Please give me your honest critique.

[Nau8tynnice]

Hi all,

I'm here because I know I won't get mushy praise from you… I thirst for your honest critique on my new submission 'Katarina - a beginning'. (I know... boring bloody title). I have been trying to write for the last 6-7 months (very much a part time hobby). My early attempts were strokers/flickers but now, I am trying to get past that.

I started writing collaboratively with one other person about 6 months ago. In all honesty the story moved too fast for me and as a result, I didn't develop my character soon enough. We have stopped for a bit of a break. I am now trying to focus on developing the character I write for by going back into her past (6 months prior). I’m also trying to develop my use of dialogue.

I really would appreciate and value what you have to say. I want to soak it all in before I finish my next chapter. There is a link to my stories in my signature… again the title is... 'Katarina - a beginning'
Thank you in advance for any time you might spend reading and critiquing my story.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Hi all,

I'm here because I know I won't get mushy praise from you… I thirst for your honest critique on my new submission 'Katarina - a beginning'. (I know... boring bloody title). I have been trying to write for the last 6-7 months (very much a part time hobby). My early attempts were strokers/flickers but now, I am trying to get past that.

I started writing collaboratively with one other person about 6 months ago. In all honesty the story moved too fast for me and as a result, I didn't develop my character soon enough. We have stopped for a bit of a break. I am now trying to focus on developing the character I write for by going back into her past (6 months prior). I’m also trying to develop my use of dialogue.

I really would appreciate and value what you have to say. I want to soak it all in before I finish my next chapter. There is a link to my stories in my signature… again the title is... 'Katarina - a beginning'
Thank you in advance for any time you might spend reading and critiquing my story.

Well .. first, a lot of people have sig lines turned off so the story is at http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=364275

You need to learn to punctuate dialogue. It's not that hard, but it make reading a lot easier. Go to the Writer's Resources and look for an article by KillerMuffin titled "How to Punctuate Like a Pro".

Here's a for instance -

"Good afternoon Ms Corbett." He greeted her rather formally as he shook her hand.

Or should this read - "Good afternoon, Ms Corbett," he greeted her rather formally..." See the difference? You also consistantly forgot the commas in this type of construction

I hate saying this, but I actually liked your opening paragraph It worked pretty well.

The story, however, is still a stroker, not a story. Why is Kat so hot for Richard? See? No beginning. In the end the fucked and Kat came. And then...? See? No ending. In short - a snippet, not a story.

I guess all the tension in the story is Kat want's a piece of "man-meat". That, a story, doesn't make.

Find a new editor who knows how to punctuate and how to write.

 

[freshface]

I have to agree with Jenny. You really need help with your punctuation. Commas can be your friend; readers like them because they help provide guidance.

I thought the interlude with Keith was sort of odd. Other than telling us that Kat was alone, I'm not sure why he was in the story. He didn't add tension or move the plot. I'm assumng he'll play a role in a future chapter, but he added nothing here.

You did a nice job using dialogue to move things along. I like your writing, but I'd like it better if you used it to tell a story.

 

[Nau8tynnice]

Thanks for your feedback Jenny. I will read that article on dialogue asap (great tip and thanx for the story link )

I just want to quickly clarify that the person I acknowledged for assistance with editing is not an ‘editor’. Basically he was someone who had taken the time to read one of my other stories and given me honest feedback that picked up on my errors. I then asked him to find any errors he could in this short piece. I was lucky that he accepted.

I will start looking for an editor to work with for the next chapter onwards… I am just a little hesitant with asking for help. I am also looking for a ‘guide on the side’… not someone who will fix things by themselves and leave me making the same old mistakes over and over. I have no idea how realistic that is when looking for a volunteer editor :O

This is just a first chapter. There is most definitely more to come. I do have reasons why I portrayed Kat as a women hungry for a ‘piece of man meat’ (liked how you put that) that doesn’t actually get her hot dog (yeah, wtf?) I don’t want to let her whole story unravel in the first chapter. Did I not give the reader enough insight for a first chapter?

I will have a think about your comment about there not being a beginning. I did have my reasons why there was no explanation of why Kat was hot for Richard… but I am now reflecting on whether that was a good move.

Can I ask why you hate to say that you liked the first paragraph? Is it because you were let down by the rest of it?

Again, thanks for your time.

Well .. first, a lot of people have sig lines turned off so the story is at http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=364275

You need to learn to punctuate dialogue. It's not that hard, but it make reading a lot easier. Go to the Writer's Resources and look for an article by KillerMuffin titled "How to Punctuate Like a Pro".

Here's a for instance -

Or should this read - "Good afternoon, Ms Corbett," he greeted her rather formally..." See the difference? You also consistantly forgot the commas in this type of construction

I hate saying this, but I actually liked your opening paragraph It worked pretty well.

The story, however, is still a stroker, not a story. Why is Kat so hot for Richard? See? No beginning. In the end the fucked and Kat came. And then...? See? No ending. In short - a snippet, not a story.

I guess all the tension in the story is Kat want's a piece of "man-meat". That, a story, doesn't make.

Find a new editor who knows how to punctuate and how to write.

 

[Nau8tynnice]

I have to agree with Jenny. You really need help with your punctuation. Commas can be your friend; readers like them because they help provide guidance.

I thought the interlude with Keith was sort of odd. Other than telling us that Kat was alone, I'm not sure why he was in the story. He didn't add tension or move the plot. I'm assumng he'll play a role in a future chapter, but he added nothing here.

You did a nice job using dialogue to move things along. I like your writing, but I'd like it better if you used it to tell a story.

Thanks for your time to read my submission and give me feedback...
Commas? What are they? (Wouldn’t you just love to know work in education? lol).

I think I see where you are coming with the Keith bit. I suppose (in my mind) I am trying to build a person out of her. When I have previously attempted to write for her character, I haven't been able to see her out of the sex. She is actually a loner with few friends... Keith is her flatmate and closest friend. Maybe I involved him to soon =/

 

[Anna_Malia75]

First off, I absolutely agree with Jenny about the punctuation. I don't think that the example she cites is a particularly good one; it seems to me that it could be written either way, since both the dialogue and the sentence that follows it can stand as incomplete sentences (I also don't like the use of "greeted" as a dialogue attribution. I think that, like "smiled" and "laughed," it works better in a separate sentence - i.e., with a period rather than a comma separating it from the dialogue.

But having said that, there are way too many other examples that prove Jenny's point.

'And to help me control my dick." He interrupted.

He let out a little sigh "I was wondering when you'd bring that up."

I think you also need to do a little self-editing, by which I mean reading your own story critically. For example, the very first line:

Katarina's fingers caressed the keys on her laptop, as though each one stimulated a sensation in her that was almost sensual.

Your alliterative "s" sounds are a little much here. And the word "sensual" seems a little redundant as an adjective for "sensation." Maybe "as though each one stimulated her in a way that was almost sensual." And then your third sentence (the second sentence was fine, btw, although I wasn't sure whether it should have been "patient's" or "patients.'"):

A warm sensation started to build up in the pit of her stomach which swarmed to her vulva.

Again with the "s" sounds. And if you're going to keep sensation in the first sentence, you don't want to use it again so soon. Readers won't consciously fault you for that, but subconsciously, they'll sense that something is wrong with the writing. How about just "a warmth"? And why "swarmed"? That's usually a verb for a group of things, like bees. As an alternative, "A warmth began building in the pit of her stomach, and spread to her vulva."

I actually like the story a lot. I think that if you had titled it "Chapter One," Jenny might not have thought it wasn't a story. Kat's desire for her patient doesn't need to be explained right off as long as readers know that there's more to come. Here, with "A Beginning," you've left it kind of ambiguous.

Hope this helps.

Anna

 

[Nau8tynnice]

Lmao! You are so right Anna!
I am terrible at editing my own writing. So before I found someone to help me, I actually recorded it, thinking play back would help me to pick up on my grammatical errors. I actually had to stop listening to myself after the first paragraph because it sounded like I had a nasty lisp. It was just complete over kill. I will have to watch for it in the future (there are some initial consonants I am unconsciously more passionate about than others ).

You have helped a lot, thanks…
Is there anything you can recommend for me to read which would help me with dialogue and punctuation?

First off, I absolutely agree with Jenny about the punctuation. I don't think that the example she cites is a particularly good one; it seems to me that it could be written either way, since both the dialogue and the sentence that follows it can stand as incomplete sentences (I also don't like the use of "greeted" as a dialogue attribution. I

I think you also need to do a little self-editing, by which I mean reading your own story critically. For example, the very first line:
think that, like "smiled" and "laughed," it works better in a separate sentence - i.e., with a period rather than a comma separating it from the dialogue.

But having said that, there are way too many other examples that prove Jenny's point.

Your alliterative "s" sounds are a little much here. And the word "sensual" seems a little redundant as an adjective for "sensation." Maybe "as though each one stimulated her in a way that was almost sensual." And then your third sentence (the second sentence was fine, btw, although I wasn't sure whether it should have been "patient's" or "patients.'"):

Again with the "s" sounds. And if you're going to keep sensation in the first sentence, you don't want to use it again so soon. Readers won't consciously fault you for that, but subconsciously, they'll sense that something is wrong with the writing. How about just "a warmth"? And why "swarmed"? That's usually a verb for a group of things, like bees. As an alternative, "A warmth began building in the pit of her stomach, and spread to her vulva."

I actually like the story a lot. I think that if you had titled it "Chapter One," Jenny might not have thought it wasn't a story. Kat's desire for her patient doesn't need to be explained right off as long as readers know that there's more to come. Here, with "A Beginning," you've left it kind of ambiguous.

Hope this helps.

Anna

 

[sr71plt]

First off, I absolutely agree with Jenny about the punctuation. I don't think that the example she cites is a particularly good one; it seems to me that it could be written either way, since both the dialogue and the sentence that follows it can stand as incomplete sentences (I also don't like the use of "greeted" as a dialogue attribution.

Right. The original rendering of this is probably better than the "fix." "Greeted" is not a good dialogue attribution. The two parts stand as separate sentences. The original is a little abrupt, though--but grammatically correct.

 

[Anna_Malia75]

Lmao! You are so right Anna!
I am terrible at editing my own writing. So before I found someone to help me, I actually recorded it, thinking play back would help me to pick up on my grammatical errors. I actually had to stop listening to myself after the first paragraph because it sounded like I had a nasty lisp. It was just complete over kill. I will have to watch for it in the future (there are some initial consonants I am unconsciously more passionate about than others ).

You have helped a lot, thanks…
Is there anything you can recommend for me to read which would help me with dialogue and punctuation?

I think reading it aloud is a great idea. It explains why your dialogue sounds very natural. Soooo many people have such wooden dialogue in their stories. You do a very good job at distinguishing between the very educated Kat and the very rough Richard.

As far as punctuating the dialogue, you might look at http://www.writing-world.com/fiction/dialogue.shtml. Also, feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to take a look at Chapter 2 before you submit it.

love, anna

p.s. you might want to consider changing categories too. Unless the whole series is going to be about masturbation, you might want to have in another cat, like erotic couplings. If you put chapter two in there by itself, readers in that category might not have seen the first chapter, and give it a pass for that reason alone.

 

[sr71plt]

"A warm sensation started to build up in the pit of her stomach which swarmed to her vulva."

This sentence is problematic in two ways. The worst is that the modifier is misplaced. According to this, her stomach swarmed to her vulva. I think you meant to mean that the sensation did, but the clause has been hung on the wrong noun.

The other concerns a simplifying rule publishing uses. All "which" clauses in publishing are independent and need to be set up with a comma. All "that" clauses are dependent and are not set off by a comma. The English language has some exceptions to this--but publishing doesn't. Publishers like to keep it simple and they want the reader to be able to follow the sentence pattern easily.

 

[Anna_Malia75]

"A warm sensation started to build up in the pit of her stomach which swarmed to her vulva."

This sentence is problematic in two ways. The worst is that the modifier is misplaced. According to this, her stomach swarmed to her vulva. I think you meant to mean that the sensation did, but the clause has been hung on the wrong noun.

The other concerns a simplifying rule publishing uses. All "which" clauses in publishing are independent and need to be set up with a comma. All "that" clauses are dependent and are not set off by a comma. The English language has some exceptions to this--but publishing doesn't. Publishers like to keep it simple and they want the reader to be able to follow the sentence pattern easily.

Oh, sure, go ahead and get all grammatical on us. Modifiers. Sheesh.

Right. The original rendering of this is probably better than the "fix." "Greeted" is not a good dialogue attribution. The two parts stand as separate sentences. The original is a little abrupt, though--but grammatically correct.

I think the problem with the original is its use of the word "rather." That word implies to me that Kat has a reasonable expectation of something different, which your next paragraph ("You can call me Katarina, you know.") doesn't support. The rather is a "telling," it seems to me. You can "show" that his greeting was "rather" formal by having her say something like, "I thought we had agreed that you would call me Katarina." That establishes her expectations and highlights his decision not to meet them.

Isn't this fun?

 

[sr71plt]

The basic problem with using dialogue attributions is that there are so few of them that actually work properly. You need to use a word that can actually be a function of uttering the dialogue: said, murmured, whispered, screamed, uttered, yelled. You can't get the words/sounds of the utterance formed with false attributions such as greeted, sighed, snorted, sneered, gulped, purred (although purred comes close). So you have the choice of using a proper attribute and get your expression across in a subordinate clause, or, as done in this example, giving no attribute to the dialogue at all (if the speaker is evident) and going on to another sentence that sheds light on the circumstance of the dialogue.

 

[Anna_Malia75]

The basic problem with using dialogue attributions is that there are so few of them that actually work properly. You need to use a word that can actually be a function of uttering the dialogue: said, murmured, whispered, screamed, uttered, yelled. You can't get the words/sounds of the utterance formed with false attributions such as greeted, sighed, snorted, sneered, gulped, purred (although purred comes close). So you have the choice of using a proper attribute and get your expression across in a subordinate clause, or, as done in this example, giving no attribute to the dialogue at all (if the speaker is evident) and going on to another sentence that sheds light on the circumstance of the dialogue.

LOL! I always catch myself (or my editor catches me) using tags like "smiled" or "laughed," as if someone could actually smile or laugh out a sentence. I think "hissed" is also a hard one.

 

[sr71plt]

LOL! I always catch myself (or my editor catches me) using tags like "smiled" or "laughed," as if someone could actually smile or laugh out a sentence. I think "hissed" is also a hard one.

"Damn right," he muttered.

 

[Nau8tynnice]

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to listen to more than the first two paragraphs of my recording. It just felt really odd at the time and quite off putting. But I’ll try it again and hopefully stick it out with my next chapter. I do think it will be valuable in the self editing phase.

I am still a bit in regards to punctuating dialogue. I have read the link that you posted. I guess I just need practise. Thank you for the offer to look at chapter 2 before I post. I might take you up on that

The story will move around a few categories… but I doubt it will end up in erotic couplings. Kat is a bit screwed up in regards to her sexuality. I am trying hard to stick with who this character has become in my mind… I am just struggling a little trying to write for her with a ‘Lit’ crowd in mind. At the end of the day it’s feedback like yours that I value for development… I care (a bit) less about the score it receives from readers.

I think reading it aloud is a great idea. It explains why your dialogue sounds very natural. Soooo many people have such wooden dialogue in their stories. You do a very good job at distinguishing between the very educated Kat and the very rough Richard.
As far as punctuating the dialogue, you might look at http://www.writing-world.com/fiction/dialogue.shtml. Also, feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to take a look at Chapter 2 before you submit it.
love, anna
p.s. you might want to consider changing categories too. Unless the whole series is going to be about masturbation, you might want to have in another cat, like erotic couplings. If you put chapter two in there by itself, readers in that category might not have seen the first chapter, and give it a pass for that reason alone.

 

[Nau8tynnice]

Thanks four your feedback, i appreciate your clear explanation.

"A warm sensation started to build up in the pit of her stomach which swarmed to her vulva."

This sentence is problematic in two ways. The worst is that the modifier is misplaced. According to this, her stomach swarmed to her vulva. I think you meant to mean that the sensation did, but the clause has been hung on the wrong noun.

The other concerns a simplifying rule publishing uses. All "which" clauses in publishing are independent and need to be set up with a comma. All "that" clauses are dependent and are not set off by a comma. The English language has some exceptions to this--but publishing doesn't. Publishers like to keep it simple and they want the reader to be able to follow the sentence pattern easily.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Can I ask why you hate to say that you liked the first paragraph? Is it because you were let down by the rest of it?

Again, thanks for your time.

I hate liking anything someone else writes. I'm a terrible bitch. You'll get to know me.

 

[Nau8tynnice]

I hate liking anything someone else writes. I'm a terrible bitch. You'll get to know me.

LMAO, ahhh and I like ya already – bitchiness and all. I’ve read some of the feedback you've given others in this forum… it has usually always seemed relevant IMO. I was hoping to get feedback from you. You didn't disappoint.