People I Don't Believe I'm Better Than (or "Why Black People Make Me Racist")

[Joe Wordsworth]

People I Don't Believe I'm Better Than (or "Why Black People Make Me Racist")

I never get tired of making thread titles interesting.

So, it was a simple situation. I went to see "The Omen". Long story short, after fifteen minutes of the loud black peopl behind me whooping and narrating the events on screen--I left. A request to please not talk was met with abrasion and shock, and I wasn't into arguing about it. It helped that I was already tired, after work (EL can appreciate that, I'm sure), and was interested in sleep just as much as the movie.

This isn't the first time I've had that happen in theaters.

Routinely, in fact, that happens. It is a common occurance, that very thing, and--yes--I rarely get the same problems from either (1) white people or (2) people who pay to get into the Director's Gallery. It just so happened, I was around neither of those two groups the last half-dozen times I've gone to see a movie.

In the end, I get in my car and think--as I've thought the last half-dozen times.. namely, "black people suck". Notably, I have few to no other racist tendancies, I'm Hispanic myself, and 80% of my staff at the hotel is black and I love them all dearly.

Just loud black people at movies make me racist for a good half-hour.

Past that, the good news is that when I went to talk to a manager about it they were unavailable and the pale, Hot-Topic pants-ed, stud-through-the-lip teenager who took my complaint went into the drawer and pulled out 7.50 and had me sign my name to the back of my ticket.

No authority to refund me... the one with authority gone... he sees me in a suit (I'd just left my hotel), trying to enjoy a movie and having it ruined for me... and he takes the initiative and gives me my money back and thinks enough ahead to have me validate that I was a customer and got the money.

If the manager jumps up his ass about being short 7.50 (I left my phone number on the ticket, too, just in case) on his drawer and doesn't accept the proof or give me a call to confirm it... he is a for-shit business man.

I have left and never returned to several theaters for this very problem, and the tool behind the ticket counter had the forsight to keep my business (and I do good theater business). That place will make tons of money off of me, my friends, and every guest interested in a movie who stays at my hotel...

...just goes to show, just because the kid has a for-shit fasion sense and a metal stud stupidly through his face, doesn't mean he isn't a really clever and valuable business asset.

 

[English Lady]

I love your thread titles -you could wirte headlines for the tabloids

I do know what you mean, I'm racist too.

I don't like white kids.

Oh yes, there is a bunch of white lads (shaven heads, base ball caps) who hang about around this area and they cause havoc. They bully the quiet, Asian lads, they pelt houses with snow/water bombs/rocks etc and shout obscenities at people walking by, racial obscenities are their speciality. I don't like'em. Thing is, now anything happens, I automatically think it's the white kids. Flats get set alight, council shutters get ripped off empty houses (lots of'em round here, as some lucky sods have moved already), an asian family has all the windows smashed regularly and live in fear, a bloke gets robbed by bunch of youths...well in my mind it's them white lads. It's my first thought. White lads. Not the lod mouth lads with baseball caps on -nope, the white lads. (it might not be them, I'm sure theres other people just as caspable of making trouble.)

I wonder why I mark'em like that? I think it's because predominantly it's asian guys who hang out outside the shop next door, so the easiest way to demark the difference is their skin colour.

I'm quite aware it's just these yobs I don't like -I don't dislike all white kids for this reason -all white kids with shaven heads and basebal caps? hmm, maybe -or at least as a first reaction, till rational me takes over and says "don't be daft, they look the same, they're not exactly the same."

So, I don't think I'm really racist -just sick of the white yobs that hang out round my house, really.

 

[neonlyte]

I'm 'People-ist'. There are an awful lot of people who irritate me for any number of reasons, I'm not interested in what colour they might be.

 

[Huckleman2000]

I'll take the bait.

Actually, I mostly agree with you.

This reminds me of when "Crash" won "Best Picture". I haven't seen it, but in reading about it I found that it deals with racism in a manner that many found "real", as in, "not contrived".

The plot, I read, includes an incident where an Asian woman rear-ends a car driven by Hispanics, and then goes off on a racial tirade about awful Hispanic drivers.

Living in Seattle, my first reaction was, more or less, "Where does an Asian woman get off complaining about someone else's driving??" And my second reaction was, "An Asian woman rear-ending someone? Like, she was driving faster than another car?" Clearly, whatever this movie has to say about racism, it cannot claim to not appearing contrived.

Or the time when I was in catechism class for First Communion, and the teachers told us that Jesus could say to a black person, "You have the blackest skin I've ever seen!", and the person wouldn't be offended because Jesus would have said it just as an observation, without malice.

My point is, stereotypes happen for a reason, they don't just appear from nowhere. Claiming that one never stereotypes people is tantamount to saying that one's powers of observation and interpretation are remarkably weak.

The point of your anecdote is, I think, that stereotypes are worst when they get in the way of a one-to-one relationship, such as the one you had with the ticket-taker who took it upon themself to deal with your situation directly, rather than falling back on "policy" - which is, after all, just another way of stereotyping customers.

 

[siren319]

I wish there was a word for just being prejudice against stupid

I heard a comic say, Why hate someone for the color of their skin when there are so many other good reasons to hate them. This is so true.

 

[3113]

Or the time when I was in catechism class for First Communion, and the teachers told us that Jesus could say to a black person, "You have the blackest skin I've ever seen!", and the person wouldn't be offended because Jesus would have said it just as an observation, without malice.

What a rotten story. I sincerely doubt J.C. would say this being that he lived in Jerusalem which was an international town and, HELLO, Egypt was a direct line to Nubian and their very dark skins. He lived in Egypt as a child, yes? He'd have seen plenty of people of all shades of darkness.

A black person would hardly elicit a remark from him. A better story would have been if J.C. saw a white Nordic person and remarked, "You have the whitest skin and what yellow hair!"

Far more accurate. Then again, if we accept that he was the son of God, then he really should only see the heart and soul of anyone and not remark on their skin because that's not what he would notice or see being who he was. Or am I missing the point?

 

[English Lady]

I'll take the bait.

Actually, I mostly agree with you.

This reminds me of when "Crash" won "Best Picture". I haven't seen it, but in reading about it I found that it deals with racism in a manner that many found "real", as in, "not contrived".

The plot, I read, includes an incident where an Asian woman rear-ends a car driven by Hispanics, and then goes off on a racial tirade about awful Hispanic drivers.

Living in Seattle, my first reaction was, more or less, "Where does an Asian woman get off complaining about someone else's driving??" And my second reaction was, "An Asian woman rear-ending someone? Like, she was driving faster than another car?" Clearly, whatever this movie has to say about racism, it cannot claim to not appearing contrived.

Or the time when I was in catechism class for First Communion, and the teachers told us that Jesus could say to a black person, "You have the blackest skin I've ever seen!", and the person wouldn't be offended because Jesus would have said it just as an observation, without malice.

My point is, stereotypes happen for a reason, they don't just appear from nowhere. Claiming that one never stereotypes people is tantamount to saying that one's powers of observation and interpretation are remarkably weak.

The point of your anecdote is, I think, that stereotypes are worst when they get in the way of a one-to-one relationship, such as the one you had with the ticket-taker who took it upon themself to deal with your situation directly, rather than falling back on "policy" - which is, after all, just another way of stereotyping customers.

Which leads to the question -why do we stereotype? Why do we all bulk people together in groups of "the same?" and why is this helpful to us.

I guess it's to make sense of the world, to break it into chunks we can handle, I guess it's some kind of brain process that helps us to judge a person/situation in a split second -an animalistic kind of flight or fight thing?

And why do we so often stereotype by skin colour -because it's so obvious, maybe? Everyone has a skin colour...

It's fascinating really and I'd love to know more.

 

[Huckleman2000]

What a rotten story. I sincerely doubt J.C. would say this being that he lived in Jerusalem which was an international town and, HELLO, Egypt was a direct line to Nubian and their very dark skins. He lived in Egypt as a child, yes? He'd have seen plenty of people of all shades of darkness.

A black person would hardly elicit a remark from him. A better story would have been if J.C. saw a white Nordic person and remarked, "You have the whitest skin and what yellow hair!"

Far more accurate. Then again, if we accept that he was the son of God, then he really should only see the heart and soul of anyone and not remark on their skin because that's not what he would notice or see being who he was. Or am I missing the point?

Isn't that incredible? It was the 60s, but still... It was a town where the only black people were actually exchange students from Africa attending the university. I suppose the teachers meant well in trying to show that Jesus wouldn't have seen their skin coloration as a reason to treat them differently, but as you point out, it says more about the teachers and the town than it says about either Jesus or black people.

Similarly, here in Seattle people like to think of themselves as very tolerant. The fact is, though, that there isn't a large black population, there are few Jews... In terms of "minorities", the largest groups are Asian, from India and the first-world Orient (I mean Japan, Korea, China, and Taiwan). And the Asians seem as rascist as anyone, even (especially?) about each other!

I guess my point is that we all have the tendency to stereotype, whether on the basis of age, sex, race, nationality or ethnicity. To the extent that people in categorical groups behave alike, it's natural to assign general attitudes based on experience.

the negative aspect is when we carry these generalities into interpersonal relationships. Or, for that matter, when groups behave in public in ways that are insensitive to others around them who don't belong to the group. I can understand that Asian families statistically (may) have higher expectations for their children's grades, but that doesn't mean that my (fictional) co-worker Jen Chung is a product of her racial statistical profile, and it doesn't make any sense for me to treat her as anything but an individual.

 

[NoJo]

I'm 'People-ist'. There are an awful lot of people who irritate me for any number of reasons, I'm not interested in what colour they might be.

Me too, but I can't help noticing that most of them are white.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Which leads to the question -why do we stereotype? Why do we all bulk people together in groups of "the same?" and why is this helpful to us.

I guess it's to make sense of the world, to break it into chunks we can handle, I guess it's some kind of brain process that helps us to judge a person/situation in a split second -an animalistic kind of flight or fight thing?

And why do we so often stereotype by skin colour -because it's so obvious, maybe? Everyone has a skin colour...

It's fascinating really and I'd love to know more.

I think you've answered the question yourself.
And it is fascinating - as a researcher, a good portion of my job is trying to figure out how to break people into chunks we can understand. Unfortunately, as you say, too often it's easy to fall back on race as a defining characteristic, just because people have an immediate visual image they can latch onto. Talking about a group like "people who like to travel" is far more abstract, since there's no mental image that most people have formed from experience. Indeed, the group might be more clearly defined than other, more easilyidentifiable groups - like your neighborhood gang of white tough boys. Their "groupness" (or stereotype) is defined more by a common attitude and set of behaviors than it is by their ethnicity. Recognizing those characteristics isn't necessarily a negative thing - as you say, it's making sense of your world, or at least your neighborhood.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

It seems interesting that we find it surprising for other races to be racist about groupings especially in what we see as "in-group" racism. Asian is an arbitrary grouping as much as "white" or "black" is. Japanese and Chinese have both long feud and recent tensions dividing them. Different cultures make Japanese, Korean, Chinese look down on their Southeast asian cousins. A half-black, half-chinese friend was looked down upon by every group. Among whites for being black, among blacks for not being black enough, among Chinese for being a half-breed, and among Japanese for being chinese.

In general it's always interesting that "white" ever managed to coalesce at all. I generally disdain the grouping as I feel no comraderie or shared heritage with the "group" which tortured my grandfather and grandmother. Nor do I feel inclined to pursue their war against "other colors". Beyond the mere idiocy of ever judging anyone by their appearance without giving them the opportunity to display their personality and reveal far better reasons to hate them, there is no knowledge or acknowledgment of the cultures being added. American racism in its most benign is leave whatever foreign baggage you got at the door and we'll let you mingle with people of the same skin color. You "Asians" "Hispanics" "Blacks" "Whites" mingle and do not reveal how you really identify. What of the old ways do you honour, what don't you, what are you interested in, who are you as a person? Leave all that at the door too.


And that's the benign side. The part that comes so naturally to even the PC minded who clarify and touchy-feely in genuine effort to not marginalize or offend. No wonder the non-benign side usually involves people dying.

 

[Guest]

I'm 'People-ist'. There are an awful lot of people who irritate me for any number of reasons, I'm not interested in what colour they might be.

Yup, same here. I found myself agreeing with you whole-heartedly.


Then I read this reply:

Me too, but I can't help noticing that most of them are white.

And found myself agreeing double-whole-heartedly.



Loud-mouth-inconsiderate-ass-hole-wanker-young-white-male "hoodies" being the most noticable of all.

 

[kendo1]

Chavs.

 

[3113]

Well, what racism translates to is a culture war where the tribes are identified by common physical traits. Humans, being human and still primitive, rely on such physical markings to quickly identify and run from danger. So, we see a certain large shape in the jungle with cat ears and stripes and and we flee from what we're sure is a tiger--even though it might be a person wearing a tiger skin.

It's very difficult to turn this off. But Joe's experience does not really demonstrate racism toward blacks. It's a dislike of a certain culture, dominated by blacks, where people share a theatrical experience by being vocal. If a white kid was adopted and raised by a black family that did this, he'd do it, too.

Much as true racists would like to convince us otherwise, the traits we don't like in "Asians," "Hispanics," etc. (if they exist all and are not propaganda), are cultural. Learned. Which means that they can't be passed down through the DNA along with the physical traits that make up "race." And so, anyone raised in that culture, of any race, might well act in the same manner. Or not, people being individuals as well as tribal.

 

[FallingToFly]

And the Asians seem as rascist as anyone, even (especially?) about each other!

Gah, had to jump on that.

The husband was raised, for a great deal of his formative years, by his kung fu teacher and his family. He went home to sleep, was back there for breakfast for, oh, ten years? As a result, there are certain aspects that, even though he's white, he has a very Chinese viewpoint on things.

He tolerates every racial variation we've ever run across in life, but he will actually cross the street with our children if a Philipino approaches. (I'm not going into the reasons, he has a bone deep hatred for the entire country and its people that I've had to listen to for years.) He can tell within moments of meeting someone of Asian descent where they're from, and usually, the province/region their descended from. It's creepy.

The way he explained it was pretty simple though- he said that it's something every Asian (or at least Chinese) child learns, how to read facial structure, body language, spoken nuances, to identify those of "their" background. Much of Chinese culture has a great deal to do with tradition and ritual, and these rituals and traditions have slight variations throughout the country. Obviously, those who practice the same rites and beliefs tend to get cliquish.

Or so he says. I starting noticing that the same thing happened in high school (when we had just started dating) between various Asian students. The Japanese students hung together, the Chinese students split into Cantonese descent and Mandarin. It interesting, because once it was pointed out, I started seeing the subtle variations as well. In skin, in hair, in eyes, in the way they moved or spoke or did things.

Made for an interesting end of semester thesis in humanities.

I will say, also, that I like people, for the most part, regardless of color or creed. However, I also think that there are cultural differences between races that should always be taken in consideration. t has nothing to do with color, and everything to do with background, where you were raised, how, by whom, and what you were raised to believe in. I've seen a lot of my friends have their hearts broken in trying to have a relationship with someone whose cultural background that didn't understand, and didn't bother to take into consideration when falling into that first flush of lust and love. You always have to look at someone's cultural background and societal background if you plan on making a lasting relationship. Loving someone isn't enough if you discover that you don't like them very much as a person.

 

[duddle146]

You Hit the Subject Dead On, Fly

Gah, had to jump on that.

The husband was raised, for a great deal of his formative years, by his kung fu teacher and his family. He went home to sleep, was back there for breakfast for, oh, ten years? As a result, there are certain aspects that, even though he's white, he has a very Chinese viewpoint on things.

He tolerates every racial variation we've ever run across in life, but he will actually cross the street with our children if a Philipino approaches. (I'm not going into the reasons, he has a bone deep hatred for the entire country and its people that I've had to listen to for years.) He can tell within moments of meeting someone of Asian descent where they're from, and usually, the province/region their descended from. It's creepy.

The way he explained it was pretty simple though- he said that it's something every Asian (or at least Chinese) child learns, how to read facial structure, body language, spoken nuances, to identify those of "their" background. Much of Chinese culture has a great deal to do with tradition and ritual, and these rituals and traditions have slight variations throughout the country. Obviously, those who practice the same rites and beliefs tend to get cliquish.

Or so he says. I starting noticing that the same thing happened in high school (when we had just started dating) between various Asian students. The Japanese students hung together, the Chinese students split into Cantonese descent and Mandarin. It interesting, because once it was pointed out, I started seeing the subtle variations as well. In skin, in hair, in eyes, in the way they moved or spoke or did things.

Made for an interesting end of semester thesis in humanities.

I will say, also, that I like people, for the most part, regardless of color or creed. However, I also think that there are cultural differences between races that should always be taken in consideration. t has nothing to do with color, and everything to do with background, where you were raised, how, by whom, and what you were raised to believe in. I've seen a lot of my friends have their hearts broken in trying to have a relationship with someone whose cultural background that didn't understand, and didn't bother to take into consideration when falling into that first flush of lust and love. You always have to look at someone's cultural background and societal background if you plan on making a lasting relationship. Loving someone isn't enough if you discover that you don't like them very much as a person.

Having worked around Chinese, Phillipeno, Japanese, and other Asian people over time I have discovered much of what you have just written is true. In fact, I found the different races much more intensely segregated from one another; so much so, it interfered with getting the work done at the office. They used their different languages like a weapon. At times sounding like the Tower of Babel. Yet, I found myself liking them as people. Being white I found them interesting, even at times fascinating. Go figure. I guess there's something to like in all of us. *wistful smile*

 

[NoJo]

People tend to feel happier among other people with similar physical attributes. Which is why I tend to hang around with guys with 8" dicks.

 

[duddle146]

Yeah!

People tend to feel happier among other people with similar physical attributes. Which is why I tend to hang around with guys with 8" dicks.

Wake up Joe, you're having a bad dream; sorry, make that a *good dream.*

 

[Guest]

People tend to feel happier among other people with similar physical attributes. Which is why I tend to hang around with guys with 8" dicks.

Seems a waste, unless you're gay. Otherwise, it would be better to hangout with women who seek an 8" dick.

Or is it an opposite attracts sort of thing?

 

[NoJo]

Seems a waste, unless you're gay. Otherwise, it would be better to hangout with women who seek an 8" dick.

Or is it an opposite attracts sort of thing?

Opposites do attract, in my experience, but they tend to cause an almighty explosion when they get married

 

[Guest]

Opposites do attract, in my experience, but they tend to cause an almighty explosion when they get married

Yeah, matter and Anti-Matter. We learned that from Star Trek in 1966.

 

[BlackShanglan]

My point is, stereotypes happen for a reason, they don't just appear from nowhere. Claiming that one never stereotypes people is tantamount to saying that one's powers of observation and interpretation are remarkably weak.

Yes, stereotypes happen for a reason. But whose reason? Are they all based on empirical observation of common cultural traits, or are some posssibly based on wishful thinking on the part of the perceiver? If, after all, people of one race or religion or cultural group are inherently lazy, ignorant, unintelligent, and genetically inferior, that's awfully helpful if one happens to want their land, their money, or their lives. The history of Westen colonization is the history of conveniently deciding that large numbers of people, when observed carefully, all happen to be inherently inferior to white Europeans, and there certainly seems no more common comforting belief now than that certain cultures or groups will never be as reasonable, educated, intelligent, well-mannered, or pleasant as others. It's curious, though, how that process of empirical observation works; no one seems able to agree on just which groups are which.

Shanglan

 

[Liar]

"Asian"? Dumb name for a racial category. Half of Russia is in Asia. So is Iraq.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Long story short, after fifteen minutes of the loud black peopl behind me whooping and narrating the events on screen

Raising guilty white hand...

I'm the world's worse movie-goer... I scream, I cry, I yell at the people on the screen (yes, the stereotypical "Don't go in there!!!!! Are you stupid!?" at a horror movie)

I've learned to wait and rent the DVD... I just can't stop myself, I get so carried away in the story...

 

[zeb1094]

"Asian"? Dumb name for a racial category. Half of Russia is in Asia. So is Iraq.

All of Russia is in Asia last time I looked.