Pet Peeve - Lack of Conflict

[ShyChiWriter]

I've been in more of a reading mood lately. As always, I've found some well-written stories and some real dogs.

As I was reading, I realize the one thing that bugs me more than anything else: lack of conflict and friction.

Especially when they've just met, it drives me nuts when the characters just get together with no hesitation.

Sure, at a swinger's party there aren't any barriers. A couple could be married, I suppose that eliminates the need for hesitation - but other than a quickie, even a married couple making love has good foreplay (at least in stories).

Those categories aside, so many stories on here are about strangers meeting, first dates, the list goes on. By letting the characters slide together right away, literally, it lets all of the air out of the tires.

On the surface, making it easy simply saps believability out of the story. It goes deeper than that, though. The root of the problem is it just isn't as interesting. I read a story where two college students who were committed to other people decided to masturbate together, all in the space of about ten seconds - naked, no less.

We've all read the scenario where one character catches another one in some state of compromise. Naked, fucking, masturbating. The interesting stories are the ones that let the characters dwell on that - the boring ones are the ones that have the catcher just walk up to the catch-ee and just start pounding away, which of course the naked/masturbating/fucking person is absolutely accepting of.

I'm not trying to be moral here. I'm talking about basic, dramatic storytelling. If there's no negotiation, there's no tension. If there's no tension, there's no interest - at least not for me.

 

[sr71plt]

Yep. Most of those would be one we called vignettes. In the mainstream its usually seen as a "slice of life" description that is mainly found in women's fiction. here it's mainly seen in isolated sex scenes posted as stories. (And there's a market for those here.) A story, however, pretty much requires conflict/dilemma.

 

[ShyChiWriter]

Yep. Most of those would be one we called vignettes. In the mainstream its usually seen as a "slice of life" description that is mainly found in women's fiction. here it's mainly seen in isolated sex scenes posted as stories. (And there's a market for those here.) A story, however, pretty much requires conflict/dilemma.

I'm cool with a quick scene - it is when there is sort of half a setup and then an easy get-together that I lose interest.

 

[sr71plt]

I think it needs the preparation you appear to seek to really be erotica. But a lot of readers come here just for the quick release. It's a superbig site on story file, so it can cater to a wide range of expectations.

I admit to writing on both ends of the spectrum depending on the mood I'm in when I write.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I readily admit that I write mostly the kind of story that Shy is describing. Some of them are about people having an ongoing relationship, but many are about people getting it on within minutes of meeting. After all, it is a fantasy porn site. In the GM section, these quicky relationships are actually true to life.

I could write a long novel about a star-crossed couple who meet and try to get together for years, but it would be boring to me and probably to readers.

 

[driphoney]

Like most amateurs on this site, I'm pretty new to this whole story writing thing. I can do some decent dialogue, make a fairly good tender moment, build a scene and even inject humor, oh, and manipulate through a sex scene. But create believable tension is a struggle for me. Finding the 'rub', the problem . . . not so easy for some of us.

Are you a writer?

 

[bronzeage]

Like most amateurs on this site, I'm pretty new to this whole story writing thing. I can do some decent dialogue, make a fairly good tender moment, build a scene and even inject humor, oh, and manipulate through a sex scene. But create believable tension is a struggle for me. Finding the 'rub', the problem . . . not so easy for some of us.

Are you a writer?

Make one of them a vampire and the other a werewolf. Never fails.

 

[driphoney]

Make one of them a vampire and the other a werewolf. Never fails.

I'll take it under advisement.

 

[xssve]

Him: I vant to suck your... blaaaaaahd!

Her: Rawr!

Hey, that does work!

 

[driphoney]

Him: I vant to suck your... blaaaaaahd!

Her: Rawr!

Hey, that does work!

You have definitely made his point.

Now, we just need to insert a little sex.

 

[DeeZire]

Check out this author:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=17146&page=submissions

Dafney DeWitt, who is not on any of the top lists, has 3 green E's out of 7 stories.. The green E's indicate that a LIT editor thought the story was a cut above the norm. As you may come to find, the top lists don't necessarily indicate quality work, but rather, work that reaches the lowest common denominator.

Sometimes, if you find a LIT author you like, you can check their profile and see who their favorite LIT authors are - if they have listed any.

Another LIT author who seems to focus more on plot than sex scenes is this one, although his Valentine story was a little too dry for me:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=1026012&page=submissions

I'm sure there are others, like Dr M, and Zeb_Carter. Perhaps someone will post more links for the OP?

(Yes, I know... I've left out many great authors who post here. Blame it on my advanced case of C.R.S. ((Can't Remember Shit)) )

 

[ShyChiWriter]

Driphoney - yeah, I'm a writer - mostly playwriting, which makes me extra sensitive to conflict and tension.

I agree with many of the above comments - and in many ways, you are right.

In a way, the topic discussed in this very thread are one of the conundrums of the adult film industry. There was an article a little while ago, in the NY Times actually, about story vs sex in porn. About ten years ago, story was the rage and they were making a lot of features. Now, with sites like Videobox and YouPorn, etc. - the 'winning' formula is quick slam-bam thank you ma'am. Story doesn't matter so much - often, there's no story at all. That isn't to say there aren't still some film makers striving for story, but in general the compilations are cheaper to make and still sell the same.

The same is true for Literotica. Absolutely, there are lots of 'spankin' stories that do exactly what they are supposed to ; )

I think my writing certainly falls in the 'too much' category at times. The ready-to-stroke reader will look down at the bottom of the first page and if they see 4-5-6 on the number of pages listing, they'll switch over to a story that delivers in quick fashion.

Referring back to the adult film analogy, what I'd much rather see is something along the lines of a story just starting with - "Annalise cried out as Tom began pounding her once more from behind. Her mind was still reeling at how they'd gone from a simple handshake to hardcore fucking in the space of a few minutes."

With that small line of exposition, it allows the reader to fill in the blanks of what tension happened and what negotiations occurred to get them together. Just like adult film, a guy suddenly whipping it out and the woman just deciding to gobble it down tends to lose me.

But, like SR71 pointed out, there's something for everyone. I've certainly gotten more than turned on by an adult film if it is shot well and the actors have chemistry, regardless of the setup. Same is true of many stories on here - I've found many that have great sex, it is just the overall arc, how we arrive there, that is often frustrating.

Deezire, thanks for the recommendations. I'll definitely check them out.

The Afflicted - A Multiracial Incestuous Vampire Novel set in the 19th Century

All of my stories

 

[sr71plt]

Another LIT author who seems to focus more on plot than sex scenes . . .

I sort of wonder why it's a sin to emphasize the sex more than the plot on an erotica writing site. I agree that it's nice to have a full-blown plot and characterization (which I usually try for), but I'm writing it and posting it here (most of the time--I do post some nonerotic here too) precisely because the emphasis is on the sex.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The difference between porn and regular fiction is that the goal of porn is to sexually arouse, which it can do by being merely descriptive. Description is pretty easy to do, and human beings are so wired (or most men are, at least), that all it takes is the most basic description of two bodies engaged in sex to arouse a reader.

So most of the stories here are simply descriptions of people having sex. Maybe the author is imaginative enough to use a setting or circumstance to wring a little extra heat out of the sex--it happens between relatives, or social unequals, or in a rain storm, whatever--but this is pretty much all they need in ordr to write a story. You might call this primary level porn, because it doesn't go very deep.

A more skilled or perceptive or curious author might realize that the real erotic heat in a a story comes not from what the characters do, but from what they feel, and so their stories are going to be deeper, more nuanced and psychological, and closer to what we recognize as literature, with its tensions and drama and conflict. They're going to be able to exploit the more subtle eroticism of a relationship or situation.

Remember that a lot of people (I'm tempted to say mostly men here, but I don't want to start a controversy) don't need any context or explanation for the sex they witness in order to get aroused. Consider porn videos, with next to no plot or tension or characterization and replete with meat shots of penises penetrating vaginas for minutes on end, yet immensely popular and more than sufficient for most guys' masturbatory needs.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I sort of wonder why it's a sin to emphasize the sex more than the plot on an erotica writing site. I agree that it's nice to have a full-blown plot and characterization (which I usually try for), but I'm writing it and posting it here (most of the time--I do post some nonerotic here too) precisely because the emphasis is on the sex.

I'm with you on that one. I think it's the exact opposite sin, actually, to emphasize plot over sex. It's the sin of failing to know the audience. If Lit were subjectively selective in favor of the audience's preferences, plotty stories would be minimal. Sure, there are a number of people who like plot heavy stories where it builds up to the sex, but that's generally not what people come here for. They want to spooge. The average Lit reader has a mouse in one hand and a set of genitalia in the other. To think otherwise is to fool oneself.

The first question a writer must answer when submitting work to a publication is "does my work fit the audience?" The penance for committing the sin of not knowing the audience is usually a rejection form letter. At Lit, the penance for the sin is lower scores and some frustration at wondering why consistently written jerk stories get better ratings than a consistently written plotty stories.

A really, really good Lit writer can consistently do hot sex and hot plot without the less-than-hot buildup usually seen in plot

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt
I sort of wonder why it's a sin to emphasize the sex more than the plot on an erotica writing site. I agree that it's nice to have a full-blown plot and characterization (which I usually try for), but I'm writing it and posting it here (most of the time--I do post some nonerotic here too) precisely because the emphasis is on the sex.

I'm with you on that one. I think it's the exact opposite sin, actually, to emphasize plot over sex. It's the sin of failing to know the audience. If Lit were subjectively selective in favor of the audience's preferences, plotty stories would be minimal. Sure, there are a number of people who like plot heavy stories where it builds up to the sex, but that's generally not what people come here for. They want to spooge. The average Lit reader has a mouse in one hand and a set of genitalia in the other. To think otherwise is to fool oneself.

The first question a writer must answer when submitting work to a publication is "does my work fit the audience?" The penance for committing the sin of not knowing the audience is usually a rejection form letter. At Lit, the penance for the sin is lower scores and some frustration at wondering why consistently written jerk stories get better ratings than a consistently written plotty stories.

A really, really good Lit writer can consistently do hot sex and hot plot without the less-than-hot buildup usually seen in plot

I agree with both of you. Some of my stories actually include plot and character development, but I mostly prefer writing graphic descriptions of fun sex. That's what I prefer and that's what I do.

If I were to receive two critiques, and one said: "I am Professor Pecksniff of the Modern Fiction Department of Podunk University, and your story would never be acceptable to us at PU. It seems all the characters did was to start copulating, with no motivation and no explanation as to why. The characters were extremely underdeveloped and there was no plot or conflict of any kind.

And the other said: "Wow! that was a hot story. I had my fingers on my clit and my dildo in my pussy before I was through with the second paragraph. I came at the same time as Cindy Lou and again when she came the second time. I'm going to read more stories about this girl."

I would laugh at the first one and feel gratified at the second one, because the second writer is the person I am mostly writing for, to the degree I am writing for anybody but myself.

 

[Xelebes]

Though, there is the option of writing a whole story with the only action being that of sex or multiple instances of sex.

 

[LaRocha]

I don't like how everyone uses the same conflict scenarios. "Will we get caught?" "Will we bone or not?" "Iz they cheating on me wiff nother LolCat?"

I prefer well made descriptions of boning to halfhearted attempts at storytelling used only to set up the boning.

 

[DeeZire]

I'm with you on that one. I think it's the exact opposite sin, actually, to emphasize plot over sex. It's the sin of failing to know the audience. If Lit were subjectively selective in favor of the audience's preferences, plotty stories would be minimal. Sure, there are a number of people who like plot heavy stories where it builds up to the sex, but that's generally not what people come here for. They want to spooge. The average Lit reader has a mouse in one hand and a set of genitalia in the other. To think otherwise is to fool oneself.

If everyone wrote for the average LIT reader, this would be an incredibly average place. I admit to having a skewed perspective, since I don't see conformity as a virtue. Of course, if I was getting paid for my writing, (like Scouries ) I'm sure I'd see things differently.

 

[sr71plt]

If everyone wrote for the average LIT reader, this would be an incredibly average place. I admit to having a skewed perspective, since I don't see conformity as a virtue. Of course, if I was getting paid for my writing, (like Scouries ) I'm sure I'd see things differently.

Right. But there are, I think gradients, of what is appropriate for a Web site. This is an erotica Web site and makes no bones about it. I've always scratched my head at posters here who have self-righteously posted that THEIR work focuses on plot and characterization and, at the extreme, is completely (pat, pat on the back) nonerotic (while these self same people weigh in on how erotica should be written). The focus here at Literotica stretches from erotica to porn. There are lots of other sites focusing on the nonerotic. Those who actually write for the stated target audience shouldn't be made to feel inferior --or their stories less favorable--in what they write here.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I read incest stories, and incest stories without conflict are just boring. There needs to be some setup where the characters could get each other into trouble. There has to be some resistance being worn away for it to be fun. When entire families just jump into bed with each other just because the story has begun, I back click and find something with a little more substance.

 

[xssve]

I think the inherent moral/psychological conflict in incest stories is a large part of their appeal, i.e., "forbidden fruits" - among other things. It doesn't take much to amplify that conflict, so easy, I sort think of it as "cheating", from a writerly perspective.

If you can't generate any conflict in an incest story, that is pretty lame.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Read My Triplets. A mother just decides that her family will constantly fuck for the rest of eternity just because her three sons are now 18.

All it is, from the third or fourth paragraph on, is sex. The only reason it takes four paragraphs is so the mother can describe herself and her sons. It leaves out the fact that she also has a daughter that is introduced out of nowhere about halfway through. It is poor writing from start to finish (which I don't think I did, not from reading this anyway).

Don't you just love it when a writer adds important characters halfway through, as if they had been there the entire time? As if we have any idea who they are?

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think it's any elaborate "set up" of the dilemma that's needed for incest stories here. It's known and it's pretty much the same for all, so it would get ho hum real fast in setting it up each time. What it needs is a maintenance of the unstated tension throughout the "story" so the reader can (must) feel the complexity and danger throughout. Lacking this, you've got what most sex videos provide--bald technical rather than creative technique.

 

[driphoney]

I don't like how everyone uses the same conflict scenarios. "Will we get caught?" "Will we bone or not?" "Iz they cheating on me wiff nother LolCat?"

I prefer well made descriptions of boning to halfhearted attempts at storytelling used only to set up the boning.

We all have our likes and dislikes. By The Powers That Be on Lit allowing a broad range talent and type, it encourages availability of new material.

If everyone wrote for the average LIT reader, this would be an incredibly average place. I admit to having a skewed perspective, since I don't see conformity as a virtue. Of course, if I was getting paid for my writing, (like Scouries ) I'm sure I'd see things differently.

True, but there's nothing wrong with that, is there? Everyone writes just like they read, for their own motivations and interests. Some take it more seriously, or just have a better understanding of literature or writing.

Right. But there are, I think gradients, of what is appropriate for a Web site. This is an erotica Web site and makes no bones about it. I've always scratched my head at posters here who have self-righteously posted that THEIR work focuses on plot and characterization and, at the extreme, is completely (pat, pat on the back) nonerotic (while these self same people weigh in on how erotica should be written). The focus here at Literotica stretches from erotica to porn. There are lots of other sites focusing on the nonerotic. Those who actually write for the stated target audience shouldn't be made to feel inferior --or their stories less favorable--in what they write here.

I've seen a little of this, too. While I'm grateful Lit allows non-erotic and "low"-erotic stories, I'm frankly a little embarrassed that my own interests run more toward romance. Maybe I should find a romance forum to hang out on, but this is where I started (looking for free reads) and where I plugged my stories in, and I also don't have to worry that my sex scenes are too extreme.

I think some of the "I'm now above writing sex," (SOME, not all) comes from the fact that writing sex well is hard for some of us, and doing it about the twentieth time becomes a real struggle as you try to find a way to say the same thing a different way. It's like, okay, I've done the couch, I've done the bed, the table, the barn, the car, the truck, the van, the spanking, this hole, that hole, 3 holes at once, whipped cream, the banana, the vibe, the whip, . . . .

I agree that everyone should be encouraged to write at whatever level they find themselves and whatever style interests them.

I read incest stories, and incest stories without conflict are just boring. There needs to be some setup where the characters could get each other into trouble. There has to be some resistance being worn away for it to be fun. When entire families just jump into bed with each other just because the story has begun, I back click and find something with a little more substance.

We all back-click, don't we? What's boring for one isn't for the next. I've seen stories on Top Lists that make me go . For the life of me I can't figure out what makes this or that "also-ran" of a stroker garner such high scores when there are ten thousand more just like it from what I can tell. Obviously, whatever about that particular story that makes it top dog is not hitting me the same way. *Shrug*