Plotters v Pantsers: pick a side!

[TheWritingGroup]

I know it’s tempting to say that our fingers at controlled by some unseen power. It’s called your cerebrum. I know it’s tempting to say our characters have a life of their own. It’s called your inventiveness. Writing is a brain-centric activity (like most everything else human).

Human brains devote a lot of cells to modeling what other humans are thinking and feeling. We writers use that to determine what our characters think and feel. It uses the brain areas that react to other people. It's hard sometimes to distinguish between the experiences.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Human brains devote a lot of cells to modeling what other humans are thinking and feeling. We writers use that to determine what our characters think and feel. It uses the brain areas that react to other people. It's hard sometimes to distinguish between the experiences.

Agreed. Hard, but we understand at least the rudiments of cognition, though maybe not much more .

 

[old_prof]

I fully understand it's my brain doing it, but it's still a very weird feeling to type a line of dialog that surprises you.

My most notable example was in my original series when one of the central four characters is being atypically pissy and self destructive all Sunday morning. When he finally admits that he had been laid off Friday afternoon, not having told his fiancee or his best friends. Or conscious me. I'm still not sure if my brain had known all along he'd been laid off or just made that up to justify his behavior. I guess I will never know.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I know it’s tempting to say that our fingers at controlled by some unseen power. It’s called your cerebrum. I know it’s tempting to say our characters have a life of their own. It’s called your inventiveness. Writing is a brain-centric activity (like most everything else human).

I think, as we went over last time, I have fully acknowledged it's not some wacky magic force, it is a perfect normal (well... normal for me, anyway) part of my brain. It's a different mode of thinking that is more intuition than high-level planning. The plotting and planning that occurs usually happens before I (and most people) get in and start to get to know the characters, to develop them and flesh them out. That mode of thinking is pulling on all the years and years of social interaction breakdowns I had to do in order to fit in with normies and not get bullied every five seconds, and since I've internalized so much of understanding why people do and think things, it's one of the most important aspects to me. It's also probably why I can pants the way I do, because the subconscious pantsing subroutine is very good at building out characters with a lot of depth and nuance in their backgrounds, interactions, and motivations, using all those data I gathered over the years, and still gather, in my quest to understand people.

Plotting, for me, has always been a cold, emotionless affair that is primarily story-based, whereas my actual writing is very character-driven, where the character motivations and how they mesh and react to the events I come up with are extremely important. Until I actually get to know them, via intuitive processes driven by meerkats, I don't know how those characters would realistically react to the plot points as I outlined them. Frequently, they wouldn't go near any of my emotionless plot points because they don't mesh with their character motivations, which were, as stated, generated by subconscious intuitive processes.

Hence why the archaeopteryx sits back and sips her tea while the meerkats run rampant. The archaeopteryx can clean up the mess after the meerkats finish shitting out their story.

She's very good at that.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I fully understand it's my brain doing it, but it's still a very weird feeling to type a line of dialog that surprises you.

My most notable example was in my original series when one of the central four characters is being atypically pissy and self destructive all Sunday morning. When he finally admits that he had been laid off Friday afternoon, not having told his fiancee or his best friends. Or conscious me. I'm still not sure if my brain had known all along he'd been laid off or just made that up to justify his behavior. I guess I will never know.

It's crazy how that works. Which came first, subconscious knowledge of the event, or post hoc justification of a behavior? I tend to lean post-hoc justification, but usually the justification makes perfect sense in terms of logic series of events and fit with character. But sometimes I've definitely looked back and realized I left little clues about why someone was doing something before I even realized what that something was, and it blows my mind every time that some part of me snuck that in there without my conscious brain realizing it.

One of the best feelings: realizing your subconscious pulled a plot twist on you that it's been building for half the story.

Uh, I mean, I plotted that whole thing the whole time. Totally. Look, I even drew a graph.

*shows hastily scribbled graph in crayon*

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think, as we went over last time, I have fully acknowledged it's not some wacky magic force, it is a perfect normal (well... normal for me, anyway) part of my brain. It's a different mode of thinking that is more intuition than high-level planning. The plotting and planning that occurs usually happens before I (and most people) get in and start to get to know the characters, to develop them and flesh them out. That mode of thinking is pulling on all the years and years of social interaction breakdowns I had to do in order to fit in with normies and not get bullied every five seconds, and since I've internalized so much of understanding why people do and think things, it's one of the most important aspects to me. It's also probably why I can pants the way I do, because the subconscious pantsing subroutine is very good at building out characters with a lot of depth and nuance in their backgrounds, interactions, and motivations, using all those data I gathered over the years, and still gather, in my quest to understand people.

Plotting, for me, has always been a cold, emotionless affair that is primarily story-based, whereas my actual writing is very character-driven, where the character motivations and how they mesh and react to the events I come up with are extremely important. Until I actually get to know them, via intuitive processes driven by meerkats, I don't know how those characters would realistically react to the plot points as I outlined them. Frequently, they wouldn't go near any of my emotionless plot points because they don't mesh with their character motivations, which were, as stated, generated by subconscious intuitive processes.

Hence why the archaeopteryx sits back and sips her tea while the meerkats run rampant. The archaeopteryx can clean up the mess after the meerkats finish shitting out their story.

She's very good at that.

I get it. We are writers we romanticize stuff. It’s what we do. I didn’t get bullied so much as ignored as that weird chick. Maybe less painful, IDK.

I do think the effort we put into masking is like a UN simultaneous translation. And yeah it does make you a student of human behavior.

But we apply that knowledge within different frameworks. Neither of them mystical, as you have acknowledged.

People are different. No two ND people are the same, just like no two NT people are.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I get it. We are writers we romanticize stuff. It’s what we do. I didn’t get bullied so much as ignored as that weird chick. Maybe less painful, IDK.

I do think the effort we put into masking is like a UN simultaneous translation. And yeah it does make you a student of human behavior.

But we apply that knowledge within different frameworks. Neither of them mystical, as you have acknowledged.

People are different. No two ND people are the same, just like no two NT people are.

Yep. Once again, you and I are on the same page. Granted, my copy of the page is soggy from all the meerkats chewing on it, but I'm pretty sure it's the same page.

*wipes off meerkat spit*

Yep! Same page

 

[Erozetta]

I was actually talking to @dirk2024 tonight about this thread.

We discussed our differences a bit and I realized that when I sit down to write, it's very emotion based and intuitive with me. I'm writing what I *need* to write in the moment rather than writing something I *want* to write.

Writing is a safe way to explore my thoughts and fears, to let me walk the path of "what if" and see where it leads me. My stories are recorded daydreams, documented memories, and emotional processing of trauma.

I think that's part of why I don't plot. It's not an academic avenue for me, it's a therapeutic one. The other part is equal parts "I don't want to" and "Once the plot is down, the story is written."

Using Simon's art reference: once I have the lines down, I don't need to layer in the color to build out the image, I'm satisfied with the line art.

 

[TheLobster]

I'm sure some do.

I'm sure some don't.

I'm sure some plotters evolve into pantsers.

Everyone's different.

Some people are born pantsers, others achieve pantsing; and some have pants thrust onto them.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Some people are born pantsers, others achieve pantsing; and some have pants thrust onto them.

With great pantsing comes great responsibility.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

With great pantsing comes great responsibility.

The responsibility to EDIT!

 

[StillStunned]

Plotters might lose the plot, pantsers could lose their pants. We all know who'd have more fun.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Plotters might lose the plot, pantsers could lose their pants. We all know who'd have more fun.

Blondes?

 

[NuclearFairy]

some have pants thrust onto them.

I'd rather have a skirt.

 

[AStrangeDesire]

The responsibility to EDIT!

Surely this is a responsibility we all share!

 

[SimonDoom]

Plotters might lose the plot, pantsers could lose their pants. We all know who'd have more fun.

Some of us plotters just skip the pants.

But of course, we risk getting arrested. So there IS that.

 

[AStrangeDesire]

Some of us plotters just skip the pants.

But of course, we risk getting arrested. So there IS that.

Maybe that's why mother suggested always wearing clean underwear?

Wait, you are wearing underwear aren't you? On second thought, PLEASE don't answer that!

 

[big_cane_sugar]

I begin as a plotter, find myself pantsing, having to revise my plotting, then pantsing again, and again revising my plotting, repeatedly, and sometimes a story comes out that looks like someone might have written it on purpose.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Wait, you are wearing underwear aren't you? On second thought, PLEASE don't answer that!

On third thought, please DO

 

[SimonDoom]

Maybe that's why mother suggested always wearing clean underwear?

Wait, you are wearing underwear aren't you? On second thought, PLEASE don't answer that!

Friend, we're not going there.

 

[Britva415]

Some people are born pantsers, others achieve pantsing; and some have pants thrust onto them.

I guess we know who wears the pants!

 

[M_K_Babalon]

OK, finally caught up on this thread (and managed not to get 'spritzed' which is good? Or is it bad? I don't know)

My question is, do people evolve into plotters? Like for you plotters, did you start as pantsers and then realize there is a something you were missing?

Or is it more of a personality thing?

I did. Along with posting as I write, and it turned into a detriment imo. That's why my old account has so many unfinshed works on it. I still pants stuff depending on how long it is, but I actually finish the story first. Outside of a deadline, there's no reason to rush.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Friend, we're not going there.

You're not going into @AStrangeDesire's underwear?

 

[AStrangeDesire]

You're not going into @AStrangeDesire's underwear?

Hold up now, my desires maybe strange, but not that strange!

 

[SimonDoom]

You're not going into @AStrangeDesire's underwear?

I hate to be the unfriendly sort, but . . . no.