Poetry Bootcamp

[KillerMuffin]

I had this KillerCool idea. Most of us know jack shit about peotry beyond a few choice words and how to spout on and on about things like rhyme, feel, rhythm, angst, cliche. Some of us know tons about poetry and can practically write a dissertation comparing and contrasting a Spencerian Sonnet and a Keatsian Sonnet.

We have Recruits and we have Drill Instructors. If they volunteer.

The idea is this:

Those in the know volunteer to be the Drill Sergeants and the rest of us line up for knowledge. The thread begins with one style of poem, say the sonnet for instance, and the instructors give a brief lesson and discussion on the sonnet. Q&A can happen, of course, links to examples, personal examples, whatever can be thrown in. Then the recruits, instructors too!, all write a sonnet for peer critique.

No time constraints, no horrible commitment beyond discussion and writing one poem. No competition.

How does that sound?

 

[Ded Poet]

I love it! Where do I sign up? ( I would be in boot camp, as my pitiful attempt at a sonnet makes
clear).

Great idea, KM.

DP

 

[WickedEve]

I'm so excited that I went out and got a crew cut and bought fatigues. So now that I look this way, I'll have plenty of lonely nights for writing poetry.

Count me in!

 

[Vailyn]

LoL! Count me in, too! Sounds like fun. It's always more interesting to learn about something with others than on your own. That way people don't think your crazy by answering your own questions! <winks>

Are we gonna start w/ a sonnet?

 

[perks]

I only learned how to write a haiku, and that was from three threads here, otherwise I'm winging it. Structure me drill sergeaaant!!!

perks

 

[daughter]

No delusion

Sorry, folks. Being opinionated is not synonymous with expertise. I have opinions and limited knowledge, I'll sign up for camp. Now, who's going to run it?

Peace,

daughter

 

[WriterDom]

Re: No delusion

Sorry, folks. Being opinionated is not synonymous with expertise. I have opinions and limited knowledge, I'll sign up for camp. Now, who's going to run it?

CraZy would be my choice. I don't how busy she is right now. Or if she'd be willing to do it. But someone could PM her and ask.

 

[tigerjen]

Count me in........like WickedEve, I went out and got
my battle fatigues!!! Seriously, I think this is a cool
idea......and with "no time constraints" as KM said......I think
we all could learn from each other with this idea

Lined up, and signed up........!

tigerjen

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Great Idea KM

You know me,
I like to watch. But if you need help getting started The italian and english are a good place to start. Heres a push if you like.

From biki’s sonnet page one of the best in my opinion.

Basically speaking any 14 line poem can be called a sonnet and for this reason this reason alone there are many forms. Originating in Italy, the sonnet has and is still regarded as the most popular form of love poetry.

ITALIAN SONNET FORMS
Originally, a sonnet was simply a "little song," a short lyric poem with no specifically defined structure. Of the more precisely defined variations of the form that we have today, the oldest is the Italian Sonnet, also known as the Petrarchan Sonnet, after its creator, Petrarch.
It had no set structure originally and it was only after it's adoption by the English that defined the Italian Sonnet to be of Iambic pentameter and consist of an octave, or 8-line stanza, followed by a sestet, or 6-line stanza.
The octave sets up a situation upon which the sestet comments. Alternatively, the octave makes a statement, the sestet a counterstatement as in the following example by John Milton:

When I Consider How My Light Is Spent

(A) When I consider how my light is spent
(B) Ere half my days, in this dark world and wide,
(B) And that one talent which is death to hide
(A) Lodged with me useless, though my soul more bent
(A) To serve therewith my Maker, and present
(B) My true account, lest he returning chide;
(B) "Doth God exact day-labor, light denied?"
(A) I fondly ask; but Patience to prevent

(1) That murmur, soon replies, "God doth not need[/color]
(2) Either man's work or his own gifts; who best
(3) Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
(1 )Is kingly. Thousands at his bidding speed[/color]
(2) And post o'er land and ocean without rest:
(3) They also serve who only stand and wait."

There are three basic Italian Sonnet Forms;
1. Italian. 2, Sicilian and 3 Sonetto Rispetto. The difference is in the octave.The octave is constructed of two quatrains with a rhyming scheme of, A. B. B. A. and again , A. B. B. A.for the Italian Octave, and . , A. B. B. A.. then c.d.d.c. for the Sicilian. However the Sonetto Rispetto (or Ottava Rima Octave) is very different and has a rhyming scheme of a.b.a.b.a.b.c.c.

Each of these forms can also have a choice of two sestets,(6 line second stanza) Italian and Sicilian:
The Italian sestet(6 line second stanza) consists of two tercets (of 3 lines) with the rhyme scheme.. 1.2.3. , 1.2.3. The Sicilian Sestet, has a rhyme scheme. .1.2.1.2.1.2.

ENGLISH (SHAKESPEARIAN) SONNET
Gradually the Italian sonnet pattern was changed and since Shakespeare attained fame for the greatest poems of this modified type his name has often been given to the English form.
Instead of an octave and a sestet, a Shakespearian sonnet has three quatrains (4 line stanza) a.b.a.b. . c.d.c.d. . .e.f.e.f. and a rhymed couplet. g.g.

Sonnet LXV
(a) Since brass, nor stone, nor earth, nor boundless sea
(b) But sad mortality o’er-sways their power,
(a) How with this rage shall beauty hold a plea,
(b) Whose action is no stronger than a flower?

(c )how shall summer’s honey breath hold out,
(d) Against the wreckful siege of battering days,
(c) When rocks impregnable are not so stout,
(d) Nor gates of steel so strong, but Time decays?

(e) O fearful meditation! Where alack,
(f )Shall Time’s best jewel from Times chest lie hid?
(e) Or what strong hand can hold his swift foot back?
(f) Or who his spoil of beauty can forbid?

(g) O, none unless this miracle have might,
(g)That in black ink my love may still shine bright.

Have fun.

U.P.

 

[mskittykatt]

beautiful idea! i can't wait till i have the time to spend later this evening to wade through U.P.'s post!

 

[KatPurrs]

I certainly don't know jack, but I know HOMER PINDAR

I contacted Homer Pindar to see if he would be interested in becoming one of the Drill Sargeants. He keeps a very low profile here, so to fix that, I'm posting a link to his Profile Page. Do check out his work, and if you agree with me, send him an invitation!

He has written sonnets, sestets, cinquains, haiku, ghazals, pantoums, acrostics, etc. He would be a great addition to our camp!

HOMER PINDAR'S POETRY www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=51502

*scampering off to the local recruiting office*

got my spit, got my shine, got my ditty bag.....

 

[Whispersecret]

Oh, hell, I already have a sonnet (that KM didn't like) ready. I'm sure that my asking her to comment on it prompted her idea. I'm very tempted to join in, but worry that time spent writing poetry will be time NOT spent on my prose, which is my main focus. Right now I'm having a hard time working up motivation to write prose, and the poetry fling (yeah, that sonnet) is an excuse to procrastinate.

So, I guess that means I'm a maybe.

 

[HomerPindar]

Re: I certainly don't know jack, but I know HOMER PINDAR

I contacted Homer Pindar to see if he would be interested in becoming one of the Drill Sargeants. He keeps a very low profile here, so to fix that, I'm posting a link to his Profile Page. Do check out his work, and if you agree with me, send him an invitation!

He has written sonnets, sestets, cinquains, haiku, ghazals, pantoums, acrostics, etc. He would be a great addition to our camp!

Ain't she grand... everyone's gotta love their biggest fan. I'd be both happy and flattered to answer any questions folks have on poetry if they think my information is worth it.

Oh, and I loved the lesson on sonnet, perfect stuff... Does this mean we're on to writing a sonnet? That sounded like the idea, but I've not seen any yet... so, if I am to be a drill sargent I need two things:

1: a sonnet from folks, the instructions and history are great, so read up and go at it.

2: options on the uniforms of the trainees

Now, I'm off to write a sonnet... no reason I shouldn't follow the lesson plans.

I'd also like to suggest folks specify how it is their poem fits the form, or how you are tweaking it if you do. for example, this here sonnet is in nine sylable lines (I suck at getting the stresses right for iambic pantaminter). I've also used a block ryhming scheme, four A's, four B's, four C's and two D's. follow that folks? alright then, my sonnet for today:

To accomidate such a beauty
I had to change all reality
my eyes no longer know all I see
and there is no telling what will be
so like a dream it has all become
erotic, sporadic, wonderful one
though I do not know what's to be done
I shall enjoy it all and then some
and the first enjoyment I would take
is in your satisfaction I'd make
pleasing you tonight and when you wake
so all other lovers you'd foresake
yet with all to see how will I know
you are the one with which I should go?

HomerPindar

 

[TheDR4KE]

my sonnet

Oh, and I loved the lesson on sonnet, perfect stuff... Does this mean we're on to writing a sonnet? That sounded like the idea, but I've not seen any yet... so, if I am to be a drill sargent I need two things:

1: a sonnet from folks, the instructions and history are great, so read up and go at it.

Yes Sir. ;-)


My Succubus

Alone at night in bed, the hour is late.
I sweat, I turn, in sheets entangled tight.
'tis Morpheus I seek as my bedmate,
but thou it is who keeps me up this night.
Thy memory evokes a primal lust,
but thy effect on me, thy hold, I fear.
At last I fall asleep with mind steadfast:
That I must walk away from thee is clear.
But bodies work, even while minds do not,
and dwell on need, and send their urge upstream.
Thus flooded with thy taste I toss distraught
'til all I do is drink of thee in dream.
The night's long dark weakens resolve to wean
from thee, who gives me strength: fiend caffeine.

I'd also like to suggest folks specify how it is their poem fits the form, or how you are tweaking it if you do.

It is a Shakespearean sonnet, with the classic abab cdcd efef gg (except that it's efef ff) scheme and iambic pentameter.

If you pronounce caffeine as two syllables, replace the last line with
from thee, who gives me strength: my fiend caffeine.


The breakdown of the three quatrains is:
1 - can't fall asleep
2 - vow a breakup
3 - asleep, the need grows stronger again
until
4 - the poem is closed with the traditionally epigramatic couplet, revealing the twist that it is not a woman, but coffee that troubles me.

Drake

 

[Whispersecret]

Dr4ke, really liked your sonnet, especially the surprise ending. The archaic language, which worked beautifully, really sucked me into thinking it was a woman. One thing...is it humanly possible to pronounce "caffeine" with anything other than two syllables?

I thought you were pushing the rhythm with "bedmate," a word that I pronounce with the accent on the first syllable. Same with "steadfast" and "even."

I stumbled on line five. I pronounce "memory" as two syllables, but then realized you wanted three, which is fine.

Line fourteen presented some real trouble for me with the word "weakens." "Bedmate" and "steadfast" I can deal with, but I just cannot make myself say "weakens."

My favorite line was "But bodies work, even while minds do not." Bodies work. That to me sounds really Shakespearian! Not that I'm any expert.


Here's mine.

My Debt To A Gay Man

It was, I thought, a graceless, choking chore,
A spousal obligation duly paid,
The drowning rush of sperm I so abhorred
My mouth, a glut of bitter disarray.
By chance I found a website indiscreet,
A source of racy wisdom, swiftly read:
…Descend with sheath of lips and tongue and teeth
To lavish ‘pon the spicy swollen head…
So thus I sought my power, pursued the thrill,
Commanded senseless, slack-jawed male daze!
My inner doubt resolved with newfound skill,
His lethargy, a soundless accolade.
I’m free from prudish notions obsolete,
The circle of Eve’s heritage complete.

Mine is also a Shakespearean sonnet, abab, cdcd, efef, gg, iambic pentameter.

Quatrain 1 - Dislike for giving head
Quatrain 2 - Discovery of information
Quatrain 3 - Application of knowledge
Couplet - The result

The couplet is supposed to be something special and apart, isn't it? Some concluding statement or question, right?

(edited to add a question.)

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Iambic what?

Well, I'm back I got to thinking Iambic Pentameter is anyone’s head spinning? Here is an excellent description of what it is. Now stop procrastinating! But first…

Drake, loved your sonnet, will talk more later.

Whisper, Not much time, but I must say something now.
The first quatrain pattern did not flow smoothly; your first rhyme pattern was a bit unsteady to me.

In the second you seem to find your pacing with the pattern, and the rhythm is outstanding!

On the third, you almost keep it going but the patter (uneven rhythm) of the second line weakens the third quatrain:
"Commanded senseless, slack-jawed male daze! "
Yikes! Too much, quite more than a mouthful! Pun of course intended. For I neither spit nor swallow.

You couplet works well, I especially liked the last lines depth of implication:
"The circle of Eve’s heritage complete."

Very clever, I love the title also. My you’re just full of wit, and it appears a good student.

Hmmm now where was I? Oh yes, Iambic Pentameter no need to scour the internet troopsyour humble corporal, has done it for you. It's up to the "Sarge" from this point forward.Iambic Pentameter Here you go:

First, don't be afraid. I promise this won't hurt. Honest!
Iambic

An Iamb is a type of Foot.

A Foot is the basic unit of

Accentual-Syllabic meter.

Meter basically means structuring a line of poetry in regular and equal units of rhythm.

Accentual-Syllabic meter uses both the number of syllables and the location of stressed syllables within a Foot to structure a line.

An Iamb is a two-syllable Foot with the stress placed on the 2nd syllable, as in "New York." Notice how the second syllable is stressed more than the first?
You can find how words are accented in any dictionary, but it really shouldn't be necessary to go to such trouble; just say them out loud and listen. Often context determines which word or syllable is stressed in a foot, and you need to be aware of how your context might alter the stress in a particular foot. For example, in the sentence "I like your car," car would normally be stressed more than your. However, in "What do you mean your car?" the stress would be placed on your.

A Pentameter is a line of poetry constructed of 5 Feet, or units of rhythm. An Iambic Pentameter then is a line consisting of 5 Iambs, or two syllable Feet with the stress falling on the 2nd syllable of each foot.

Or you might say it is a 10-syllable line with the stresses beginning on the 2nd syllable and falling on every other syllable thereafter.

Here's an example, the first line of a sonnet by Edmund Spenser:
One day I wrote her name upon the strand,

Read this line aloud, and hopefully the rhythm will be apparent to you. That's Iambic Pentameter! Now was it that bad? Split your screens and spend a bit of time working on a sonnet in your favorite word processor, refer to the thread and scream "Homer" when you need help.

U.P.

 

[perks]

I am scared of this assignment. Let me finish the story competition, and I will dive into the deep end. Ugh, someone hold my hand.

perks

 

[JUDO]

Fun, but difficult

A fun puzzle, but I need more practice, practice, practice.

An English sonnett (Shakespearian):
abab cdcd efef gg

1) Sneaking to parted curtains
2) Watching the flesh reveal
3) Lust grows as love poses
4) A climb to a kiss


Forbidden Window

On night's soft cape my feet glide near to fear
Cold shapes amidst warm light her drapes contain.
Apart the cloth its tale thrust bare so near
My stare becomes a want so close to pain.

Stone's press my breasts as quick my heart does peal
Against the sill as she my love disrobes.
A flick of nails and buttons flesh reveal
A swelling breast devine as finger probes.

A graceful neck extends to Heav'n below
As silk and stays do drift past bottom's pink.
My lust thirsts deep for nectar's peach does glow
But sees me not I fear but look a wink…

Her smile says more than words could ever bear.
I climb to kiss those lips so wet, so fair.

 

[HomerPindar]

I am scared of this assignment. Let me finish the story competition, and I will dive into the deep end. Ugh, someone hold my hand.

perks

Hand holding is not a problem...

in the poetry class I've taken we've only found one constant to the sonnet, it's fourteen lines.

yes, period. That's it, fourteen lines, any number of syllables, stresses, rhyming or not -- there are plenty of examples of each of these, but each had one constant, fourteen lines.

Hey, I may be a drill sargent here, but I'm more than willing to start with the basics, so long as it gets folks writing and enjoying poetry more.

HomerPindar

 

[perks]

Okay I will start with fourteen lines....and then you will give me another thing to add to it?...another bit of structure?

What subject? does it matter?

 

[HomerPindar]

Okay I will start with fourteen lines....and then you will give me another thing to add to it?...another bit of structure?

What subject? does it matter?

hand squeezing it tottally optional

There's plenty of structure that can be added to a sonnet -- most of which has been mentioned in the previous posts along this thread. First step first though, if all the additional structure sounds tough, start with fourteen lines.

Now, if that sounds too easy, how about this, write fourteen lines with 10 syllables to each line. dont worry about stresses just yet (and if you're not sure what I mean by stresses, then it should be all the easier to ignore em ). Don't worry about the lines rhyming, there's plenty of excelent poetry out there that doesn't have any rhyming scheme whatsoever. Fourteen lines, each line (if you like) with ten syllables per line. How's that?

Oh, and on the subject...well, this is literotica... so, by all means, feel free to seduce your drill sargent.

HomerPindar

 

[TheDR4KE]

Whispersecret wrote:

Dr4ke, really liked your sonnet, especially the surprise ending. The archaic language, which worked beautifully, really sucked me into thinking it was a woman.

Thanks

One thing...is it humanly possible to pronounce "caffeine" with anything other than two syllables?

It is if you're Australian, or at least me. caf-fe-ine

I thought you were pushing the rhythm with "bedmate," a word that I pronounce with the accent on the first syllable. Same with "steadfast" and "even."

I stumbled on line five. I pronounce "memory" as two syllables, but then realized you wanted three, which is fine.

Line fourteen presented some real trouble for me with the word "weakens." "Bedmate" and "steadfast" I can deal with, but I just cannot make myself say "weakens."

All language things... Reading it out aloud the only problem I have at the moment is with "thy hold". I'll have to look at that again.

Have a listen to the attached mp3 as to how I pronounce everything in there

Drake

 

[TheDR4KE]

it's a pretty poor recording, and I read too fast to get the file length down, but you should get the idea. I'll look at how I can make a better recording to upload.

Drake

 

[perks]

hand squeezing it tottally optional

Fourteen lines, each line (if you like) with ten syllables per line. How's that?

Oh, and on the subject...well, this is literotica... so, by all means, feel free to seduce your drill sargent.

HomerPindar

YES DRILL SERGEAAAAAAAANT!!!

14 lines, 10 syllables each, seduce drill seargeant, optional handsqueezing....got it

 

[Whispersecret]

Re: Iambic what?

The first quatrain pattern did not flow smoothly; your first rhyme pattern was a bit unsteady to me.

UP, thank you so much for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to tell me what you think. As you know, I value your thoughts.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "rhyme pattern." Do you mean that I didn't stick to the abab pattern? Or are you using the word "pattern" to refer to something else?

It was, I thought, a graceless, choking chore,
A spousal obligation duly paid,
The drowning rush of sperm I so abhorred
My mouth, a glut of bitter disarray.

I will admit that "chore" and "abhorred" don't rhyme exactly. Neither do "paid" and "disarray." But I felt that they were close enough. Isn't there a term for that?

In the second you seem to find your pacing with the pattern, and the rhythm is outstanding!

Thanks for the compliment. I glow.

But, I'm further confused because you talk about pacing and pattern as if they go together. Is pacing the same as rhythm? No, I see that later in the same sentence, you show that you don't consider them the same thing. I need help understanding.

On the third, you almost keep it going but the patter (uneven rhythm) of the second line weakens the third quatrain:
"Commanded senseless, slack-jawed male daze! "
Yikes! Too much, quite more than a mouthful! Pun of course intended. For I neither spit nor swallow.

Good God. You're right. My only defense is that it's the climax of the sonnet. I must have been overwhelmed with the thrilling memory of my revelation. *cough cough*

Course, now that means I have to fix it. Grrr.

You couplet works well, I especially liked the last lines depth of implication:
"The circle of Eve’s heritage complete."

OH, thank you. Sometimes my brain comes up with something surprisingly wonderful. I wish I knew how to make it do that more often.

Very clever, I love the title also. My you’re just full of wit, and it appears a good student.

Ah, the title. KM knows my angst over that. I had originally tried to communicate the idea that the cocksucking treatise was from a gay man in the body of the poem, but damn if I couldn't find a poetic way to get that across. (Have you ever noticed that all the synonyms for homosexuals are derogatory? Also, that the word "homosexual" just won't fit in iambic pentameter???)

In my revisions I had at least ten lines that attempted to do that, all of them horrid. ("candid queen," "man who lies with other sons," "he who drinks from men undone," etc.) Finally I gave up and stuck it in the title. I'm glad it worked.