Poems needing some nudges.

[GuiltyPleasure]

There used to be a thread where poets could post their work for comments and advice. I can't find it so here's a new one.

Is this a crazy idea to start a series like this? I should add that they are mine.

The Bar

Sometime in the fifties when hopes
were high someone with more
enthusiasm than sense named it Bar None.
The neon sign is part burnt out, B_ _ _ one ,
be one as in “join us” the barman likes to think.
The parking lot is weedy, fly blown,
pock marked by wheels and weather.
He knows the big pot holes, could drive in
blind and still get a smooth ride.
It’s not a welcoming site with its Coors
and Budweiser signs but at home in
this seedy neighbourhood of massage parlours
peopled by resigned Asian girls and the
usual suspects . Two doors up is a dilapidated venue
offering xxx videos and magazines, he knows
from experience they also have a back room
where glory holes gape hopefully.

[The balance removed for closer attention.]

 

[Tzara]

I assume these are your poems, Tess. Is that correct?

Not that that makes a difference on how I comment on them. I'm just curious.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I assume these are your poems, Tess. Is that correct?

Not that that makes a difference on how I comment on them. I'm just curious.

Yes, I got this crazy idea of writing poem about a bar and its habitues. I'm not sure it will work, this is as far as I've got.

 

[Tzara]

Yes, I got this crazy idea of writing poem about a bar and its habitues. I'm not sure it will work, this is as far as I've got.

I like the idea. I was actually thinking about a challenge thread where you'd be asked to write a series of poems on a central theme.

So here's my first pass on your first poem. All suggestions, of course, and you are the best judge of whether any of this is helpful.

The Bar

Sometime in the fifties when hopes
were high someone with more
enthusiasm than sense named it Bar None.
The neon sign is part burnt out, B_ _ _ one ,
be one as in “join us” the barman likes to think. <-- Maybe put "be one" in italics. My sewer mind would read the sign as "Bone" though.
The parking lot is weedy, fly blown, <-- Can something outside that isn't a corpse be fly-blown? This doesn't sound right to me.
{pock }marked by wheels and weather. <--"pock" adds nothing.
He knows the {big }pot{ }holes, could drive in <-- "big" is superfluous and, in the USA, it would normally be "pothole," I think. Language may vary by country, of course.
blind and still get a smooth ride.
It’s not {a }welcoming {site }with its Coors <-- Remove as extraneous.
and Budweiser signs but at home in
this {seedy }neighbourhood of massage parlours <-- "seedy" is telling us what to think, not showing us how to think.
{peopled by} resigned Asian girls and the <--Replace with "stocked with" to emphasize the women's fatalism?
usual suspects . Two doors up is a dilapidated venue <--"usual suspects" seems cliched, though I don't have a ready alternative.
offering {xxx} videos and magazines, he knows <-- "sex" videos. Be straightforward.
from experience they also have a back room
{where glory holes gape hopefully}. <-- Sorry, my sweet, but this line just sounds bad to me.

The {word} marks suggested changes or deletions. I am also suspicious of some of your line breaks, as a few of the end words seem very weak, though that depends on whether you are writing to some kind of implied meter or not. You have two lines ending with "in" and one with "the." Just something to think about.

As I said, I like the idea of this series and I think this is basically a pretty good start, despite what might seem like my negative comments. They're just comments, after all.

I'll try to move on to the next one tomorrow, if I have time.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Many thanks, T, for doing this. I agree with most of what you've said. Face to face we would discuss it - why, for instance, is the final line bad? But am very grateful.

It's an odd fact that, after a while, the eye loses judgement. In art - picture making - holding it up to a mirror gives a fresh aspect and the hidden becomes obvious but that's not practical with poetry.

In this case you are my mirror.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

The Bar

Sometime in the fifties when hopes
were high, someone with more
enthusiasm than sense named it Bar None.
The neon sign is part burnt out, B_ _ _ one ,
be one as in “join us” the barman likes to think.
The parking lot is cracked and weedy,
pock marked by wheels and weather.
He knows the potholes, could drive in
blind and still get a smooth ride.
It’s not welcoming with its Coors
and Budweiser signs but at home in
this neighbourhood of massage parlours
stocked with resigned Asian girls and the
usual suspects . Two doors up is a dilapidated venue
offering sex videos and magazines, he knows
from experience they also have a back room
where glory holes gape hopefully.

I really want this to be seen through the barman's eyes and can't think of any other way than that last crude line.

 

[Tzara]

Many thanks, T, for doing this. I agree with most of what you've said. Face to face we would discuss it - why, for instance, is the final line bad? But am very grateful.

It's an odd fact that, after a while, the eye loses judgement. In art - picture making - holding it up to a mirror gives a fresh aspect and the hidden becomes obvious but that's not practical with poetry.

In this case you are my mirror.

Well, my reaction is probably mostly to the image, which I find extremely unattractive (which may be what you are shooting for, of course), but here are some other reasons I think the line has serious problems:

• It ends the poem on an adverb, which is a very weak ending word. Adverbs are modifiers of other words, primarily verbs (in this case "gape"), so this reflects back from the end of the poem to an earlier word in the sentence. Actually, "gape" is a pretty good verb, as it carries an image, even a anthropomorphizing image, but the "hopefully" deadens that a bit.

• This kind of speaks against what I just said, but "hopefully" is also an intentional word, ascribing feeling to an action (here, the "gape" of the holes). It seems to me that the emotion should be attached to the observer (presumably the bartender) not the holes themselves. Does he think hopefully of the holes? Why? Perhaps just change the lines to more clearly reflect his feelings.

• It moves the focus of the poem from the bar to the sex shop. Actually, this isn't just the last line--almost the last third of the poem is talking about the massage parlor and the sex shop and not the bar itself, but you could probably get away with that by bring the focus back to the bar in your close. Perhaps something about how the bar resembles the other tenants of the neighborhood, or fits in with them? Since your closing focus is on illicit or semi-illicit sex, how does the bar itself reflect that?
  
  Don't know, just thinking.

Anyway, as you know, these are simply one person's comments. Your own sense of where the poem needs to go is more important, obviously, than mine.

 

[ishtat]

The Bar

Sometime in the fifties when hopes
were high, someone with more
enthusiasm than sense named it Bar None.
The neon sign is part burnt out, B_ _ _ one ,
be one as in “join us” the barman likes to think.
The parking lot is cracked and weedy,
pock marked by wheels and weather.
He knows the potholes, could drive in
blind and still get a smooth ride.
It’s not welcoming with its Coors
and Budweiser signs but at home in
this neighbourhood of massage parlours
stocked with resigned Asian girls and the
usual suspects . Two doors up is a dilapidated venue
offering sex videos and magazines, he knows
from experience they also have a back room
where glory holes gape hopefully.

I really want this to be seen through the barman's eyes and can't think of any other way than that last crude line.

I won't repeat Tzara's comments which are pretty thorough but make a couple more suggestions. Would it be worth writing in first person from say the 8th line to clarify that the view was through the barman's eyes?

line 6

The parking lot, all weeds and gone to seed (might set up the last few lines and the subsequent lines already indicate it is broken up without saying cracked)

Those last few lines maybe need to be tied back to the bar.

Two doors up, a shabby(run down) shop(store)(Dilapidated at 5 has maybe too many syllables?)
sells sex in video and magazines,
and a backroom where he(I) knows,
glory beckons at closing time.

Just a few dis-jointed thoughts.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Thank you both for the suggestions. I've dumped the glory holes and made it first person


Sometime in the fifties when hopes were high
someone with more enthusiasm than sense
named it Bar None. The neon sign is part burnt out,
B_ _ _ one, I like to think it means be one as in “join us”.
The parking lot is cracked and weedy,
pock marked by wheels and weather. {pock marked as in potholes}
I know the big craters, can drive in blind
and still get a smooth ride.
Not a welcoming site with its faded Coors
and Budweiser signs but it fits in
this neighbourhood of massage parlours
stocked with sallow, resigned Asian girls and the
usual suspects . Next door is a dilapidated store
offering videos for rent , I know
from experience they also have a back room
where the tapes on offer are X rated. {this makes the barman less repellnt}

 

[Tzara]

Thank you both for the suggestions. I've dumped the glory holes and made it first person


Sometime in the fifties when hopes were high
someone with more enthusiasm than sense
named it Bar None. The neon sign is part burnt out,
B_ _ _ one, I like to think it means be one as in “join us”.
The parking lot is cracked and weedy,
pock marked by wheels and weather. {pock marked as in potholes}
I know the big craters, can drive in blind
and still get a smooth ride.
Not a welcoming site with its faded Coors
and Budweiser signs but it fits in
this neighbourhood of massage parlours
stocked with sallow, resigned Asian girls and the
usual suspects . Next door is a dilapidated store
offering videos for rent , I know
from experience they also have a back room
where the tapes on offer are X rated. {this makes the barman less repellnt}

"Pock marked" perhaps should be "pockmarked" (see here, though that is probably American English, not Canadian).

And I am sorry if I persuaded you to make your character (the bartender) less repellent. That is surely your decision, based on what you want to show and say in your poem.

It was a repellent image, though.




Great thanks to ishtat for relieving me from being The Voice of Authority. We none of us, I think, are especially great poets (well, speaking for myself, anywho). We're all just people who love poems and want to talk about them and help each other as best we can.

So, Tess, m'dear, though I know you do not need this caveat, ignore my comments at your pleasure. As I know you will and would.

Though you could tip your skirt a bit north for me, if you would. Your thighs promise poesy.

Oh, shit. Did I say that out loud?

 

[greenmountaineer]

I actually thought "glory hole" was quite powerful, although a less direct reference to it would be my preference. ishat's example of "and a backroom where he(I) knows,//glory beckons at closing time." is a great one.

I also like the use of the first person but would suggest the same then for The Barbie and The Bard. If all three are in the first person, the poem then taken as a whole feels more like a dramatic monologue to me where 3 lonely persons are in the same place at the same time talking to themselves when they could be talking with each other.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I actually thought "glory hole" was quite powerful, although a less direct reference to it would be my preference. ishat's example of "and a backroom where he(I) knows,//glory beckons at closing time." is a great one..

I kind of liked it to in a gruff, guy kind of way. The voice is the barman so I figured he'd be familiar with such things. I might still use it.

I also like the use of the first person but would suggest the same then for The Barbie and The Bard. If all three are in the first person, the poem then taken as a whole feels more like a dramatic monologue to me where 3 lonely persons are in the same place at the same time talking to themselves when they could be talking with each other.

I started the series in the voice of the barman, it allows me to say things about his customers they wouldn't say about themselves using his voice to describe them so I think I'll keep it as it is but thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

 

[ishtat]

Something I forgot earlier. I think it was Tzara who described one image as repellent. I couldn't get that out of my mind and am attracted to the idea that things which are repellent are sometimes, equally and simultaneously, attractive.

Your bar seems to have that potential, to attract people who know they shouldn't be there, doing things they will want to forget in the morning, to repel and be repelled. It, the bar, seems to me to be a great stage to show the darker side of ordinary humans.

Sorry that's not a useful comment on your poem s but I do think this is one of the best ideas for a series of poems we have seen in a while.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Something I forgot earlier. I think it was Tzara who described one image as repellent. I couldn't get that out of my mind and am attracted to the idea that things which are repellent are sometimes, equally and simultaneously, attractive.

Your bar seems to have that potential, to attract people who know they shouldn't be there, doing things they will want to forget in the morning, to repel and be repelled. It, the bar, seems to me to be a great stage to show the darker side of ordinary humans.

Sorry that's not a useful comment on your poem s but I do think this is one of the best ideas for a series of poems we have seen in a while.

Isn't it interesting how a repellent image can be compelling in certain cases?
ANY comment is useful even if it just indicates the poem's been read. Thank you Ish.

Bar Interior - slightly edited

It must have been impressive,
luxurious before smoke and age
beat it down to its present state
of gloomy melancholia.
Only at night by the light from
the bar, filtered through regiments
of amber bottles does the memory revive.
New smoke covers the old and ample
bottoms cover the tattered seats.
The center of attraction is solid mahogany,
burnished to a glow by a generation of
barkeepers’ rags, eager elbows and
the occasional drink-flushed face.
The floor, seldom seen, is carpeted,
a pattern long gone and the weave
worn thin beneath the stools.
There’s a raised area, hardly a stage
and now, with live music a mere memory,
tables and chairs strut the boards.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

The Bar Maids

They come and go like days of the week,
some easy to recall with a frisson, a prickle of arousal,
others better left undisturbed in the murky mud of memory.

Hopeful young things from the hinterland,
chance call-backs still a thrill, out-of-work has-beens
surviving on KD and a tarnished past.

Occasional students of obscure subjects and
one or two professionals, newly jobless
and despairingly directionless.

Oh, I had my favourites,
Thelma with her augmented breasts
the nipples unnaturally firm in my hand.
Bonnie, all boney hips and sass,
she could make me come with just a look.
Sweet Jenny missing sleep as she concocting
the next Cocktail du Jour. All gone,
to a better life I hope.

 

[letterman999]

Tzara is good,
critic and person.

I don't know he is (good person).

I know he is (good critic).

'Good' still is the better word,
though ridden hard and put away wet
probably 23,000,000,000 times
today, so far.

L999