Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Following is my rendering of Sade's position, as evidenced in his actions.* To some extent, it’s the classical ‘libertine.‘ I am NOT necessarily endorsing these points, for personal practice, but putting them out for discussion in relation to what's now called BDSM lifestyle.
This bears some relation to an earlier thread on ‘self absorbed sex’ or libertinism, but here I emphasize non deception, even collusion.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=244070&page=1&pp=25&highlight=sade
SUMMARY: The plunderer takes what she or he wants, sexually (though without coercion). This is erotic for him or her. Less often appreciated: it's erotic and consented to by the bottom/sub. Plunder can even be part of a long term arrangement if there is no deception (as there needn't be.).
The last five points are extensions, added by me, hopefully in the spirit of Sade.
1.There is no person who is simply indifferent to their possessions being taken, plundered. Hence the laws about robbery Likewise, a person generally does not like being aggressed upon (e.g., struck), so there are laws against assault.
2. There, are, however, many persons with desires to be taken sexually, which might include being overpowered, being used and exploited, being objectified as only an orifice, or demeaned; they are attracted to becoming the object of another’s aggression or sadism.
3. The area of sexual plunder, taking, extends over the breadth of non-criminal as well as criminal activities—for the latter, examples are assault, abduction, torture, rape. The German Miewes case showed the extreme extension to murder.
4. Potentially all sexual plunder can be carried out *legally* given the right circumstances and choices of persons; the aggression and sadism involved can be legally enacted, where there is a ‘subject’ or 'victim' whose desires overlap those of the perpetrator--the possible exception being murder. (Such legal plunder is the main focus of this sketch.)
5. There is no lack of sexual plunderers, but there is a lack of those with do so energetically and with the sophistication and skills to avoid legal problems. These skills enable the plunderer to take sufficient account of other’s interests to have freedom from legal problems, and more broadly to ensure social contacts and success of projects.
6. The most common act of plunder or ravishment generally, for instance an illegal act of sexual assault, is a brutal, usually poorly conceived affair producing a number of unnecessary unpleasant consequences for the victim (bodily and mental trauma, etc.). These go beyond those which might have been assented to, even where the victim, possibly, was drawn into plunder. The office manager corners the cleaning lady in the mop room, after hours. The ordinary plunderers may be compared to such lowlifes as 'purse snatchers,' though their damage is far greater. ‘Unnecessary’ is relative to both the plunderer and the plundered: The plunderer can often achieve the end without inflicting lasting mental or physical harm, if he or she can have avoided making the plundered feel afraid. After a legal, partly expected plunder situation (where no grave harm thought to be imminent), the plundered is not going to be traumatised, to develop fear of being alone in his/her apartment. Where such trauma occurs, is the unnecessary result of impulse and brutality.
7. From here on, the discussion is of legal plunder. What would legal plunder look like? Compared to the purse snatcher, look at the person who is raising 'venture capital' or selling shares for an enterprise; that person takes money and remains within the law if direct lies and explicit, false promises are avoided. He or she does so through the use of planning, social skills, persuasion, patience, and so on; and perhaps more subtle misrepresentations, insertion of “small print” into contracts, etc. Critically, there is an area of ‘victim’ deliberation and involvement which prevents the ‘victim’—in his or her own eyes—from having a valid legal complaint (“I was stupid” as opposed to “I was robbed.”)
8. Similarly the legal sexual plunderer elicits assent- -and even active cooperation--for the beginning portion of an encounter. Example: Perhaps the subject has been asked to come voluntarily to the plunderer's apartment, bearing handcuffs and a whip. Then she or her could hardly say, later, " I did not expect to be whipped; I was assaulted against my will" *and convince anyone of it*, in a court of law. A legal plunderer may or may not be ‘conscientious,’ by which is meant candid and ‘up front.’ The conscientious, legal plunderer avoids (legal) deception and trickery. (The classical legal plunderer was often NOT conscientious, as for example, in the figure of the “seducer” [Valmont, in ‘Dangerous Liaisons’] who uses lies and treachery to achieve his goal.)
9. Conscientious legal plunder is often readily accomplished, and has obvious benefits in an ongoing interaction, because there would be no basis for ‘backlash’ [‘you deceived me!]. Being open about what’s intended, or at least not lying about it is going to succeed in some cases. (“I am going to xxxx you now, unless you have an objection. There’s the door, if you want to leave.”) For it is entirely possible that something unceremonious, un varnished, even cold, is being sought.
9. The plunderer has little concern with the sexual pleasure of the other as such, in other words “How may I please you?” The plundered, if realistic, does not expect such concern; he or she is ‘on her own,’ so to say. If the plunderer seeks to bring such pleasure, it is to be put to use, if nothing use, as a demonstration of power; or of the ‘sluttiness’ of the receiver. Evoking sexual pleasure can be a means to further, continuing control—a ‘reward’ judiciously employed to reinforce a connection. Or it can be kept open as an avenue of continued abasement, the ‘victim’s’ orgasm during a demeaning event being one example (contrary to porn, such orgasm is usually experienced as intensifying the demeaning).
10. In general, a episode of plunder cannot be pre-arranged in its specific, overall form and detail. An episode could not be plunder if it was, beforehand, mutually agreed and specified in detail. The plundered can scarcely be *overpowered* or exploited through a pre-planned arrangement. (Just as there is no 'loss' in a chess match, if the ‘loser’ intends and arranges to lose.) Neither can the plunderer *objectify* or *demean* where the other enthusiastically says, "I will be your pussy"; “I will prostrate myself at your feet.”
11. So plunder is more often episodic, short term, relatively spontaneous.
12. The plunderer is not a ‘dom/me’, at least the usual Garden Variety dom(me) (GVD) often promoted in the BDSM community, although in common with the ‘dom’ the legal plunderer stays on the right side of the law. The plunderer does take command of a situation, but the GVD differs in typically carrying out his/her commanding to a pre-arranged limit. The GVD often has a stated concern with offering ‘respect’, if not psychic health benefits (“growth”), and with the sub’s (alleged) entitlement to orgasm—these being other points of difference. Neither is the encounter of plunderer and plundered is also not just a simple arrangement, by two fetishists, for exchange of fetishes; one wants to wear vinyl, the other wishes to have sex with someone wearing vinyl.
13. The complicated issue of ongoing or long-term 'plunder' might be mentioned. The difficulty is that genuine such cases would have to show continued 'taking,' demeaning, etc., not merely routines and episodes that unfold without pre-set, shared expectations. Such plunder, as already said, requires a conscientious approach, since lies or trickery cannot be sustained in a continuing encounter. Longer term ‘plunder’ seems feasible, given certain types of participants in the pair, trio, etc.
14. Long term plunder would involve continuing ‘use’, objectification, and ‘exploitation,’ but the plundered’s remaining in the pairing would be evidence of consent. One would presume a continuing role, usually, of sexual pleasure in the plundered, though on the terms of the plunderer (to enhance the difference of role, and the longevity of the relationship).
15. Could such a longterm arrangement be loving? It would appear so, in the sense of genuine attachment. As to lovers working to the benefit of one another, the plunderer, if loving, sees to the other side of the “use” or exploitation, namely what it accomplishes; something desired, at a deeper level, by both the plunderer and plundered, for example, intimacy.
16. Notwithstanding the aspect of scrupulousness, long term continual or continuing plunder might well look to others like an 'abusive' relationship, judged by normal standards, for instance, because of the ‘use’ of the plundered one. According to such standards, 'no one really wants to be treated this way,' which, as stated above, is false, esp. in a sexualized context.
*It’s an update of a draft some some time ago; a major revision; I don’t think the earlier draft was posted; can’t find it.
NOTE:
The above bears some relation to an earlier thread on ‘self absorbed sex’ or libertinism, but here I emphasize non deception, even collusion.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=244070&page=1&pp=25&highlight=sade
There was a somewhat related thread on cruelty (SMACK).
This bears some relation to an earlier thread on ‘self absorbed sex’ or libertinism, but here I emphasize non deception, even collusion.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=244070&page=1&pp=25&highlight=sade
SUMMARY: The plunderer takes what she or he wants, sexually (though without coercion). This is erotic for him or her. Less often appreciated: it's erotic and consented to by the bottom/sub. Plunder can even be part of a long term arrangement if there is no deception (as there needn't be.).
The last five points are extensions, added by me, hopefully in the spirit of Sade.
1.There is no person who is simply indifferent to their possessions being taken, plundered. Hence the laws about robbery Likewise, a person generally does not like being aggressed upon (e.g., struck), so there are laws against assault.
2. There, are, however, many persons with desires to be taken sexually, which might include being overpowered, being used and exploited, being objectified as only an orifice, or demeaned; they are attracted to becoming the object of another’s aggression or sadism.
3. The area of sexual plunder, taking, extends over the breadth of non-criminal as well as criminal activities—for the latter, examples are assault, abduction, torture, rape. The German Miewes case showed the extreme extension to murder.
4. Potentially all sexual plunder can be carried out *legally* given the right circumstances and choices of persons; the aggression and sadism involved can be legally enacted, where there is a ‘subject’ or 'victim' whose desires overlap those of the perpetrator--the possible exception being murder. (Such legal plunder is the main focus of this sketch.)
5. There is no lack of sexual plunderers, but there is a lack of those with do so energetically and with the sophistication and skills to avoid legal problems. These skills enable the plunderer to take sufficient account of other’s interests to have freedom from legal problems, and more broadly to ensure social contacts and success of projects.
6. The most common act of plunder or ravishment generally, for instance an illegal act of sexual assault, is a brutal, usually poorly conceived affair producing a number of unnecessary unpleasant consequences for the victim (bodily and mental trauma, etc.). These go beyond those which might have been assented to, even where the victim, possibly, was drawn into plunder. The office manager corners the cleaning lady in the mop room, after hours. The ordinary plunderers may be compared to such lowlifes as 'purse snatchers,' though their damage is far greater. ‘Unnecessary’ is relative to both the plunderer and the plundered: The plunderer can often achieve the end without inflicting lasting mental or physical harm, if he or she can have avoided making the plundered feel afraid. After a legal, partly expected plunder situation (where no grave harm thought to be imminent), the plundered is not going to be traumatised, to develop fear of being alone in his/her apartment. Where such trauma occurs, is the unnecessary result of impulse and brutality.
7. From here on, the discussion is of legal plunder. What would legal plunder look like? Compared to the purse snatcher, look at the person who is raising 'venture capital' or selling shares for an enterprise; that person takes money and remains within the law if direct lies and explicit, false promises are avoided. He or she does so through the use of planning, social skills, persuasion, patience, and so on; and perhaps more subtle misrepresentations, insertion of “small print” into contracts, etc. Critically, there is an area of ‘victim’ deliberation and involvement which prevents the ‘victim’—in his or her own eyes—from having a valid legal complaint (“I was stupid” as opposed to “I was robbed.”)
8. Similarly the legal sexual plunderer elicits assent- -and even active cooperation--for the beginning portion of an encounter. Example: Perhaps the subject has been asked to come voluntarily to the plunderer's apartment, bearing handcuffs and a whip. Then she or her could hardly say, later, " I did not expect to be whipped; I was assaulted against my will" *and convince anyone of it*, in a court of law. A legal plunderer may or may not be ‘conscientious,’ by which is meant candid and ‘up front.’ The conscientious, legal plunderer avoids (legal) deception and trickery. (The classical legal plunderer was often NOT conscientious, as for example, in the figure of the “seducer” [Valmont, in ‘Dangerous Liaisons’] who uses lies and treachery to achieve his goal.)
9. Conscientious legal plunder is often readily accomplished, and has obvious benefits in an ongoing interaction, because there would be no basis for ‘backlash’ [‘you deceived me!]. Being open about what’s intended, or at least not lying about it is going to succeed in some cases. (“I am going to xxxx you now, unless you have an objection. There’s the door, if you want to leave.”) For it is entirely possible that something unceremonious, un varnished, even cold, is being sought.
9. The plunderer has little concern with the sexual pleasure of the other as such, in other words “How may I please you?” The plundered, if realistic, does not expect such concern; he or she is ‘on her own,’ so to say. If the plunderer seeks to bring such pleasure, it is to be put to use, if nothing use, as a demonstration of power; or of the ‘sluttiness’ of the receiver. Evoking sexual pleasure can be a means to further, continuing control—a ‘reward’ judiciously employed to reinforce a connection. Or it can be kept open as an avenue of continued abasement, the ‘victim’s’ orgasm during a demeaning event being one example (contrary to porn, such orgasm is usually experienced as intensifying the demeaning).
10. In general, a episode of plunder cannot be pre-arranged in its specific, overall form and detail. An episode could not be plunder if it was, beforehand, mutually agreed and specified in detail. The plundered can scarcely be *overpowered* or exploited through a pre-planned arrangement. (Just as there is no 'loss' in a chess match, if the ‘loser’ intends and arranges to lose.) Neither can the plunderer *objectify* or *demean* where the other enthusiastically says, "I will be your pussy"; “I will prostrate myself at your feet.”
11. So plunder is more often episodic, short term, relatively spontaneous.
12. The plunderer is not a ‘dom/me’, at least the usual Garden Variety dom(me) (GVD) often promoted in the BDSM community, although in common with the ‘dom’ the legal plunderer stays on the right side of the law. The plunderer does take command of a situation, but the GVD differs in typically carrying out his/her commanding to a pre-arranged limit. The GVD often has a stated concern with offering ‘respect’, if not psychic health benefits (“growth”), and with the sub’s (alleged) entitlement to orgasm—these being other points of difference. Neither is the encounter of plunderer and plundered is also not just a simple arrangement, by two fetishists, for exchange of fetishes; one wants to wear vinyl, the other wishes to have sex with someone wearing vinyl.
13. The complicated issue of ongoing or long-term 'plunder' might be mentioned. The difficulty is that genuine such cases would have to show continued 'taking,' demeaning, etc., not merely routines and episodes that unfold without pre-set, shared expectations. Such plunder, as already said, requires a conscientious approach, since lies or trickery cannot be sustained in a continuing encounter. Longer term ‘plunder’ seems feasible, given certain types of participants in the pair, trio, etc.
14. Long term plunder would involve continuing ‘use’, objectification, and ‘exploitation,’ but the plundered’s remaining in the pairing would be evidence of consent. One would presume a continuing role, usually, of sexual pleasure in the plundered, though on the terms of the plunderer (to enhance the difference of role, and the longevity of the relationship).
15. Could such a longterm arrangement be loving? It would appear so, in the sense of genuine attachment. As to lovers working to the benefit of one another, the plunderer, if loving, sees to the other side of the “use” or exploitation, namely what it accomplishes; something desired, at a deeper level, by both the plunderer and plundered, for example, intimacy.
16. Notwithstanding the aspect of scrupulousness, long term continual or continuing plunder might well look to others like an 'abusive' relationship, judged by normal standards, for instance, because of the ‘use’ of the plundered one. According to such standards, 'no one really wants to be treated this way,' which, as stated above, is false, esp. in a sexualized context.
*It’s an update of a draft some some time ago; a major revision; I don’t think the earlier draft was posted; can’t find it.
NOTE:
The above bears some relation to an earlier thread on ‘self absorbed sex’ or libertinism, but here I emphasize non deception, even collusion.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=244070&page=1&pp=25&highlight=sade
There was a somewhat related thread on cruelty (SMACK).
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