Plagiarism

[TheRainMan]

I am having an on-going communication (in the commentary section of her poem itself) with the poster of a poem today, Thundergiver.

I have noticed that a past poem of hers is plagiarized, in my opinion. There seems no question about it to me. Since she will not admit to copying the poem I have told her I was going to post it here (along with the poem she copied it from, in my opinion), which she said was fine, so the poets could decide for themselves.

I believe the poem is blatant plagiarism (which, of course, makes me look at all her work in a suspicious light) and should be removed by Literotica, however that is done.

Here is the original poem in question:


We Wear the Mask by Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906)

WE wear the mask that grins and lies,
It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,—
This debt we pay to human guile;
With torn and bleeding hearts we smile,
And mouth with myriad subtleties.

Why should the world be over-wise,
In counting all our tears and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us, while
We wear the mask.

We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries
To thee from tortured souls arise.
We sing, but oh the clay is vile
Beneath our feet, and long the mile;
But let the world dream otherwise,
We wear the mask!



Here is the poem that Thundergiver posted (along with a very specific copyright warning, which I find quite amusing, in light of this):


Copyright © 2003
This is an original work and as such is protected under the copyright laws of the United States. Please do not duplicate, copy, print, distribute or exchange this piece without the expressed written permission.


As we seemly wear a mask, that grins and lies.
We hide ourselves within our own eyes.
This debt we pay has no name.
As our bleeding hearts smile, without shame
As our mouths betray us with subtleties.

Would we in our world ever recognize?
For we know of all our tears and sighs?
Not all can see when we wear the mask.

We smile, but, to tear with cries.
From tortured souls we arise.
We delete, and dispose of unwanted memories.
Beneath it all mankind, has been doing so for centuries.
Would the world of dream be otherwise.
As we betray ourselves.
We wear the mask.


It seems incomprehensible to me that she denies copying from the original.

I would like to know if I am seeing things that are not there. I think not.

I would also like to know how to go about getting this poem taken down from Literotica, unless proper credit is given to Paul Dunbar.

 

[WickedEve]

Good grief. I read her comments.
I reported it.

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

Oh, it's very obvious! I dislike reviewers who are anonymous and slam, but you were right. This person deserved it.

Where's Eve when you need her? Or PM Laurel right away. This is something I think she'll get right on.

<nods head>

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

Good grief. I read her comments.
I reported it.

Damn, you're quick!

 

[WickedEve]

It could be a poem she read years ago and "forgot" about. But it's more than just inspiration. Less than half is changed.

 

[TheRainMan]

Good grief. I read her comments.
I reported it.

Thank you, Eve.

I have no idea how to report it, or to whom.

Oh, it's very obvious! I dislike reviewers who are anonymous and slam, but you were right. This person deserved it.

Where's Eve when you need her? Or PM Laurel right away. This is something I think she'll get right on.

<nods head>

I did nothing anonymously, Christina. I also do not approve of anonymity.

Every comment I leave, there and everywhere, will always have my tag on it.

 

[jthserra]

I reported it...

Just above the comment box is an option to report a problem with the post. One of the options you can click on is Possible plagarism, after which there is a place for an explanation. I attached this link to the explanation:


We Wear the Mask

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh, no.
This is such a shame; Try dropping this, with its quotes, into google;
"Love makes nonsense of caution"

 

[bogusbrig]

Oh, no.
This is such a shame; Try dropping this, with its quotes, into google;
"Love makes nonsense of caution"

Remarkable how someone thinks they can get away with it.

Coincidence and influence has its limits.

 

[WickedEve]

Oh, no.
This is such a shame; Try dropping this, with its quotes, into google;
"Love makes nonsense of caution"

It's a poem by Linda Marie Van Tassell. I used to get submissions from her when I had a site called sexlacious. It's looks like this new poet here at lit is just lifting lines from other poems and making them her own. I have a feeling that not much she writes is original.

 

[Liar]

Of course, it could be the mother of all allusions gone horribly wrong. But I doubt it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a poem by Linda Marie Van Tassell. I used to get submissions from her when I had a site called sexlacious. It's looks like this new poet here at lit is just lifting lines from other poems and making them her own. I have a feeling that not much she writes is original.

Take any evocative phrase from thindergiver's works and put quotes around it
"Guilt has been a regular visitor" from her poem Window In Time brought up this one, called Helpless -which has a date of 1998.

Does anyone know what that teacher's tool is- that finds plagarisms by students?

 

[Tzara]

I actually have been plagiarized. Me personally, of all people. Someone cut my comments from a web page on Scandinavian fiction and pasted them in as a review on Amazon under their own name (or pseudonym, more likely). I happened across it once when I was researching new editions of work by an author I'm fond of.

Weird feeling. Kind of a combination of outrage, amusement, and sadness all at the same time.

It's a funny topic. I quote and/or parody lines of poetry by other authors all the time. For example:

Was hers the mace that lunch'd a thousand slips
and burnt the topless towers of Idiom?
Sweet Helen, make me immortal with a kiss.
I'd smoosh your tush to get this publishèd.​

in un homme est une femme is a bastardized quotation of Marlowe's

Was this the face that launched a thousand ships,
and burnt the topless towers of Ilium?
Sweet Helen, make me immortal with a kiss!​

I assume that I'm not plagiarizing Marlowe because (1) You're supposed to see that it is a quotation, though corrupted, and (2) The poem has nothing to do with the tenor and spirit of Marlowe's original.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong about this.

Another interesting case is W. D. Snodgrass' De/Compositions, which is a book in which Snodgrass (himself a Pulitzer Prize winning poet) takes famous poems and rewrites them, maintaining meter, message, etc. but taking all the life out of them. Again, this is not plagiarism as he prints the rewritten poem right next to original and the intent is pedagogical--trying to show why the original is brilliant and his "copy" is dull. A very interesting book, though best consumed in small amounts.

 

[WickedEve]

Take any evocative phrase from thindergiver's works and put quotes around it
"Guilt has been a regular visitor" from her poem Window In Time brought up this one, called Helpless -which has a date of 1998.

Does anyone know what that teacher's tool is- that finds plagarisms by students?

She's like the plagiarizer bunny. She keeps going and going and going...

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

I did nothing anonymously, Christina. I also do not approve of anonymity.

Every comment I leave, there and everywhere, will always have my tag on it.

Ah, okies. At the time (or so I thought) there was only one comment stating it was someone elses work. I assumed. Accept my apology.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I don't approve of plagiarism but isn't this the poem posted today...

index : Erotic Poetry : Vast Night Peers



Vast Night Peers
by Thundergiver ©

Vast Night Peers
Copyright © 2005
The thought of passions heat burns the night, As the moon casts its shadow.

As mystical as our mind finds us.

Rhythmic pounding pulses, and courses through us.

Throbbing want and desire increases.

Never ceases. Waves of time have their virtue.

Thrashing against Chaos.

Solitude begun our awaking. Is the essence of time nebulous?

All hope resides within our stride.

Flickers of silver light of the vast night peer.

Down upon our souls.

Would the heavens shed a tear, As we wait?

Twilight descends cloaking the world.

Time is reckless and serene.

It comes, the rising of the arrival of our light.

As does the depletion of our night.

An unpredictable force on a quest of its own.

Times journey will never cease, Nor will the we of us that is meant to be.


and TRM felt a need to trash the comment section of this poem instead of following proper channels to report another poem? Isn't that harassment? I would say plagarism is a tad bit worse but now we have a 'SLAM CRITIC' and a poem that is copied. tisk tisk

 

[WickedEve]

I don't approve of plagiarism but isn't this the poem posted today...

index : Erotic Poetry : Vast Night Peers



Vast Night Peers
by Thundergiver ©

Vast Night Peers
Copyright © 2005
The thought of passions heat burns the night, As the moon casts its shadow.

As mystical as our mind finds us.

Rhythmic pounding pulses, and courses through us.

Throbbing want and desire increases.

Never ceases. Waves of time have their virtue.

Thrashing against Chaos.

Solitude begun our awaking. Is the essence of time nebulous?

All hope resides within our stride.

Flickers of silver light of the vast night peer.

Down upon our souls.

Would the heavens shed a tear, As we wait?

Twilight descends cloaking the world.

Time is reckless and serene.

It comes, the rising of the arrival of our light.

As does the depletion of our night.

An unpredictable force on a quest of its own.

Times journey will never cease, Nor will the we of us that is meant to be.


and TRM felt a need to trash the comment section of this poem instead of following proper channels to report another poem? Isn't that harassment? I would say plagarism is a tad bit worse but now we have a 'SLAM CRITIC' and a poem that is copied. tisk tisk

Oh, Art. Why do you take up for certain kinds of poets? This woman is low--if she is indeed plagiarizing all these other poets. It appears that at least several of her poems are not original, and so I don't think she deserves the any respect in her comments area. But you go ahead and defend her, and tisk tisk rain man since he has a brain and writes good poetry.

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

I don't approve of plagiarism but isn't this the poem posted today...

index : Erotic Poetry : Vast Night Peers



Vast Night Peers
by Thundergiver ©

Vast Night Peers
Copyright © 2005
The thought of passions heat burns the night, As the moon casts its shadow.

As mystical as our mind finds us.

Rhythmic pounding pulses, and courses through us.

Throbbing want and desire increases.

Never ceases. Waves of time have their virtue.

Thrashing against Chaos.

Solitude begun our awaking. Is the essence of time nebulous?

All hope resides within our stride.

Flickers of silver light of the vast night peer.

Down upon our souls.

Would the heavens shed a tear, As we wait?

Twilight descends cloaking the world.

Time is reckless and serene.

It comes, the rising of the arrival of our light.

As does the depletion of our night.

An unpredictable force on a quest of its own.

Times journey will never cease, Nor will the we of us that is meant to be.


and TRM felt a need to trash the comment section of this poem instead of following proper channels to report another poem? Isn't that harassment? I would say plagarism is a tad bit worse but now we have a 'SLAM CRITIC' and a poem that is copied. tisk tisk

I understand what you're saying, Art. I just read this and didn't have anything to say because I'm not very trusting of the "poet" now. I guess the comments should be left on the ONE poem accused since it's very obvious that the "poet" did this. I wrote my comment on the one that was plagiarized. And no, I was not very nice. I am left with no respect or trust towards this person.

Now, tell me, (and I'm not being smart) how in the world can we trust what the writer writes? For me, I have decided not to comment on this persons work. There will always be suspicions.

The best thing for this person to do would be to start over FRESH, making another name here on Lit. Just my take on it.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

and tisk tisk rain man since he has a brain and writes good poetry.

Oh eve...that is a matter of opinion, how can a new poet such as TRM leave a comment to sack that his poem was not up to usual standards yet sack hasn't posted a poem since TRM come to lit?


pssst eve...we all have brains just incase your not aware of that <grin...

You were the one that informed me that the public comments forum was not a place for such things????????? "remember?"

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I understand what you're saying, Art. I just read this and didn't have anything to say because I'm not very trusting of the "poet" now. I guess the comments should be left on the ONE poem accused since it's very obvious that the "poet" did this. I wrote my comment on the one that was plagiarized. And no, I was not very nice. I am left with no respect or trust towards this person.

Now, tell me, (and I'm not being smart) how in the world can we trust what the writer writes? For me, I have decided not to comment on this persons work. There will always be suspicions.

The best thing for this person to do would be to start over FRESH, making another name here on Lit. Just my take on it.

laughing >>. that is so true and that creates an even greater problem <grin> I didn't and don't approve of the copy infringement in any way, I was steered awhile back as to "how to go about handling such problems" but it is okay for The Rain Man to verbally attack some one on the comment forum, this was my point... enlighten...the brain... how to go about dealing with such a situation is all I am saying...also inform him it is not recommended to post links in the comment section as well <grin

so now I sit with dis-trust for both poets!!!!

 

[WickedEve]

Oh eve...that is a matter of opinion, how can a new poet such as TRM leave a comment to sack that his poem was not up to usual standards yet sack hasn't posted a poem since TRM come to lit?


pssst eve...we all have brains just incase your not aware of that <grin...

You were the one that informed me that the public comments forum was not a place for such things????????? "remember?"

I'm just disgusted that you have a problem with rain man and you don't seem to have one with the plagiarizer.
And I had a feeling you'd make a brain comment. I started to edit it to say "good brain" or some such nonsense, but thought I'd let you have your moment.
As far as using the public comments, who cares in this case. She seems to already have several poems that are not all hers. She needs to have all her poems and comments deleted if Laurel finds that she is a plagiarizer. Plagiarism is so low.

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

how can a new poet such as TRM leave a comment to sack that his poem was not up to usual standards yet sack hasn't posted a poem since TRM come to lit?

I hate to butt in here, but I'm going to. Sack had two poems out today. Have I mistaken what you're saying? TRM was here. Also, here's another question: is a "new" poet on Lit make them new to poetry? And if so, should they not voice their opinion when it's up for voting?

And please, don't anyone bite my head off. I just have some questions.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Plagiarism is so low.

I agree whole heartedly

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I hate to butt in here, but I'm going to. Sack had two poems out today. Have I mistaken what you're saying? TRM was here. Also, here's another question: is a "new" poet on Lit make them new to poetry? And if so, should they not voice their opinion when it's up for voting?

And please, don't anyone bite my head off. I just have some questions.

If you read two poems by a poet...or even three...are you going to say, "This is not up to your usual form?" Not unless you have read that poet for quite awhile will you mention something to that affect...<grin 'New Poet?' I think not...

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

laughing >>. that is so true and that creates an even greater problem <grin> I didn't and don't approve of the copy infringement in any way, I was steered awhile back as to "how to go about handling such problems" but it is okay for The Rain Man to verbally attack some one on the comment forum, this was my point... enlighten...the brain... how to go about dealing with such a situation is all I am saying...also inform him it is not recommended to post links in the comment section as well <grin

so now I sit with dis-trust for both poets!!!!

1.) Whatcha laughing at?

2.) You did notice other "not so happy" remarks made on this poem besides TRM, didn't you?

3.) I know the rules about not putting links there, but why do I see links saying "Your poem has been mentioned in the new poem reviews"?? It's still the same. A link is a link, right? Maybe someone could PM instead, but when it comes to "new poem reviews", it seems not to be a problem?? I guess if you want to be nice, it's okay, but other than that, it's not?? I remember Brinnie reading my poetry and commenting by putting links to really scary looking buttholes.