Please explain Eminem to me.

[Problem Child]

Outline how his "music" is, in any way:

a) Entertaining, if you are over twelve years old.

b) Artistic.

c) Has any socially redeeming value.

d) Requires any talent to produce.


I just heard his new video shows him ripping up the constitution and urinating on the white house. I'm getting on amazon.com right now for the cd.

no...no, don't try to stop me. i'm warning you. it's no use, i'm getting that music, man.

 

[lavender]

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Bad poet.
Good performance art.

 

[Bluesboy2]

As a musician

I have wondered that too. I think his appeal is purely of the shock value nature. And it only appeals to angry non-thinkers. My best guess anyway.

 

[Problem Child]

Bad poet.
Good performance art.

Please elaborate. He wears baggy pants and sings about killing his mother. How is this good performance art?

 

[lavender]

 

[JazzManJim]

Yo! Eminem's like, you know, this white guy who, like hangs with Dr. Dre. I dunno who he is, 'cept that he hangs like with Snoop Dogg. So like Eminem is like down with Snoop Dogg and Ja Rule and he's like you know saying this shit that's like wack and shit.

-------------------------------

Or maybe it's just that white kids listen to him because they don't want to get their ass kicked for lsitening to real gangsta rap like old-school NWA. Shit. They don't even know who NWA is.

 

[Basia]

You should hear his song "White America" It's some fucking good shit.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Please elaborate. He wears baggy pants and sings about killing his mother. How is this good performance art?

do we all not have those fantasies?

actually he has no talent or socially redeeming value. He just makes me laugh.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I like the real slim shady song.

It's got a good beat and you can do that vertical sex let's pretend I'm dancing to it thing. I have changed a couple of minds about the merits of that song and I didn't need a pole to do it, believe you me. I did, of course, fall over. Muffie can't dance.

Then again, I like the macarena, too, so what do I know?

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

Eminem is to rap what Howard Stern is to radio...or what Marilyn Manson is to rock. No real redeeming values other than their shock value.

 

[Problem Child]

Yo! Eminem's like, you know, this white guy who, like hangs with Dr. Dre. I dunno who he is, 'cept that he hangs like with Snoop Dogg. So like Eminem is like down with Snoop Dogg and Ja Rule and he's like you know saying this shit that's like wack and shit.

-------------------------------

Or maybe it's just that white kids listen to him because they don't want to get their ass kicked for lsitening to real gangsta rap like old-school NWA. Shit. They don't even know who NWA is.

I think Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg are like 50,000 times more talented than Eminem. He sings about how his little girl is never going to see his mother and how he's going to kill his girlfriend. Where is the talent?

Let me see...he can't sing.

He can't play an instument that I know of.

His "rhymes" are childish.

I have to conclude that his popularity stems primarily from his shock message and the fact that he's the only rapper that little white kids can claim as their own.

Sad.

 

[SweetInnocence]

I find him amusing.
(Sorry, I don't take what he says seriously - just seems like he does "it" for the reaction)

 

[OUTSIDER]

In his own way he's very clever, he dresse's up as Osama or pee's on the whitehouse and everybodies up in arms, meanwhile the kids buy his CD's to piss off their parents and he rakes in the dough.

 

[Spinaroonie]

He's popular because he hangs out with the "right" people and the record comapnies paid al ot of money for the radio to play his song. So, he must be good!

Basically, the label (IIRC Sony) told everybody he's cool, so he's cool.

 

[Basia]

Believe it or not, he tries to write about things that happen ever day, to not only himself, but to fans.

Chorus:
My tea's gone cold I'm wondering why I..
Got out of bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window..
And I can't see at all
And even if I could it'll all be gray,
But your picture on my wall
It reminds me, that it's not so bad,
It's not so bad..

Dear Slim, I wrote but you still ain't callin
I left my cell, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
I sent two letters back in autumn, you must not-a got 'em
There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin
Sometimes I scribble addresses too sloppy when I jot 'em
but anyways; fuck it, what's been up? Man how's your daughter?
My girlfriend's pregnant too, I'm bout to be a father
If I have a daughter, guess what I'ma call her?
I'ma name her Bonnie
I read about your Uncle Ronnie too I'm sorry
I had a friend kill himself over some bitch who didn't want him
I know you probably hear this everyday, but I'm your biggest fan
I even got the underground shit that you did with Skam
I got a room full of your posters and your pictures man
I like the shit you did with Rawkus too, that shit was fat
Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back,
just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
This is Stan

Chorus

Dear Slim, you still ain't called or wrote, I hope you have a chance
I ain't mad - I just think it's FUCKED UP you don't answer fans
If you didn't wanna talk to me outside your concert
you didn't have to, but you coulda signed an autograph for Matthew
That's my little brother man, he's only six years old
We waited in the blistering cold for you,
Four hours and you just said, "No."
That's pretty shitty man - you're like his fuckin idol
He wants to be just like you man, he likes you more than I do
I ain't that mad though, I just don't like bein lied to
Remember when we met in Denver - you said if I'd write you
you would write back - see I'm just like you in a way
I never knew my father neither;
He used to always cheat on my mom and beat her
I can relate to what you're saying in your songs
so when I have a shitty day, I drift away and put 'em on
cause I don't really got shit else so that shit helps when I'm depressed
I even got a tattoo of your name across the chest
Sometimes I even cut myself to see how much it bleeds
It's like adrenaline, the pain is such a sudden rush for me
See everything you say is real, and I respect you cause you tell it
My girlfriend's jealous cause I talk about you 24/7
But she don't know you like I know you Slim, no one does
She don't know what it was like for people like us growin up
You gotta call me man, I'll be the biggest fan you'll ever lose
Sincerely yours, Stan -- P.S. We should be together too

Chorus

Dear Mister-I'm-Too-Good-To-Call-Or-Write-My-Fans,
this'll be the last package I ever send your ass
It's been six months and still no word - I don't deserve it?
I know you got my last two letters;
I wrote the addresses on 'em perfect
So this is my cassette I'm sending you, I hope you hear it
I'm in the car right now, I'm doing 90 on the freeway
Hey Slim, I drank a fifth of vodka, you dare me to drive?
You know the song by Phil Collins, "In the Air Tonight"
about that guy who coulda saved that other guy from drowning
but didn't, then Phil saw it all, then at a a show he found him?
That's kinda how this is, you coulda rescued me from drowning
Now it's too late - I'm on a 1000 downers now, I'm drowsy
and all I wanted was a lousy letter or a call
I hope you know I ripped ALL of your pictures off the wall
I love you Slim, we coulda been together, think about it
You ruined it now, I hope you can't sleep and you dream about it
And when you dream I hope you can't sleep and you SCREAM about it
I hope your conscience EATS AT YOU and you can't BREATHE without me
See Slim; {*screaming*}
Shut up bitch! I'm tryin to talk!
Hey Slim, that's my girlfriend screamin in the trunk
but I didn't slit her throat, I just tied her up, see I ain't like you
cause if she suffocates she'll suffer more, and then she'll die too
Well, gotta go, I'm almost at the bridge now
Oh shit, I forgot, how'm I supposed to send this shit out?

Chorus

Dear Stan, I meant to write you sooner but I just been busy
You said your girlfriend's pregnant now, how far along is she?
Look, I'm really flattered you would call your daughter that
and here's an autograph for your brother,
I wrote it on the Starter cap
I'm sorry I didn't see you at the show, I musta missed you
Don't think I did that shit intentionally just to diss you
But what's this shit you said about you like to cut your wrists too?
I say that shit just clownin dogg,
C'mon - how fucked up is you?
You got some issues Stan, I think you need some counseling
to help your ass from bouncing off the walls when you get down some
And what's this shit about us meant to be together?


That type of shit'll make me not want us to meet each other
I really think you and your girlfriend need each other
or maybe you just need to treat her better
I hope you get to read this letter, I just hope it reaches you in time
before you hurt yourself, I think that you'll be doin just fine
if you relax a little, I'm glad I inspire you but Stan
why are you so mad? Try to understand, that I do want you as a fan
I just don't want you to do some crazy shit
I seen this one shit on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick
Some dude was drunk and drove his car over a bridge
and had his girlfriend in the trunk, and she was pregnant with his kid
and in the car they found a tape, but they didn't say who it was to
Come to think about, his name was.. it was you
Damn


Now in this song (stan) he's not trying to advocate obsession, but rather, he is trying to get the masses to see what he faces every day, only through his eyes. Also, he's trying to persuade the people who do need help to get it before they do something they will regret.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Like I said, he's a performance artist (though he probably doesn't realize it). A performance artist uses a cannon to blow away the wall surrounding your gut, and bring out an extreme emotion (as opposed to a theatre artist who hopes to mirror the human condition via drama, conflict and relationship). Eminem uses his characters and harsh words to get at the truth of the existence shared by an ignored minority, so there's value there. It's not musical value, or prose value, and he offers no real dialogue or commentary, but there's value.

A century ago a man walked around London taking photos and writing about how the ppor lived, and Victorian England suddenly realized that 30% of the nation was extremely well off specifically because 70% of the nation was mired in the most desperate poverty. (Partly) because of that awakening the Liberal Party took over for a long time, and social engineering was attempted (not all that well).

I have no doubt that Eminem will never have that kind of effect on this country. My point is that any man who can expose wounds effectively has some value.

 

[Basia]

Here's White America, just because I love this song. I won't post any more Lyrics though, unless people want me to

(Prelude) America! We love you!
How many people are proud to be citizens of this beautiful country of ours?
The stripes and the stars for the rights that men have died for to protect
The women and men who have broke their necks for the freedom of
speech the United States government has sworn to uphold.
(Yo I want everybody to listen to the words of this song) or so we're told...


I never would've dreamed in a million years I'd see,
so many motherfuckin' people who feel like me
who share the same views and the same exact beliefs,
it's like a fuckin' army marchin' in back of me
So many lives I touch, so much anger aimed in no particular direction,
just sprays and sprays and straight through your radio waves it plays and plays,
till it stays stuck in your head for days and days
who woulda thought,
standing in this mirror bleachin' my hair,
with some peroxide, reachin for a t-shirt to wear
that I would catapult to the forefront of rap like this?
How could I predict my words would have an impact like this
I must've struck a chord, with somebody up in the office,
cuz Congress keeps telling me I ain't causin' nuthin' but problems
and now they're sayin' I'm in trouble with the government,
I'm lovin' it, I shoveled shit all my life
and now I'm dumping it on...

Chorus X2
White America!
I could be one of your kids
White America!
Little Eric looks just like this
White America!
Erica loves my shit
I go to TRL, look how many hugs I get

Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself,
if they were brown Shady lose, Shady sits on the shelf
but Shady's cute,
Shady knew Shady's dimples would help,
make ladies swoon baby, ooh baby! Look at my sales
Lets do the math, If I was black I would've sold half, I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that
but I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back, gimme the mic, show me where the fuckin' studio's atWhen I was underground, no one gave a fuck I was white, no labels wanted to sign me almost gave up, I was like
Fuck it, until I met Dre, the only one to look past, gave me a chance, and I lit a fire up under his asshelped him get back to the top, every fan black that I got was probably his in exchange for every white fan that he's got
Like damn, we just swapped. Sittin' back lookin' at shit, wow, I'm like my skin is it starting to work to my benefit now?
Chorus X2

See the problem is I speak to suburban kids who otherwise would of never knew these words existwhose moms probably woulda never gave two squirts of piss, till I created so much motherfuckin' turbulencestraight out the tube, right into your living room I came, and kids flipped when they knew I was produced by DreThat's all it took, and they were instantly hooked right in, and they connected with me too because I looked like themthat's why they put my lyrics up under this microscope, searchin' with a fine tooth comb, its like this rope waitin' to choke, tightening around my throat, watching me while I write this, like I don't like this (Nope)All I hear is: lyrics, lyrics, constant controversy, sponsors working round the clock, to try to stop my concerts earlysurely hip hop was never a problem in Harlem only in Boston, after it bothered the fathers of daughters starting to blossomso now I'm catchin' the flack from these activists when they raggin', actin' like I'm the first rapper to smack a bitch, or say faggotshit, just look at me like I'm your closest pal, the posterchild, the mother fuckin' spokesman now for...

Chorus X2


So to the parents of America I am the derringer aimed at little Erica, to attack her character The ringleader of this circus of worthless pawns Sent to lead the march right up to the steps of Congress And piss on the lawns of the White House and replace it with a Parental Advisory sticker To spit liquor in the faces of in this democracy of hypocrisy Fuck you Ms. Cheney! Fuck you Tipper Gore! Fuck you with the freest of speech this divided states of embarassment will allow me to have, Fuck you! I'm just kiddin' America, you know I love you...

 

[RudeNastyAssBitch]

That's it.

Bad poet.
Good performance art.

 

[Problem Child]

(In reference to the lyrics of White America)


So he is saying there:

A) I'm white and therefore I'm selling twice as many cd's as the biggest black artist, simply because I am white.

B) I say controversial things. Not deep things, or thoughtful things, just controversial things, and now they be tryin' to censor me.

C) I am a spokesman for the army of disenfranchised white youth who are eager for my message. I am their spokesman.



So...He's probably right about selling more cd's because he's white. There are still a lot of parents that get uptight when little johnny wants to buy Ice Cube, but when the see Marshall Mathers cute face on the cover, they fork over the $16.95.

I just don't see what his message is, other than "Hey I can say lots of bad words and promote really horrible ideas about violence against my family, and homosexuals and others and it sells lots of records." Yay for him.

Lastly, I think he vastly over-estimates his own importance.

 

[Problem Child]

Like I said, he's a performance artist (though he probably doesn't realize it). A performance artist uses a cannon to blow away the wall surrounding your gut, and bring out an extreme emotion (as opposed to a theatre artist who hopes to mirror the human condition via drama, conflict and relationship). Eminem uses his characters and harsh words to get at the truth of the existence shared by an ignored minority, so there's value there. It's not musical value, or prose value, and he offers no real dialogue or commentary, but there's value.


I have no doubt that Eminem will never have that kind of effect on this country. My point is that any man who can expose wounds effectively has some value.

Okay, I'll take your word he's a performance artist by your definition, and I gree his value is very little to none.

If you look at the two songs that Basia posted, they are both about....Eminem! Not much else basically. I mean, are crazy fans that kill their girlfriends really such a huge problem that the socially aware Eminem just had to write a rap song about them?

Some of the other rap that I'm familiar with deals with racism and poverty and other things. Not just eminem and some nutzoid fan.

 

[BBD]

Well if we're going to start using socially redeeming value as part of the criteria, I submit that a lot of "popular" music is screwed.

Why do you want an explanation again?

 

[70/30]

Yo! Eminem's like, you know, this white guy who, like hangs with Dr. Dre. I dunno who he is, 'cept that he hangs like with Snoop Dogg. So like Eminem is like down with Snoop Dogg and Ja Rule and he's like you know saying this shit that's like wack and shit.

-------------------------------

Or maybe it's just that white kids listen to him because they don't want to get their ass kicked for lsitening to real gangsta rap like old-school NWA. Shit. They don't even know who NWA is.

SHUT UP AND STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW, LIKE CHEESEBURGERS.

 

[medjay]

Eminem is a victim of his own success. I remember years ago before anyone had ever heard of him I got my hands on his first underground tape (the one Dr. Dre heard which prompted him to sign Eminem to his label).

It was a good tape. Decent beats, clever rhymes; he had a distinct style and cadence. The minute he blew up and became popular he lost the hunger and style he originally had and became a character. And everyone knows that in the pop world, relying on a character is not the smartest move because you appeal to a certain group of fans and risk losing them if you change and getting stale if you don't elevate.

He's a talented rapper but has made the mistake of believing his own hype. Now he must continue to create music as a character he is probably tired of. I know I'm tired of him, mainly because his Slim Shady persona is ridiculous and his new introspective Marshall Mathers persona doesn't move me as being all that sincere.

 

[Problem Child]

BBD-

Actually I asked for any example of at least one out of four criteria.

I also never said that there wasn't lots of other music that didn't have social value. That would be silly.