Angeline
Poet Chick
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Posts
- 27,339
This is my thread for workshopping poems. It's a place to get and give critique on your poems. We can learn from each other here and help each other be better poets. Everyone is welcome, but if you want to participate you need to agree to go by the rules. Don't worry, there aren't many. 
Here they are:
1. This thread is about poems. I don't care if you banter; hell, I hijack my own threads with regularity, but try to stick to the poems as much as possible.
2. Be kind. Don't make generalizations about the quality of a poem unless you can back them up with specific examples. Honesty is best, but be respectful. Everyone here is a grownup. We don't need tough love--we all have parents already; we need kind objectivity. If you can't understand that, then this thread isn't for you. If you simply want to argue or prove what you know about poetry, you don't belong here. If you want to learn and help each other and feel good about it in the process, you've come to the right place. Everyone who can live with that is welcome. Everyone.
3. You must give feedback in order to get it. This is the big one. You can't get critique here if you don't give it. If you post a poem in this thread for feedback, it constitutes an agreement on your part to comment on two other poems by two other poets. Ok? For every poem you post, you must comment on two other poems.
4. Follow the guidelines for evaluating what you read. We need a common understanding of how we are judging each other. I'm judging everything I read here--form or free verse--by the same standard. I'm not going to give short shrift to everyone except my "pals" and I expect the same from you. Here is the "rubric" (or guideline) I'd like us all to use.
Think about the following elements when you review a poem here:
_____a. Theme: Can you tell what the poem is supposed to be about? It might be a "story" or just present a series of images, but a good poem communicates an essence of something with clarity. A great poem communicates it with precision. It uses all the right words to say what the poet wants to convey. A weak poem doesn't communicate a theme very well (or at all). There can be various reasons why, but its sum effect is to leave the reader confused as to what it's about (i.e., you don't get anything from reading it). Try to judge whether there is an effective theme being communicated in the poems you review here. If you think not, explain why specifically.
_____b. Structure: Does the form of the poem, the way it is constructed from line to line help or hinder achieving its theme? If you think the structure is problematic, explain why. Are the lines broken in a way that you find confusing? In what way would you rearrange them to make it better? Is the poem cohesive? That is, can the poet carry a tone or "voice" through to the last line or not? If the tone (or voice) changes, are the transitions from one part to the next effective or not? If you think not, how specifically would you make it better?
_____c. Word Choice: Has the poet chosen the best possible words to convey the images and, overall, the theme? Do you think the poem relies on cliche? Does the poem use poetic devices (like image and metaphor) well or not? If not, how would you change it so that it does? Give specific suggestions.
_____d. Mechanics: Mechanics are spelling, grammar and punctuation. Good poems don't have errors. Period. If you don't want to correct your errors to make your poem better because you don't care or because it's "art" or whatever, I'm the wrong person to give you feedback. Don't feel you need to spend a lot of time pointing out every missing comma or spelling error, but if you feel the poem you're reviewing needs a good cleanup, point it out. If someone points it out to you, be grateful they did. If you can suggest resources that you think will help, do so.
5. Be appreciative. You aren't bound to take anyone's suggestions--it's your poem after all--but recognize that it takes time and effort to give this sort of review. Thank you is a good thing. By the same token, if someone doesn't take your suggestions, don't take it personally. Maybe you didn't understand, maybe they found a better way, who knows?
You don't have to comment on every one of these things, but obviously the more you can say, the better. Try to comment on at least two or three of the points in the rubric if you feel you can. I really think it will help to have a common understanding of what and how we are evaluating each other's poems.
That's it. We'll just help each other and try to improve our poems. I'll do the best I can, but I'm no expert, and where forms are concerned be aware that I know some not at all and may not feel qualified to comment on whether you met the requirement of the form. Also, I doubt I'll be able to do more than a few reviews a week because I'm pretty busy, but that's good because everyone needs experience at this sort of critiquing. It's a good thing to practice.
Otherwise you're on the honor system to do the right thing and make this experiment work.
Now we need two volunteers to post a poem each and get us started.
Here they are:
1. This thread is about poems. I don't care if you banter; hell, I hijack my own threads with regularity, but try to stick to the poems as much as possible.
2. Be kind. Don't make generalizations about the quality of a poem unless you can back them up with specific examples. Honesty is best, but be respectful. Everyone here is a grownup. We don't need tough love--we all have parents already; we need kind objectivity. If you can't understand that, then this thread isn't for you. If you simply want to argue or prove what you know about poetry, you don't belong here. If you want to learn and help each other and feel good about it in the process, you've come to the right place. Everyone who can live with that is welcome. Everyone.
3. You must give feedback in order to get it. This is the big one. You can't get critique here if you don't give it. If you post a poem in this thread for feedback, it constitutes an agreement on your part to comment on two other poems by two other poets. Ok? For every poem you post, you must comment on two other poems.
4. Follow the guidelines for evaluating what you read. We need a common understanding of how we are judging each other. I'm judging everything I read here--form or free verse--by the same standard. I'm not going to give short shrift to everyone except my "pals" and I expect the same from you. Here is the "rubric" (or guideline) I'd like us all to use.
Poetry Workshop Rubric
Think about the following elements when you review a poem here:
_____a. Theme: Can you tell what the poem is supposed to be about? It might be a "story" or just present a series of images, but a good poem communicates an essence of something with clarity. A great poem communicates it with precision. It uses all the right words to say what the poet wants to convey. A weak poem doesn't communicate a theme very well (or at all). There can be various reasons why, but its sum effect is to leave the reader confused as to what it's about (i.e., you don't get anything from reading it). Try to judge whether there is an effective theme being communicated in the poems you review here. If you think not, explain why specifically.
_____b. Structure: Does the form of the poem, the way it is constructed from line to line help or hinder achieving its theme? If you think the structure is problematic, explain why. Are the lines broken in a way that you find confusing? In what way would you rearrange them to make it better? Is the poem cohesive? That is, can the poet carry a tone or "voice" through to the last line or not? If the tone (or voice) changes, are the transitions from one part to the next effective or not? If you think not, how specifically would you make it better?
_____c. Word Choice: Has the poet chosen the best possible words to convey the images and, overall, the theme? Do you think the poem relies on cliche? Does the poem use poetic devices (like image and metaphor) well or not? If not, how would you change it so that it does? Give specific suggestions.
_____d. Mechanics: Mechanics are spelling, grammar and punctuation. Good poems don't have errors. Period. If you don't want to correct your errors to make your poem better because you don't care or because it's "art" or whatever, I'm the wrong person to give you feedback. Don't feel you need to spend a lot of time pointing out every missing comma or spelling error, but if you feel the poem you're reviewing needs a good cleanup, point it out. If someone points it out to you, be grateful they did. If you can suggest resources that you think will help, do so.
5. Be appreciative. You aren't bound to take anyone's suggestions--it's your poem after all--but recognize that it takes time and effort to give this sort of review. Thank you is a good thing. By the same token, if someone doesn't take your suggestions, don't take it personally. Maybe you didn't understand, maybe they found a better way, who knows?
You don't have to comment on every one of these things, but obviously the more you can say, the better. Try to comment on at least two or three of the points in the rubric if you feel you can. I really think it will help to have a common understanding of what and how we are evaluating each other's poems.
That's it. We'll just help each other and try to improve our poems. I'll do the best I can, but I'm no expert, and where forms are concerned be aware that I know some not at all and may not feel qualified to comment on whether you met the requirement of the form. Also, I doubt I'll be able to do more than a few reviews a week because I'm pretty busy, but that's good because everyone needs experience at this sort of critiquing. It's a good thing to practice.
Otherwise you're on the honor system to do the right thing and make this experiment work.
Now we need two volunteers to post a poem each and get us started.
