Pentium Vs Celeron

[Young Knave]

Which is better? I KNOW a celeron is a few hundred bucks cheaper. I'm wondering about the performance of the latest celeron processor compared to the p4?

Pentium 4 is quite a bit faster. I have a Celeron and am quite happy with it. Only paid 500 dollars for my computer and monitor. It's fast enough to play Civilization 3 and Word and internet stuff, and that's all I need.

 

[Draco]

Thought this was a technical forum on the difference between a Celery and a P(piss-weak)4...
not another boring bleat about MS and Bill Gates...
jeez..is it jealousy??

main diffs is L2 cache structure..and the L1 cache runs at the cpu speed in the celeron and the P4's run at system bus speed..so in all they run about the same.

A good Athlon likes to have P4's for breakfast..the new XP1800+
runs quicker than a 1.7 P4...and its only 1553mhz.

The Celeron was created to put Intel in the bottom-end sector where AMD had a strangle hold on volume sales.
Intel couldn't lower the cost of the P2 to match the K6-II's..so hence the Celery was born.

 

[6ft6SoCalM]

Get a P4 if you can afford it, caches are twice as large , can handle up to 1200 mz memory chips fastest memory celeron can handle is 133mz. they have better heat displacement, and the list gos on

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Thought this was a technical forum on the difference between a Celery and a P(piss-weak)4...
not another boring bleat about MS and Bill Gates...
jeez..is it jealousy??

Hardly - remember, I know these people, I have worked with them, and spent some time on the MS campus. I have seen what they do to other companies that have to depend on them. I went through the whole mess when MS created OS/2, then when someone pointed out that they were sharing control of the OS with IBM, they did a complete turnabout and acted like OS/2 was all an evil plot by IBM, and that they then had something much better. Back then NT was as vaporous as .NET is now, but come to find out, much of NT was built on OS/2 work.

A lot of people got burnt on OS/2 because MS for years told us that this was the OS for the future, etc. - then they pulled the rug out from everybody that was working on it and tried to blame it all on IBM. These are the kind of tactics you can expect from them. They don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves, and they are very much like a cult. We call them Microsofties around here.

I have worked for and with these people in one capacity or another (no - I never worked directly for MS, but I have worked with/for people that are MS employees/millionaires, etc., and worked with MS in various capacities). I know how they think - many still think that BASIC is the worlds best language, and that Bill Gates/MS can do no wrong.

I will give them their due; they do create some good products, they do have a lot tech expertise, and they do have some good ideas coming out of Redmond - but their take no prisoners attitude sucks. This is their attitude; "MS what is best in life?" MS: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women."

The reason they will eventually fail is because they do indeed believe their own bullshit. They do indeed believe VB is the best language for devo work. They do believe their OS's are best even though they can't begin to compare to Linux for robustness (just try leaving NT running for any period of time - or ask any developer who has to reinstall NT six months to a year).

Jealous? No - I wouldn't work for MS on a bet, and even though I could get a job there tomorrow, I will never submit my resume to them. Hate them? No - I pity them; I wouldn't want to live like they do, I prefer to have a life outside of work, and not to be so paranoid.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I love that quote in there of yours... The "If it isn't MS it isn't shit"

Did I really say that? It surprised me to see it quoted - I don't know what I was thinking! Although it is somewhat true they do recognize that there is good tech out there besides them, but they like to gobble it up in one way or another - if it has any relevance to them at all.

They create an OS with set rules for programs, then their suite of products routinely break those rules (Thus causeing instability)

That used to be true, but it is not so much anymore. They were running into problems with buggy programs. It is kind of ironic that with all the talk of desiring a "Wall" between their OS group and their apps groups, that they didn't actually talk that much. Sure the apps people would know things ahead of time of anybody else, but the OS people got sick and tired of them breaking rules and using undocumented features/hooks that would break later when they changed the OS. They have gotten a lot better about that in the past years just because it got out of control and it was bad engineering practice.

STG, I hope you're right about Java... but... I'm not sure. Your average user isn't about to buy an OS, bits on a disc and is going to go through geek forums to hear what they should download to expland on what they've bought. And then do that everytime they reinstall.

Agreed, but the average user will probably never know they are installing a JVM when they install a product - and it really only needs to be installed once. Eventually, since Java doesn't really care what the platform is, people will be buying software developed in Java, that will run on anything, MacOS, Wintel, Linux, whatever, and the underlying platform will become less important.

Not many companies are using Java to develop desktop apps to sell (I worked for one of the few), but a hell of a lot of them are using Java for enterprise apps they use in house. They are also using Java where it currently has a big advantage over other devo systems; where the app is distributed, and where there has to be cross platform compatibility.

It is very freeing to know you don't really have to worry about the underlying OS or hardware when writing an app. It is also a lot faster and cheaper - the porting is minimal. The last project I worked on had the product released on both platforms, MacOS and NT, in five different languages, simultaneously. No waiting for one platform or language to be ported - all of it at the same time. We had never been able to do that before and it was quite an accomplishment and it was the most satisfying and fun project of my career.

Between the geeks seeing that they should develop in Java, and the customers seeing all the apps coming that say "as long as your platform supports a Java VM, our app can run on it", Java will be the major devo language of the future - as long as MS doesn't buyout Sun, which I seriously doubt will happen. Even if it did, Java would have a good chance of living beyond that as an Open Source project. The momentum is just too big now. Go take a look at IBM - they are a huge Java supporter.

 

[Guru]

 

[Marxist]

STG and SD,

Great geek stuff. I really appreciate hearing about this kind of stuff from folks that don't work for a computer magazine and don't have a financial axe to grind.

Keep up the good work. Thanx.

 

[Spinaroonie]

STG- You're secretly Larry Ellison, aren't you?

 

[Spinaroonie]

STG and SD,

Great geek stuff. I really appreciate hearing about this kind of stuff from folks that don't work for a computer magazine and don't have a financial axe to grind.

Keep up the good work. Thanx.

I've got more Geek stuff all over the board. With MS I just don't keep quiet

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

STG- You're secretly Larry Ellison, aren't you?

While I wish I had his money, I do not agree with his politics (at least not with regard to his recent stance on ID cards), or his lying about Larrygate, and while I am not as knowledgable as he is about a lot of tech trends, etc. - even a lowly programmer like me can see the LE's views on "Network Computers" as thin clients/amost dumb terminals/network appliances is totally the wrong way to go.

Anyone who has ever had to depend on a network, or on accessing the internet to get any work done, knows that it is a lot better to have as much computing power and apps as possible independent of a network. I want distributed computing power, not centralized - and my view of that is to have the power on the desktop, not the network.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I have a still-shrink-wrapped, never-opened copy of OS/2. Is it old enough to be worth something yet?

No - maybe in a hundred years, but right now you can't give it away.

 

[Spinaroonie]

While I wish I had his money, I do not agree with his politics (at least not with regard to his recent stance on ID cards), or his lying about Larrygate, and while I am not as knowledgable as he is about a lot of tech trends, etc. - even a lowly programmer like me can see the LE's views on "Network Computers" as thin clients/amost dumb terminals/network appliances is totally the wrong way to go.

Anyone who has ever had to depend on a network, or on accessing the internet to get any work done, knows that it is a lot better to have as much computing power and apps as possible independent of a network. I want distributed computing power, not centralized - and my view of that is to have the power on the desktop, not the network.

Heh heh. I went to the 1st Young Technology Leaders Summit in Austin, Texas and heard Gina Davis (ABC's Then Tech news correspondant, who'd also write a know nothing computer Q&A column). She said that in 18 months the Internet Appliance would outsell PCs.

They were cool little things, smaller than laptops, and could use a browser and email. No telnet, hotwire, etc. just something you'd give your grandmother to use.

It's been two years and I'm still waiting.

The moral? I wouldn't worry about the network having too much focus. People want to be a part of the network (Weather LAN, in-haus, intranet, internet, soviet spy network) but they want to detach. App developers have been trying to integrate the network into their products (Photoshop had a link to their site since version 4) but they don't get it. People want the network, and they don't want the network.

Larry's politcs don't match up mine, but there's no denying that he's a genius. He understands the power of the internet and the threat MS poses to it. His problem is two fold: 1.) Not everybody has the vantage point that he does and 2.) He has too much faith in the net. In Larry's world, there's no modem dropouts, the networks always up and the electricity is corsing through it's veins. There aren't slowdowns and server crashes.

Larry's world is great, and eventually... perhaps it'll be our world.

If you ever get the chance to see him on TV, check it out, he's a pretty interesting guy.

 

[Draco]

a question for SD412 & STG..

what has all this got to do with a Celeron or P4...next you'll be telling us the Big Bad Bill Gates built them too...

You may criticise him all you like...BUT...99% of US cut our teeth on
MS products such as Windows 95, 98, ...hell 2.0 & 3.1 &
DOS even. More than likely LIT wouldn't be here if it wasn't for MS...they did make the home PC popular...not just for back room geeks and programmers. And while we dont all agree with their ethics...they made the net an accessible place for the average Joe Blow. You made some valid points...but its also like saying you hate Henry Ford coz he only made black cars.

C'mon guys...loosen up and live a little.
I make my living coz Windows falls over so much...if they made stable OS's...all us techys would be broke and unable to pay our ISPs for the pleasure of connecting us thru to LIT every evening.

Who really gives a rats ass if he uses questionable business ethics and brainwashes college students to his way of "$ is everything-screw the competion till they fold".

Its the law of the jungle.

He made a product that made a lot of people well off, made himself very rich in the process. I admire the guy...because of his creaky old OS's ..my kids get a shot at college

Thanks Bill....keep turning them out...




OK..my spleen is vent..my work here is done..G'night all...

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

a question for SD412 & STG..

what has all this got to do with a Celeron or P4

You have never hear of thread drift? As if this is the only thread this has ever happened too? The diffs between Celerons and their big brothers have pretty much been exhausted unless you want to get into more detail. I don't care to; it bores me.

You made some valid points...but its also like saying you hate Henry Ford coz he only made black cars.

No it is like saying I dislike Henry Ford because he was a Nazi sympathizer and anti-semite.

Who really gives a rats ass if he uses questionable business ethics and brainwashes college students to his way of "$ is everything-screw the competion till they fold".

I care a little about the college students because it represents a brain drain. I care a lot about the biz practices because it screws over me and people I work with when we get the rug pulled out from underneath us. I know many people who lost their jobs because of the OS/2 fiasco, among others.

Its the law of the jungle.

I don't care about MS's attitude as much as I do its effects on real people.

 

[Spinaroonie]

a question for SD412 & STG..

what has all this got to do with a Celeron or P4...next you'll be telling us the Big Bad Bill Gates built them too...

It's simply human nature to Tangent. And I tangent more than most, so be warned.

Oh, and no, Bill had nothing to do with that. I'm not sure that Bill had much to do with putting BASIC onto the Altair 8088. I think Paul Allen was responsable for much more than we think.

 

[Tribbin]

I'm sorry to drag this out but...

I just had to give my two cents on the whole Bill Gates thing. I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm still in college, so I don't really know that much about what goes on in real businesses, I live in Florida, which is about as far away from Silicon valley as you can get, I haven't read or watched anything about the business practices of Microsoft, and i'm a wanna-be techno-geek.

That being said, I'd like to say that I think Microsoft is doing a pretty good job. They've done an increadible job of getting a computer on everydesk, which i think may be their mission statement or something, I can't remember, I read it in a Dilbert book. They've made an operating system that most people can use with little or no training, that is powerful enough to do almost anything people can throw at it, although it does crash occasionally. However, if you think about it, it has to be very tough to make a OS that techno-geeks can use along with my grandparents.

Microsoft is also a pretty generous compnay, i think. I'm on a big college campus, with a great engineering program, and Microsoft comes here almost once a month to talk to anyone that will show up, about what they are up to and new things that they are doing. They give away almost a thousand dollars plus every time they come here and that doesn't include all the pizza and soda that they give anyone that just shows up. Now i'm not so innocent to think that they are doing this just to be nice. I know that this is a recruiting trick, but i still think it's nice.

Last, even if Microsoft does use unethical business practices, Bill Gates is a pretty smart guy. You can't get where he is now without knowing at least a little more than the average person. I know that if i tried to run a multi-billion dollar corporation, i would fall flat on my face. So i have nothing but respect for what he has done, although I don't know anything about the whole OS/2 incident or any of the things that he might have done.

Again, sorry about this, but I just couldn't be silent with all the Bill Gates and Microsoft bashing that was going on.

 

[Draco]

No need to apologise Tribbin...you backed up my point...

They slag him off..while writing the thread in IE 5 or similar...

can you spell "Hypocrite"..?

Good on you for standing up and being counted..

 

[Spinaroonie]

No need to apologise Tribbin...you backed up my point...

They slag him off..while writing the thread in IE 5 or similar...

can you spell "Hypocrite"..?

Good on you for standing up and being counted..

Here you go...

Opera for the Mac OS
Version 5.0b4.411

Sorry. Don't use IE all that much.

 

[LordMagicMan]

Celeron IS a pentium!! I don't know what you're talking about Pentium vs Celeron... Intel is the company that makes them. A celeron chip differs from the P2/P3 chips from which it is based simply by the amount of cache it has (usually half). Cache is (to put it simply) expensive high speed memory built-in to the CPU wafer/chip.

The P4 is a hopeless as far as new technology goes. It has a 20 stage pipeline, significantly longer than a PIII/Celeron's 10 stages. That means each instruction to the CPU is broken down into 20 steps, rather than 10. Software has to be written to take advantage of it. In today's performance, it means a 1.2Ghz Celeron is equal in performance to a 1.6-1.7Ghz P4.

Um read what you write much? not to sound mean, but come back when you dont contradict yourself. As for Celeron being pentium why cant you plug a celeron into a pentium board? They have entirely differnt chip sets. Biggest difference is the level 1 cache each has. Celron has 128k and pentium has 256k right on the processor. as for the pipelines, some programs can take advantage of it without being reprogramed and the newer progams will be made to take advantage.