Personal Pride or Latent Insecurity?

[Madame Pandora]

This expands a bit from Bri’s “Venting” post, but I think it warrants another thread.

When I was a little girl I was taught to not care what anyone else thought, to think for myself, and to act according to my own inclinations and conscience.

I was also taught about what my Grammy called “personal pride.” In my particular culture, this was composed of simple personal hygiene issues that included showering in the morning, after exercise, and in the afternoon if I was sweaty (Florida, remember). It meant brushing my hair, putting on light make-up, making sure my clothes were appropriate and unwrinkled, etc. Oddly, it also included behavior elements. Not making a scene. Keeping my private affairs private. Saying “please” and “thank you.” Having a sense of humor, a sense of decency, and sense of self.

Here on the board, there are elements of “personal pride” that I know I exhibit and I see in others. Part of it is the content of posts (I am not so interested in expanding upon that. Suffice to say, even here when I impart a bit of personal information I still keep my private life private). Part of it is the presentation of posts. Bri mentioned spelling. I am mildly dyslexic and, as such, I spell check every post and IM (I have for years) – although I still manage to miss a great deal of juxtaposed letters and such. I also try to space and punctuate my posts in a way that makes them more readable to the eye. To me, it is a simple matter of the way I’m presenting myself, and partially respect for the reader(s). I know there are spelling issues for those from other countries, but I have seen many people who are not thoroughly versed with the language still make their posts more readable. The effort does not go unnoticed on me.

When I see a badly written, badly spelled clump of a post (usually all one paragraph) I see (in my mind) a lazy person with uncombed air and stains on their shirt. I think “ignorance.”

But, really, when you consider it…that person is still getting their point across, and simply doesn’t care about the technicalities. And it makes me wonder…

Here I am, a woman who prides myself on not caring about the approval of others – yet I wear make-up and spell check my posts.

MP

 

[DarlingBri]

Here I am, a woman who prides myself on not caring about the approval of others – yet I wear make-up and spell check my posts.

Because looking after yourself, and taking care in your appearence and that of your posts, are exhibitions of confidence.

Only the very confident and the very in love do not need the approval of others.

 

[nitengale]

Good old fashion pride is not something that is easily shelved.

Kudos to you!

 

[nitengale]

Because looking after yourself, and taking care in your appearence and that of your posts, are exhibitions of confidence.

Only the very confident and the very in love do not need the approval of others.

Amen!

 

[DevilMayCare]

Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody is looking.

H.L. Mencken

 

[Mischka]

When I was a little girl I was taught to not care what anyone else thought, to think for myself, and to act according to my own inclinations and conscience...Here I am, a woman who prides myself on not caring about the approval of others – yet I wear make-up and spell check my posts.

I don't see any contradiction in your behavior or thoughts. Perhaps instead of placing no emphasis on other's opinions, your own opinion of yourself is rightfully paramount. And spell-checking and make-up are not concessions to others, but an aspect of how you choose to present yourself. You strike me as a woman that would forgo either if you damn well felt like it.

 

[Temptress_1960]

I think it has to do with feeling good about yourself.

For some people, spelling, punctuation and grammar are just not real important. For others, those things are very important.

I cringe whenever I make a typo that I don't or can't correct. But I'm ok with typos that other people make. I know that for some, it just isn't a priority or maybe writing isn't a strong point. As long as I can understand what they mean, well, that's what really counts.

I also feel uncomfortable when my socks don't coordinate with the rest of my clothes.... OK, so I'm a bit compulsive. And obsessive. <defensively> So what's wrong with that, anyway.

 

[Guru]

 

[Weird Harold]

When I see a badly written, badly spelled clump of a post (usually all one paragraph) I see (in my mind) a lazy person with uncombed air and stains on their shirt. I think “ignorance.”

But, really, when you consider it…that person is still getting their point across, and simply doesn’t care about the technicalities. And it makes me wonder…

Actually, often such post do not get a point across. Especially when the board is slow, I simply skim past those jumbled hard to read posts.

What you see in your mind is what I meant when I mentioned that we are only perceived according to the impressions our posts convey. More than words convey impressions of the poster. As tolerant as I try to be, neatness does count towards how I react to a post.

 

[Pyper]

Hey, MP, I'm mildly dyslexic too. Mild Dyslexics Unite!

 

[Madame Pandora]

Mild Dyslexics Unite!

You mean UNTIE!

MP

 

[CreamyLady]

As my thoughts -- while clear to me -- always seem to muddle themselves when I try to express them, I try very hard to make them as clear as possible. To this end, I will sacrifice grammar, proper usage and punctuation; I just want people to understand me.

However, while I am guilty of misspellings galore, I do try to limit them. The fear of the Red Pencil was instilled at an early age. It "took," even if a fear of hellfire did not.

I do believe that it isn't so much a case of personal pride, or even insecurity, as the duty one feels to make oneself as clear as possible. Writing that is poorly punctuated, badly spelled, and grammatically unsound is very difficult to comprehend.

You are one up on me, MP. I don't bother with the makeup.

 

[Gaucho]

Call it the benefit or the curse of an early Catholic education but I am near anal about my spelling and punctuation. During my stint as a teaching assistant in a large public school system, I became aware of the stupidity inherent in "whole-language" teaching.

Of course we mustn't give little Johnny a hard time about his spelling or punctuation (let alone his grammar) because it will stifle his creativity and if we do that, well, then little Johnny won't write anything. Leave aside for a moment the notion that one reason Johnny has trouble writing is because he doesn't read, and the reason he doesn't read is because neither one of his parents ever read to (or with) him.

So this goes on, grade after grade, until Johnny either graduates school or until he runs into a real, by-God Teacher who can't understand a thing he's written and asks him to revise it. Or he has graduated school and it's his boss that needs Johnny to write a report and suddenly the spell-check in MS Word just isn't making it. And Johnny (not so little now) says, "Huh? What?"


The flip side of this little scenario is that little Johnny just happens to be really good with computers. Knows more about them then most of his teachers (of course, that's not much of a stretch, but that's another subject) and is always happy to help with them in class. It turns out, in fact, that little Johnny is actually quite bright, it's just that writing for him is somewhere down below learning cursive on the interest scale.

Then little Johnny grows up and discovers Literotica. And he starts writing hot and sweaty posts or even tries his hand at an erotic story and can't for the life of him understand why he gets little or no response. Or why - gasp! - some even take the time to point out the flaws in his writing. Hell, it was good enough to get him through school, wasn't it?

As an aspiring writer, I was taught to never let anyone reject your work on appearance alone. The same thing applies here.

And MP, how'd you know I wear make-up?

 

[Starfish]

Not to avoid the subject, but I am not sure how to spell check a post. I don't have a spell checker, and although my mild dyslexia is only applicable to the word 'maybe', often left as 'mabey', I have a poor sence of spelling because I am always more concerned with content. So I could use some tech advice on a good spell checker to use online. Much appreiciated.


(You know I think Bri and MP are doing me some good. I wrote Laurel about a little problem I have been having with my location box, and being unable to put my icon over there. Hopefully we can get that fixed.)

 

[Madame Pandora]

GR -

Sadly, I don't know about internet spell checkers. I C&P everything into a word document (yes, often, even IMs) and paste it back. Although, this Word 2000 is pissing me off because it sometimes messes up word spacing and apostrophes.

MP

 

[Dillinger]

Very good thread and some well thought out responses.

I was thinking about this very subject earlier today and had almost talked myself into starting a thread about it - mostly about the spelling issue and here I find, as usual, that MP said it better.

I am pretty anal about spelling. It is something that has been ingrained in me. Both my parents were teachers. I understand that there can be some legitimate reasons as to why people have trouble with spelling (as mentioned already: dyslexia, not their native language, etc.) but, like MP, it is also possible to make an effort to do one's best. In my opinion, not making that effort is just plain lazy.

I am not talking about the occasional misspellings that we all make. I'm guilty of that as well. It happens. (So if anyone catches a misspelling in this post - don't jump all over me!) In fact, I will often review my posts after I make them and, if I see a misspelling, go in and correct them.

One of the things that has this at the top of my head lately is the thread "One sentince story." This is a fun idea and I'm sure a number of people are enjoying it, which is why it has been on the first page of the BB for a couple of days now. I have to say, I CRINGE every time I see it. When I first came to the BB if I had seen a page full of spelling mistakes like that I probably would never have returned (and maybe some of you would be glad for that).

A comment was made about how one can check for spelling errors. Here are a couple of suggestions:

• If you have a word processor, type your post in the word processor and, when finished, copy and paste it into the thread. This is particularly effective if you have the option to use auto-correct. A side benefit of this would be that as you do this consistently you will come to recognize the mistakes you make regularly and perhaps improve your spelling in the process.
• If you don't have a word processor, which is pretty rare these days, then try http://www.webster.com - for this to be effective you'll have to at least have some idea of the words you might have misspelled and then you can check them on the site.

 

[dza]

latent insecurity is called humanity

 

[Laurel]

The next BB upgrade (to come in a month) will include a spellcheck. Whether it is used is another story. lol...

I don't think it's healthy to not give a damn about what ANYONE thinks. I've known people like that, and they never learn a thing. My interactions with people change me for the better. The trick is keeping the relevant input and discarding the irrelevant...When I was younger, I used to take every bitchy snip to heart, and was constantly trying to please everyone. THAT'S wrong. Putting your best face forward...that's not wrong.

MP, I like the analogy between personal grooming and spelling/grammar. I - like most everyone - am attracted to confident people. Truly confident people aren't always the best looking, but they carry themselves in such a way that you feel good being around them. You enjoy their company. Posts broken down into reasonably sized paragraphs with a minimum number of grammar/spelling mistakes (I don't fret over typos, but when I have to phonetically sound out words to figure out WTF the person is trying to say...argh) are inviting to the eye and a pleasure to read. They make me more receptive to the ideas contained in them.

I grew up as a poor kid in a wealthy area. I was picked on for years because of my bad haircut and hand-me-down too-short jeans and too-tight last year's fashion tops. I firmly believed that only people with money could have friends and be popular...but looking back, I can remember other poor kids who lived 'happy' lives. They weren't the best dressed, but they were neat and clean. They never slouched. They made eye contact. They exuded CONFIDENCE. Those kids weren't the homecoming court, but they had FRIENDS. Other kids reacted positively to them. I, on the other hand, walked around slouching with my eyes on the ground. If I had met myself, I wouldn't have felt compelled to be my friend either. (And then Manu kissed me and turned me from a frog into a princess...but that's another story...)

Similarly, you don't have to be the most intelligent poster on the site (or the most respected, or the best looking) to get a good reaction from the board. Just PRESENT yourself well. Put time into your posts. Take care in the words you choose. Make a post that you would enjoy reading. It doesn't have to be Pulitzer prize-winning. Even if it's just your take on penis size, how you present your opinion makes all the difference in how people take it. If your post is readable, people will be more likely to read and enjoy it.

 

[Starfish]

Laurel, that is excellent news about the upcoming version of Lit....untill then I will c&p everything...no big whoop!


Thanks MP and Dillinger..very helpful of you.

I wish I could contribute to the subject here, but I find issues like this to be so individualized that it is hard to adress. Maybe it would help to review how you have responded, in your life experiances, to others giving you imput about your appearance(good or bad) and see what feelings arise. Interpreting one's self is the biggest challenge a human can face, but it is not a challenge to be ignored.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Thanks, G.R.

I wasn't looking so much for personal guidance as the input on others - to see if they had similar feelings or experiences

It's one of those questions only *I* can answer. I just like fostering discussions on the things I find conflicting.

MP

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Wow, what a cool thread.

So many things to say here, and mostly inresponse to individual posts, so bear with me please.

• Mandame Pandora - you are what you are, a product of your upbringing. I don't think it's pride or latent insecurities (though those are just being human as dza points out). I think it's just you being you. Don't stop.
• Pyper - come join the DNA with me. Thats the National Dyslexia Association.
• Weird Harlod - I agree, a long MP posting is much more visually inviting than a badly written single paragraph a quarter of the lenght. I will often skip past these posts.
• Creamy Lady - I was never taught to fear the Red Pencil, sometimes I regret it. I'm sure Gaucho took his little story straight off my Bio.
• G.R. - post this line to your location in your profile (the one in the members area, not the one accessed via the board) <img src="http://grspicturesandstuff.homestead.com/files/kellsbeasts1.jpg" alt="G.R.">
• Laurel - Wohoo!! Built in spell checker? Lit is complete, thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[Problem Child]

this thread rocks

Has anyone else noticed that there are no glaring spelling or grammar errors in any of the posts on this thread? I started checking as soon as I read MP's first post.

You guys are a damn smart looking bunch.

big

 

[Pyper]

Ah learnt me how to spel reel good.

 

[Iris]

Pride, definitely pride

No one here except the few who know each other IRL have anything to judge anyone else by other than what they present here. When I see a badly spelled post using poor grammar I picture someone with a beer in their hand, a ripped up old t-shirt, and 7 kids rolling around on the dirty floor with a dirty dog while the poster turns around and threatens to take the belt to them if they don't keep it down. LOL Not quite that extreme, but something similar.

While I may make the occasional typo I make an effort to spell, punctuate, and all that happy crappy correctly for 2 reasons. I believe I am intelligent...not superior to anyone, but intelligent enough to come across as such, and also I'm soon to be a teacher. I know others here are, and I want to keep a noble impression of this noble profession; at least as much as can be kept on a porn site. Yes, I realize the irony.

It's not insecurity, it's self esteem. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Comshaw]

Posted by Madame Pandora:
Here I am, a woman who prides myself on not caring about the approval of others – yet I wear make-up and spell check my posts.

There isn't a person alive that doesn't need acceptance from others some where in their life. We all have things that we will not bend on, that we will not sully by compromise. There is a lot more that we change, tweak and twist to glean the favorable view of other people. I can't, MP, say the reason you wear makeup and spell check everything is because you wish to garner that favorable opinion of others. It could be because you like the way you look with makeup. It could be because your pride demands that you display impeccable spelling and grammar. As you pointed out, you are the only one that can answer that.
I've had the opportunity over the last 20 years to take a walk-about through my soul and understand most of my motivations. not all, but most. And yes I do have those things where I must have approval from other people. I don't necessarily like it but it's there.
As for my spelling, I'm a lot more then "mildly" dyslexic. So for me correct spelling is a must. I hate to feel that gut wrenching embarrassment I always feel when I spot a misspelled word in one of my posts.
I'm also a two fingered typist. Because of a small injury to one hand it's impossible for me to get my fingers on the keyboard in the appropriate manner. So each post is an exercise in typing, checking, rewriting and re-checking, to avoid transposed words and sometimes outright gobbledy-gook.
I use a spell checker on everything I write. I found a small freeware program sometime ago that allows me to check almost any text box for spelling. It's kind of a pain to install, but once installed it runs in the background and is accessed by using a couple of hot keys. Anyone interested contact me @ comshaw@theglobe.com and I'll send you a copy.
The other thing that goes with the spelling; the better it's written, the easier it is for anyone reading it to understand what I'm trying to explain. I strive to be the best I can, and make my writing as clear as I can. How am I to expect others to understand my underlying idea, if they can't, or won't, wade through the writing because of sloppy spelling and hasty construction?
Some of us are like James Earl Jones. As a youngster he had a terrible stutter. He worked and practiced, slowing his speech, spending hours slowly and correctly pronouncing words until after years of effort he developed that outstanding, wonderful voice he has. I'm still trying to develop mine.

Comshaw