Poetry Bootcamp, week two and grunting

[KillerMuffin]

Redwave used this interesting form the other week or month or something ago. I'd certainly never heard of it before and other than daughter, no one said a single word about it, not even WTF? So let's take of our little troop of recruits into a form most of us have never heard of. The villanelle.

Here are a few links for study:

http://www.writing-world.com/poetry/villanelle.html
http://www.uni.edu/english/craft/villanelle.html
http://www.geocities.com/bikies_poetry/villanelle.html

From this page
Villanelle
A "villanelle" is a French form, reflecting this in the fact that it only has two different rhymes through the six stanzas. (Romance languages have a wealth of words with similar endings, so their poetry tends to be oriented toward making several lines rhyme together.) Lines 1 and 3 of the first stanza take turns being the final line of stanzas 2-5, and then stanza 6 (which has 4 lines) sees both of them in lines 3 and 4.

The repeating lines rhyme with each other, and the middle lines of all of the stanzas rhyme together:

A
b
B

b
a
A repeated

b
a
B repeated

b
a
A repeated

b
a
B repeated

b
a
A repeated
B repeated

E.A. Robinson's "Villanelle of Change"
1 Since Persia fell at Marathon,
2 The yellow years have gathered fast:
3 Long centuries have come and gone.

4 And yet (they say) the place will don
5 A phantom fury of the past,
6 Since Persia fell at Marathon;

7 And as of old, when Helicon
8 Trembled and swayed with rapture vast
9 (Long centuries have come and gone),

10 This ancient plain, when night comes on,
11 Shakes to a ghostly battle-blast,
12 Since Persia fell at Marathon.

13 But into soundless Acheron
14 The glory of Greek shame was cast:
15 Long centuries have come and gone,

16 The suns of Hellas have all shone,
17 The first has fallen to the last:—
18 Since Persia fell at Marathon,
19 Long centuries have come and gone.

If anyone was has anything to add that'll be helpful, please do!

The guidelines for writing your poem: try not to get frustrated and you can submit or just post it here or both.

 

[JUDO]

Oui!

Merci beaucoup, Madame Muffin. Un trés bon poste.

 

[perks]

okay Muff,

I'll give it a go. I'll probably take as much time as I did for the damn Sonnet..lol.

but I'm working on it.

perks

 

[perks]

Muff help me, damnit!!!

Okay, I need help here.

I am trying to read the poem you posted as an example, and I can't hear the cadence. It sounds all fucked up to me. Maybe it's because I've never used that structure before, but I don't get it. I can't hear it.

I've written a poem using the structure given. It sounds completely whacked to me. I keep trying to read it out loud. THis style just feels disjointed on my tongue. Is it supposed to?

 

[TheDR4KE]

Re: Muff help me, damnit!!!

Originally posted by perky_baby

I am trying to read the poem you posted as an example, and I can't hear the cadence. It sounds all fucked up to me. Maybe it's because I've never used that structure before, but I don't get it. I can't hear it.

I've written a poem using the structure given. It sounds completely whacked to me. I keep trying to read it out loud. THis style just feels disjointed on my tongue. Is it supposed to?


Hmm ... reads wonderfully to me. Maybe it's your accent? ;-)

Drake

 

[perks]

Re: Re: Muff help me, damnit!!!

Originally posted by perky_baby

I am trying to read the poem you posted as an example, and I can't hear the cadence. It sounds all fucked up to me. Maybe it's because I've never used that structure before, but I don't get it. I can't hear it.

I've written a poem using the structure given. It sounds completely whacked to me. I keep trying to read it out loud. THis style just feels disjointed on my tongue. Is it supposed to?


Hmm ... reads wonderfully to me. Maybe it's your accent? ;-)

Drake

oh drake, maybe you're just so much cooler than I......oh wait, where is your poem? hmmmmmm? put your poetry where your big fat accent is

 

[TheDR4KE]

Re: Re: Re: Muff help me, damnit!!!

oh drake, maybe you're just so much cooler than I......oh wait, where is your poem? hmmmmmm? put your poetry where your big fat accent is

LOL ... touche.

You're just lucky that I have actually seen yours already.

Villa poetry, hey. Okay, let's see then.



villanelle for perky

think you're a hot mama
but act like a brat
don't make me smack ya

just givin' me drama
flirt after our spat
think you're a hot mama

girl it's _your_ karma
you want to be slapped?
don't make me smack ya

callin all the boys papa
what'cha call girls that
think you're a hot mama?

like a personal mantra
that hot mama crap
don't make me smack ya

know you like that you diva
sexy fat ass cat
think you're a hot mama
don't make me smack ya





Drake

(edited for minor corrections)

 

[KillerMuffin]

That was tres cool Drake!

Hey, perks, try this far more famous one by Dylan Thomas:

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

[TheDR4KE]

That was tres cool Drake!

Thanks. I got inspired. Handy having a muse-duck. ;-)

Quack

Drake

 

[alltherage]

If time knows no end,
and gives us only whisps of its treasure,
why does it so easily lend.

We mold and bend,
and seek its measure,
if time knows no end.

on borrowed time we seek to send,
everlasting undying pleasure,
why does it so easily lend.

we fear to mend,
and seek our leasure,
if time knows no end.


ahhhhhhhhh this is really hard. i find myself more concerned with form than substance and that is causing a serious brain cramp. ouch!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JUDO]

Get loose!

ahhhhhhhhh this is really hard. i find myself more concerned with form than substance and that is causing a serious brain cramp. ouch!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, I always cramp up if I don't stretch first. Here, give me your hands and put your feet against mine. Now, I lean back...okay, feel that in your gluts?


- Judo

 

[JUDO]

Pour nous

KM, thanks for the Dylan Thomas exmaple. It really helps to find something you feel strongly about. This form seems to want that.


Suffer Not

by Judo ©

Suffer not, the fears of the masses.
Their barbs and arrows tear the soul asunder.
Search within and show them what class is.

Dampen fast outrage; let cool as it passes.
Review your thoughts as they begin to thunder.
Suffer not, the fears of the masses.

Tears struck at eyes, which felt the lashes
Of names meant to hurt, deigned to pull you under.
Search within and show them what class is.

Find that resolve against big wave crashes
Stands fast as rock and makes them wonder.
Suffer not, the fears of the masses.

Hordes of wit, yonder high pass is
Open for battle to begin our plunder.
Search within and show them what class is.

Stealthily, carefully, teach Dim new classes.
Let them bleed, let them feel their sharp blunder.
Suffer not, the fears of the masses.
Search within and show them what class is.

 

[REDWAVE]

Villanelles & Ballads

Yeah, the villanelle is a tough form. You're one mean drill sergeant, KM. The key is picking the two repeating lines VERY carefully, and trying to ring subtle changes on them as you go along.

A much easier form is the ballad, which usually tells a story. The rhyme scheme & metrical count is a4b3c4b3. I.e., the second and fourth lines of each stanza rhyme. The first and third lines have four feet, usally iambic (=8 syllables). The second and fourth rhyming lines each have three feet (6 syllables). A quick example:

I met a girl in Inverness
Her eyes were shining free
And every move she did make
Said that she wanted me

I rushed to meet her at the pool
Where fate and gladness meet
But little did I realize then
The glory of her treat


Some traditional ballads go on and on for over a hundred verses, as different poets added new ones over time

 

[Guest]

Re: Villanelles & Ballads

Ok, first off, thank you Daughter for sending me that reminder. Been busy and it seems a whole topic has slipped past me unawares...sigh. And it just so happens, I like villanelles...

Yeah, the villanelle is a tough form. You're one mean drill sergeant, KM. The key is picking the two repeating lines VERY carefully, and trying to ring subtle changes on them as you go along.

A much easier form is the ballad, which usually tells a story. The rhyme scheme & metrical count is a4b3c4b3. I.e., the second and fourth lines of each stanza rhyme. The first and third lines have four feet, usally iambic (=8 syllables). The second and fourth rhyming lines each have three feet (6 syllables

Holy smokes, you consider that easier? While I totally agree that success in the villanelle relies on the choice of repeating lines, I'd still consider such a choice, once made (or, more often, found) to be easier to build a poem around than counting out feet per measure. Then again, I suck at math...



HomerPindar

 

[REDWAVE]

Villanelles easy?

LOL, HP-- I definitely consider ballads easier to write than villanelles. They do present their own challenges, however. The key to writing a good ballad, I think, is telling a good story.

BTW, for the more anal-retentively inclined, here are a few more technical notes about ballads. The lines which make up the traditional ballad stanza (a4b3c4b3) are iambic tetrameter (4 iambic (unstessed, stressed) feet, 8 syllables) and iambic trimeter (3 iambic feet, 6 syllables) alternatively. The first and third lines are iambic tetrameter, and the second and fourth lines are iambic trimeter. Iambic tetrameter is probably the most natural metered verse in English. Iambic rhythms are natural in English, and 4 feet, 8 syllables seems to be the line length most people are most comfortable with. The slower iambic pentameter (10 syllables) is more formal and less natural than the short ballad lines.

JUDO & I worked up a ballad together on my ballads thread. I'd appreciate it if you'd take a look at it, HomerPindar, and tell me what you think. Which ending do you prefer? You too, KillerMuffin. Thanks.

 

[JUDO]

Bumpity-bumping this thread for those who like to be teased by structure once-in-a-while. Sometimes all it takes is a little tease to get the rusty gears grinding again.


- Judo

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Oh goody. So now I have to write a villanelle, a terzanelle, a ghazal, a kyrielle and a hypersonnet. Thanks a lot...

 

[JUDO]

Aw, pobrecita... Distracted?

 

[Cordelia]

I posted a villanelle a long time ago -- long before I realized there was a thread about it, or even that you guys discussed such things on the boards.

It is my most popular poem, for some reason, and I never mentioned it was a villanelle except to those who asked.

***************
heartstrands

Entwining my soul before it’s torn apart;
You wove your smile in words and subtle wit.
Your words unravel the fabric of my heart.

Mattering more than my feeble lines impart,
Patterns soon emerge with every bit
And entwine my soul just as it’s torn apart.

The silken, satin imagery then starts
To unweave the verbal tapestry you knit.
Your words unravel the fabric of my heart.

I let myself entangle in your art
Embroidering with stitches exquisite,
Intertwining souls that once were parts.

Wrapping words around me, you can start
My inhibitions fraying. I submit
As words unravel the fabric of my heart

Blanket us in poetry, impart
A tender line of love as I commit.
Entwine my soul before it tears apart
And let words unravel the fabric of my heart.

***************

I found this a delightful form to work with. Once you find those repeating lines, the rest of the poem falls into place. I also found that changing the repeating lines very slightly can help.

Now if I could only get the kyrielle to work....

Happily Frustrated,



Cordelia

 

[impressive]

(grind)

 

[BooMerengue]

These aren't so hard, Imp. Cordy's right- they sort of write themselves. I wrote this one awhile ago and got decent reviews. You can do it.

Come, take my hand and walk awhile with me!
I'll share the day with no one else in mind
our selfishness the gift we give for free.
You'll snuggle close as we walk towards the sea.
I'll cherish all the keepsakes that we find.
Come, take my hand and walk awhile with me.
Your shouted laugh imprints my memory
and racing fast the sunlight makes us blind!
Our selfishness the gift we give for free;
my joy in you explodes in raucous glee
when seagulls scream at us though not unkind!
Come, take my hand and walk awhile with me
as night descends we'll gather from the trees
the firelight that lets the day unwind,
our selfishness the gift we give for free.
The time we share is limited, you see.
We will not waste a glance at whats behind.
Come, take my hand and walk awhile with me
our selfishness the gift we give for free.


If anyone wants to critique, be my guest!

 

[impressive]

These aren't so hard, Imp.

The only time I've written anything that was not "merely" my passion thrown against the wall has been in response to a challenge here.

Form is a frontier I've yet to tread. I find the idea of writing poetry I don't really FEEL to be rather intimidating. I can mimic pattern -- no problem -- but I fear it will be without passion, and poetry without passion is kinda like a faked orgasm to me.

 

[BooMerengue]

Well, why can't you write in form what you feel?

write your poem and get all your feelings in

then pick a form and fit what you've written.

don't try to be religious- if a word is perfect but doesn't fit the form use it anyway. if you skip a beat, so what?

try it...

I re looked at mine. I can see now where I should have reworded some of the repeating lines though technically you're not supposed to. The poem would be better for it and thats the important thing.

 

[champagne1982]

The only time I've written anything that was not "merely" my passion thrown against the wall has been in response to a challenge here.

Form is a frontier I've yet to tread. I find the idea of writing poetry I don't really FEEL to be rather intimidating. I can mimic pattern -- no problem -- but I fear it will be without passion, and poetry without passion is kinda like a faked orgasm to me.

Some modern poets like form but hate rhyme, instead of rhyme used to define your formula, try writing a sonnet independent of end rhyme, instead, focus on the iambic pentameter and the story you choose to tell. Or maybe, instead of iams .. try the (shit I can't think what it's called, but my voice likes it) meter that goes da Dum da Dum da Dum dada.. da Dum da Dum Da Dum...

Anyway, only the Anal Retentive insist that all guidelines must be followed inside a formula, else you cannot call it what it is .. . Me? I like to play with the chemical structure and see what blows up the laboratory. A poem works for me...

 

[PatCarrington]

Me? I like to play with the chemical structure and see what blows up the laboratory. A poem works for me...

that is a wonderful way to put it.