Poetry Discussion Circle - what say ye?

[Lauren Hynde]

This is an idea that some of us have been brewing and discussing backstage for a few days - its seed came from a comment made by wildsweetone on The new number one thread. I was going to wait until the end of the week, but there were several mentions to something similar on Angeline's Poetry Workshop, and the board's climate seems favourable to it right now, so...

How would you feel about the creation of a sub-forum of the Poetry Feedback & Discussion board, a sub-forum that could be for poetry what the Story Discussion Circle is to stories: a venue for focused critique of specific poems?

This would be a sub-forum exclusively for critique, without distractions, but as inclusive as possible, with a set of rules similar to those laid by Angeline on her thread - and of those I would emphasize the need to make comments in order to receive them.

The biggest difference would be that in this sub-forum, as happens on the SDC, we would all focus on one poem (or collection of closely related poems) at a time. Each of them would be on its own individual thread where everyone would be able to leave comments and critiques, respond to any specific questions made by the author, and truly discuss the poem. Only when this discussion is exhausted - depending on the always-fluctuation levels of participation, it could be 1 day or 1 week - would we move on to the next poem on a new thread.

These are all ideas in progress, so feel free to contribute any others if you see room for improvement!

Also, of course, this new sub-forum would have no bearing on the way things are conducted on the Poetry Feedback & Discussion board. All current and future critique and workshop threads would continue to function as usual.

 

[wildsweetone]

great, blame me.


i like the idea... but i also like the idea of having a separate forum for all the poetry focused threads.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

... i also like the idea of having a separate forum for all the poetry focused threads.

Yeah, and maybe we could name it Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum.

 

[Rybka]

. . .

How would you feel about the creation of a sub-forum of the Poetry Feedback & Discussion board, a sub-forum that could be for poetry what the Story Discussion Circle is to stories: a venue for focused critique of specific poems?

This would be a sub-forum exclusively for critique, without distractions, but as inclusive as possible, with a set of rules similar to those laid by Angeline on her thread - and of those I would emphasize the need to make comments in order to receive them.

The biggest difference would be that in this sub-forum, as happens on the SDC, we would all focus on one poem (or collection of closely related poems) at a time. Each of them would be on its own individual thread where everyone would be able to leave comments and critiques, respond to any specific questions made by the author, and truly discuss the poem. Only when this discussion is exhausted - depending on the always-fluctuation levels of participation, it could be 1 day or 1 week - would we move on to the next poem on a new thread.

These are all ideas in progress, so feel free to contribute any others if you see room for improvement!
. . .

I'm all for it,with the suggestion that more than one poem can be discussed at a time, as long as each has its own thread, there should be little conflict. - If someone is away for awhile that should not preclude responding to an earlier poem. And once I have commented on one poem, why should I have to wait a week to comment on another?

I say, give each poem its own thread and lets see how that works. You can always add more rules later, if needed! (JMO)

 

[wildsweetone]

Lauren -
Yeah, and maybe we could name it Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum.

now there's an original thought if ever i heard one.

 

[impressive]

I'm all for it,with the suggestion that more than one poem can be discussed at a time, as long as each has its own thread, there should be little conflict. - If someone is away for awhile that should not preclude responding to an earlier poem. And once I have commented on one poem, why should I have to wait a week to comment on another?

I say, give each poem its own thread and lets see how that works. You can always add more rules later, if needed! (JMO)

I agree.

 

[annaswirls]

Excellent idea!

It would also be a great way for new poets here to Lit to become more involved right away. Sometimes people come in, ask for feedback and then leave. This way they would be required to participate in a two way street.

This is how many poetry discussion forums are run.

Would there be different levels of critique? Or would the poets designate that in their thread title?

For example, some people do not want to give or get extensive critiques while others do, etc.



Would the Thin Skinned and Ange's new thread be put in this forum?

thanks!

as

 

[bogusbrig]

It sounds good to me. I find so many threads on feedback where a good discussion has started and has drifted into idle chit chat, that it seems perverse to comment on the serious points the thread started out with. I find I often come here only to leave after a couple of minutes because there is nothing serious to comment on. If this idea could maintain the integrity of a thread and remain focused on poetry, then I'm for it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I'm all for it,with the suggestion that more than one poem can be discussed at a time, as long as each has its own thread, there should be little conflict. - If someone is away for awhile that should not preclude responding to an earlier poem. And once I have commented on one poem, why should I have to wait a week to comment on another?

I say, give each poem its own thread and lets see how that works. You can always add more rules later, if needed! (JMO)

OK. What about if, regardless of participation level, we have a new poem/thread each day? This would reduce waiting time, and still give each poem a minimum amount of time in the spotlight to get a decent in-depth discussion going.

 

[annaswirls]

I like the idea of having as many threads open as possible. Also the 2 review to one post idea is important. I have seen this work very nicely.

People could even choose to put polls with their poems and ask people to vote (anon or not! )

Hopefully people would Edit their poem as it goes in FIRST post in a thread, leaving all former versions below. They should change the TITLE of the thread (My lovely poem REVISION 3) so people could come back and comment on the revisions, and if visiting for the first time, would not comment on the first version if they would rather work on what is current.

 

[annaswirls]

OK. What about if, regardless of participation level, we have a new poem/thread each day? This would reduce waiting time, and still give each poem a minimum amount of time in the spotlight to get a decent in-depth discussion going.

I feel strongly that people should have to give critique to get it. You have to leave two comments before posting a new comment.


As far as rules, I think it needs to be considered:

Reviewers (and the poets) should NOT review other people's reviews. Period. Don't say "I disagree with so and so, because blah blahblah" It is VERY bad form. Just state your opinion and that is it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Would there be different levels of critique? Or would the poets designate that in their thread title?

Well, I like the way it works on the Story Discussion Circle. Each author, when submitting a story for critique, explains what they are after, and makes specific questions on which he or she would like feedback. I don't see why that system wouldn't work for us as well.

Would the Thin Skinned and Ange's new thread be put in this forum?

This part of the board would continue to work as usual, and all these threads serve different purposes in different ways, so they would remain where they are doing what they do. This Poetry Discussion Circle would only be a more focused venue for critique, it wouldn't replace all others!

 

[Rybka]

. . .
Reviewers (and the poets) should NOT review other people's reviews. Period. Don't say "I disagree with so and so, because blah blahblah" It is VERY bad form. Just state your opinion and that is it.

Not sure I agree. I see nothing wrong with building on previous comments, or disagreeing with them, as long as the second comment says why.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Not sure I agree. I see nothing wrong with building on previous comments, or disagreeing with them, as long as the second comment says why.

Yes, I think this interaction is what makes a discussion, which is something missing in most threads here.

 

[wildsweetone]

discussion may also give an uncertain poet a different perspective on their work.

 

[Tzara]

discussion may also give an uncertain poet a different perspective on their work.

Or if more than one commentator makes the same point, it may be more persuasive in making the case that the point is a valid one.

I think what Anna may have meant by her comment, though, was one reviewer merely commenting on another review--not on the poem itself. Comments of the "don't listen to them, they obviously know nothing about poetry" or "that person is just an elitist snob" type. The point is to comment on the poem being reviewed, not on a reviewer's skill (or lack of skill) as critic.

I am of two minds on whether multiple poems should be being commented upon at one time. The main reason I think limiting the number of poems being commented upon may be a good idea is that it might help insure that people actually comment on it. If there are too many from which to choose, some poems will get several comments and some few or none. This is probably natural, of course, but it would be nice to have some way of insuring all submitted work gets some reasonable set of comments. I know that that is what the "2 for 1" rule is for, but this additional qualification might help as well.

On the other hand, I agree with Rybka that sitting around waiting for something else to comment upon is a problem. If I'm in the frame of mind to try and comment on other people's work, I may as well do two or three before I go back to trying to build my own piece. I'm also frequently out of town on business, so would more likely "bunch" reviews/comments when I'm in town.

I think the sub-forum is a great idea, though. It would make finding and following things much easier.

tz

 

[PatCarrington]

what's not to like?

 

[CharleyH]

The biggest difference would be that in this sub-forum, as happens on the SDC, we would all focus on one poem (or collection of closely related poems) at a time.

I love the concept, as I said to Angeline, however, I do have a problem with people posting other poems on a thread meant for critiquing one poem at a time. Certainly, when in the SDC, I do not suddenly post a story? A critique time period would be good - 3 days or a week? But, I do believe that if any poems are posted during that time period? They should be removed as nothing but poser material because they are.

 

[Liar]

Don't wanna be the nay-sayer here but are we many enough and active enough for it?

I mean hey, it's not like the serious poetry focused treads in here are being drowned in a storm flood of banter-threads. This ain't exactly the GB. Or even the AH.

Wouldn't it just...you know...spread us thin?

 

[Angeline]

This is an idea that some of us have been brewing and discussing backstage for a few days - its seed came from a comment made by wildsweetone on The new number one thread. I was going to wait until the end of the week, but there were several mentions to something similar on Angeline's Poetry Workshop, and the board's climate seems favourable to it right now, so...

How would you feel about the creation of a sub-forum of the Poetry Feedback & Discussion board, a sub-forum that could be for poetry what the Story Discussion Circle is to stories: a venue for focused critique of specific poems?

This would be a sub-forum exclusively for critique, without distractions, but as inclusive as possible, with a set of rules similar to those laid by Angeline on her thread - and of those I would emphasize the need to make comments in order to receive them.

The biggest difference would be that in this sub-forum, as happens on the SDC, we would all focus on one poem (or collection of closely related poems) at a time. Each of them would be on its own individual thread where everyone would be able to leave comments and critiques, respond to any specific questions made by the author, and truly discuss the poem. Only when this discussion is exhausted - depending on the always-fluctuation levels of participation, it could be 1 day or 1 week - would we move on to the next poem on a new thread.

These are all ideas in progress, so feel free to contribute any others if you see room for improvement!

Also, of course, this new sub-forum would have no bearing on the way things are conducted on the Poetry Feedback & Discussion board. All current and future critique and workshop threads would continue to function as usual.

I think review is always good. We all can learn from it. I personally would not want to participate in a critique subforum unless I had a sense of what the standards for review are and that I were assured of getting equally detailed reviews if I take the time to give them.

If that is the plan--and I know it is because we've discussed it--the additional forum will work well. I know you want to keep all the critque threads here intact, too; I'm not sure how well that will work. The more of such threads you have, the fewer people I think will participate in each. There's also the possibility that certain threads will have a following of particular poets. It would be a shame if a few people always went to the workshop and another few people always went to the thin-skinned thread--and a different group participated on the subforum. I know, Lauren, that is precisely the kind of exclusivity you want to avoid. Just food for thought.

I'm not sure how you can resolve the "how many poems at a time" issue. Some forums limit the number of poems you can post for review per week. That might be a good idea. If you have too few poems overall, it will get boring waiting for reviews. If you have too many, people won't have time to critique them all. I think it's safe to assume that you won't have a huge number of people who are willing to put much time into reviewing. That's why a weekly cap on the total one can submit may be your best bet.

You also may want to consider separating out form and free verse. Some people don't feel qualified to comment on how well a poet has met the requirements of a form--or if they've deviated from them in an interesting way, and some people simple don't care for form poetry.

Just a few thoughts I had on this.

 

[champagne1982]

Or if more than one commentator makes the same point, it may be more persuasive in making the case that the point is a valid one.

I think what Anna may have meant by her comment, though, was one reviewer merely commenting on another review--not on the poem itself. Comments of the "don't listen to them, they obviously know nothing about poetry" or "that person is just an elitist snob" type. The point is to comment on the poem being reviewed, not on a reviewer's skill (or lack of skill) as critic.

I am of two minds on whether multiple poems should be being commented upon at one time. The main reason I think limiting the number of poems being commented upon may be a good idea is that it might help insure that people actually comment on it. If there are too many from which to choose, some poems will get several comments and some few or none. This is probably natural, of course, but it would be nice to have some way of insuring all submitted work gets some reasonable set of comments. I know that that is what the "2 for 1" rule is for, but this additional qualification might help as well.

On the other hand, I agree with Rybka that sitting around waiting for something else to comment upon is a problem. If I'm in the frame of mind to try and comment on other people's work, I may as well do two or three before I go back to trying to build my own piece. I'm also frequently out of town on business, so would more likely "bunch" reviews/comments when I'm in town.

I think the sub-forum is a great idea, though. It would make finding and following things much easier.

tz

tazara makes some very good points here, but I must disagree with both his and Rybka's concerns, regarding waiting for another thread. If boredom sets in while you wait for poems to review, you could always return and participate in the workshop threads or the other, not so intensive discussions here on the main board.
A circle is merely a line around one corner, no one said you couldn't step out of it for a moment.

 

[Rybka]

I love the concept, as I said to Angeline, however, I do have a problem with people posting other poems on a thread meant for critiquing one poem at a time. Certainly, when in the SDC, I do not suddenly post a story? A critique time period would be good - 3 days or a week? But, I do believe that if any poems are posted during that time period? They should be removed as nothing but poser material because they are not critique

Again, I disagree. This is to be a Forum, not a thread. Each poem can have its own thread. That way moderators will only have to edit for posts off topic, and a poem can be commented on as long as it draws interest. When interest ceases it will sink down the forum until it disappears!

 

[CharleyH]

Don't wanna be the nay-sayer here but are we many enough and active enough for it?

I mean hey, it's not like the serious poetry focused treads in here are being drowned in a storm flood of banter-threads. This ain't exactly the GB. Or even the AH.

Wouldn't it just...you know...spread us thin?

Sometimes, as I have experienced, there are not good SDC stories either, and people get their backs up. There are ... like 5 - 8 authors who consistantly post to SDC. I know there are at the very least that many who post on PB. I also realise that any poet would want a critique, but mst show their strength for it by critiquing.

I do take issue on your sarcasm.

 

[CharleyH]

Again, I disagree. This is to be a Forum, not a thread. Each poem can have its own thread. That way moderators will only have to edit for posts off topic, and a poem can be commented on as long as it draws interest. When interest ceases it will sink down the forum until it disappears!

No need to take issue, I sometimes confuse thread and forum. Yet, I dont see the point of several poems to pick and choose to critique? One at a time, I say ... unless you are impatient and can't hold back from posting a poem instead of critiquing? Each poem has a thread after its run, and to that I agree. AFTER ITS RUN.

 

[sandspike]

Is this a dream?

Everyone has a good point, but only so many pins have room on
a cushion. I've seen a number of threads here get carried away
from their original start by long conversations about nothing on
the thread. Call it a forum or thread, it has to stay on course.
Ang. is correct in one thing. I would split up types of poetry.
I don't know a soul here who has mastered them all. Many of
you have the talent and knowledge to really teach someone.
I think we all need to step back and look at a poem and ask...
I'm the teacher?...or should I keep my two cents to myself?

1. keep out the B.S.
2. if you have an opinion, have a reason for it
3. don't stall a thread w/ crap you could PM
4. Go read 1 and 3 again

I'm old and skeptical.