of the time.