Pentium Vs Celeron

[Angel]

Which is better? I KNOW a celeron is a few hundred bucks cheaper. I'm wondering about the performance of the latest celeron processor compared to the p4?

 

[u2slow13]

think you might want to look at the upgradable aspect of the m/b before deciding. You should know by now it's already outdated by the time you get it home. Yup it sucks

 

[kitsuke]

Get yourself an AMD processor... 1.2 gig works like a dream, much better than P4 and costs much less too

*my two cents*

 

[Angel]

I don't care one way or another. I have a P4 in my computer.

My mom, though went to bingo tonight and won a computer and it happens to have a Celeron. Other than my old, ancient hand me down computers, I've had all pentiums. I've never dealt with a Celeron before so I was curious.

But hey, she got a computer for a 1 dollar raffle ticket at bingo. Can't really bitch about processor quality on a one dollar HP Pavilion.

 

[kitsuke]

Ah I see. Celeron is basically a "dumbed down" version of the regular Pentium chips. Works just fine for most stuff, but the higher end things can give it trouble. Much less expensive though. The P4 chip is better.... usually.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Just don't fall in the trap.

The greatest myth in all computing is that Mhz and Ghz = performance. It simply isn't true. Mhz is simply how fast electricity is pushed through the processor. It help, but it is a far cry from fairly determining speed. Many things give into it, number of stages, and a bitchin' branch predicator helps too.

a 500 Mhz G4 can outrun a 1.1 Ghz Pentium. But most people look to the numbers. How illy informed they are.

 

[u2slow13]

well good for mom

 

[Emeraldtryst]

One thing about a Celeron is that you can overclock it. I wouldn't try it unless you've got a really good cooling system, but you could easily crank that thing up to about twice it's normal speed. But make certain that she stays cool, or you'll end up investing in a new motherboard like I did.

 

[AskACumSlut]

Which is better? I KNOW a celeron is a few hundred bucks cheaper. I'm wondering about the performance of the latest celeron processor compared to the p4?

Isn't a Celeron simply an Intel P2 relabelled? So how can there be a "latest"? Did I miss something? I'm not a technoslut.

 

[MunchinMark]

Hey, its a free computer! Way to go Angel's mom.

Another factor in performance is RAM. Which is good because extra RAM is very cheap at the moment.

The P4 will go faster than the latest Celeron, all things being equal. But to be honest the difference isn't that big and can be easily overcome by tweaking.

I suddenly know a lot more about this since I accidently blew my motherboard trying to improve the performance of my old PII.

Now I have a kick ass system based on an AMD.

 

[Jaded1]

Well................

I am siting here typing this on a two year old Dell computer. It has a 600 celron chip, 512 meg of memory. a 20 gig hard drive, with a cd/dvd player, 2 1/2 inch floppy drive. 17 " monitor, with a 3d video card, surround sound speakers, 56k modem, a canon scanner, Quickcam web pro webcam, epson color printer, and Hewlett Packard laser printer.
I am using Microsoft Windows 2000 pro operating system (NT technology) and Microsoft XP office pro office systems It has yet to skip a beat and runs fast enough for me. So you decide

Jaded1, CT

Oh. I also play with my digital camera on this machine

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Look out! Stand aside! Let the techno nerd wade in here! Make way for the techno nerd!

Okay! *sits down on his throne and picks up his sceptre*

Let's have some facts shall we?

The early Celerons were something Intel invented to sell at a lower cost point. It is always good to have a range of products to give people something to select from. I suspect the Celeron is probably not that much cheaper than the PIII or P4 to make per chip, but it does allow Intel to set price points for all their processors.

As I remember, the PII version of the Celeron did not have an L2 internal cache. The cache is kind of like a buffer that keeps past instructions and data around that have gone through the CPU before. If the CPU finds the instructions/data in the cache first, then it doesn't have to go out to main memory, or *shudder* the hard disk, to get that data again. This speeds things up. How much depends on what is being done - but often the speed up is not that significant. There are other differences that affect the performance, but you get the idea.

Another reason there is a high end and low end chip in the Intel line is that I do not think the Celerons are compatible with multi-processor machines like mine. This is one reason why I didn't get an AMD chip instead of an Intel - they didn't support multiprocessing (more than one CPU) in the past and I think they still don't. I take that back - I just looked and I guess AMD does now support dual processors - but they seem to run at a much lower clock rate (about half) and I haven't compared the performance yet.

How does this all affect you? It really doesn't; your mother won the computer so she doesn't have to worry about price vs. performance. Her computer will perform just fine for everything she probably wants to do - and no, the Celeron will not balk at doing certain things, it has all the same instructions as other Pentium CPUs, it is just a little slower is all. As far as the applications are concerned it is a Pentium just like any other.

As for Motorola G4 vs. Pentium performance? The 500 mHz G4 will not outrun a 1 gHz Pentium, not even close and it costs about the same last time I looked. The benchmarks I have seen rate the 500 mHz G4 about 15 percent slower overall on real world application tests not indivdual CPU benchmarks like floating point, etc.

However, 15 percent is actually not that much difference - in my experience with computers (which is actually fairly extensive - I was working with Macs when some of you were still in diapers), humans really only notice a speed difference while using a computer, when the speed diffs are at least 50% or greater - unless the task is very long, then the small differences start to add up. If you are really pushing the limits of a machine, you will begin to notice diffs - but most of the time your computer is just idling along in first gear waiting for you.

It is kind of like some of us have Ferraris, and some of us have Toyota Tercels, but we are just putting along city streets - most of the time.

All else being the same mHz and gHz CPU clock rates do indicate speed differences, and when you are choosing between a Cleron running at 900 mHz, costing $65 (for the chip) and a PIII running 1.0 gHz costing three times as much, is the PIII three times better? No, it is barely 10-20% better. Chip costs are a small but significant part of the cost of the machine until you get up to the bleeding edges where the cost of the chip makes up almost 50% of the cost of the machine.

So, don't get the bleeding edge unless you can afford to throw away money. A step or two behind is just fine - looking for the best price performance ratio, with a performance rating you are willing to live with for as long as you are going to keep the computer. I think that point for most people is right around the 1.2gHz to 1.4gHz machines right now.

*steps down from his throne and lays aside his sceptre*

The royal court is now adjourned.

 

[Chuckus]

yea, What STG said and then some.

The major difference is on the gaming side and sometimes in the Graphics side..........other than that, not a big difference.

Celeron is cheaper but P4 is a bit quicker and a bit faster, but that is of course comparing apples to apples. AMD is not bad, but I have also heard some horror stories about them.

Congrats to your mom Angel. Free works for me. If it is free, then it is for me.

 

[MidnightAngel]

Don't know much techno about the differences, but I have worked on system with all of these.

My home system has an AMD Athlon. I am well satisfied with it.

My work system has a P3. I prefer the AMD.

The Celeron? If it's free, it's certainly worth the money. We have an HP with a Celeron at the office, and it makes a handy paperweight.

 

[Onyx]

Celeron IS a pentium!! I don't know what you're talking about Pentium vs Celeron... Intel is the company that makes them. A celeron chip differs from the P2/P3 chips from which it is based simply by the amount of cache it has (usually half). Cache is (to put it simply) expensive high speed memory built-in to the CPU wafer/chip.

The P4 is a hopeless as far as new technology goes. It has a 20 stage pipeline, significantly longer than a PIII/Celeron's 10 stages. That means each instruction to the CPU is broken down into 20 steps, rather than 10. Software has to be written to take advantage of it. In today's performance, it means a 1.2Ghz Celeron is equal in performance to a 1.6-1.7Ghz P4.

 

[Thumper]

How much for the paperweight?

I need a spare around here.

 

[Angel]

Celeron IS a pentium!!

Then you say..

A celeron chip differs from the P2/P3 chips ...etc...

Uh, make up your mind.



They aren't the same. They're both made by Intel. One is a Celeron, one is a Pentium.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Software has to be written to take advantage of it.

The rest of your post sounds correct, but I can assure you that if you mean application software that very little if any software is written to take advantage of such a low level feature of hardware. Maybe OS level drivers, but I doubt it - probably at best BIOS, but even that I would want to confirm.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

They aren't the same. They're both made by Intel. One is a Celeron, one is a Pentium.

They all are Pentiums; P2, PIII, P4 are generations of the Pentium, and Celeron is a version of the Pentium without certain features as Onyx outlined.

 

[Angel]

They all are Pentiums; P2, PIII, P4 are generations of the Pentium, and Celeron is a version of the Pentium without certain features as Onyx outlined.

I had been under the impression that they were two seperate but similar entities under the Intel name. My bad.

 

[Spinaroonie]

As I remember, the PII version of the Celeron did not have an L2 internal cache. The cache is kind of like a buffer that keeps past instructions and data around that have gone through the CPU before. If the CPU finds the instructions/data in the cache first, then it doesn't have to go out to main memory, or *shudder* the hard disk, to get that data again. This speeds things up. How much depends on what is being done - but often the speed up is not that significant. There are other differences that affect the performance, but you get the idea.

Remember INtel's much hoopla'd M2 technology? Just a bigger cache!


As for Motorola G4 vs. Pentium performance? The 500 mHz G4 will not outrun a 1 gHz Pentium, not even close and it costs about the same last time I looked. The benchmarks I have seen rate the 500 mHz G4 about 15 percent slower overall on real world application tests not indivdual CPU benchmarks like floating point, etc.

Where did you get your benchmarks from? I'm just curious. Still, according to your Benchmarks Mhz isn't everything. However, I've never heard of any P chips hitting a gigaflop yet.

However, 15 percent is actually not that much difference - in my experience with computers (which is actually fairly extensive - I was working with Macs when some of you were still in diapers), humans really only notice a speed difference while using a computer, when the speed diffs are at least 50% or greater - unless the task is very long, then the small differences start to add up. If you are really pushing the limits of a machine, you will begin to notice diffs - but most of the time your computer is just idling along in first gear waiting for you.

Being a yongun I went from diapers to Macs. In the above situation, that's when the productive ability comes through. The Creative ability of you and your machine. It's not how power the machine is, per se, it's how powerful the machine makes you.

So, don't get the bleeding edge unless you can afford to throw away money. A step or two behind is just fine - looking for the best price performance ratio, with a performance rating you are willing to live with for as long as you are going to keep the computer. I think that point for most people is right around the 1.2gHz to 1.4gHz machines right now.

The best computer buying advice I ever heard was from Guy Kawasaki. He said that the best idea to buy a machine was to buy the top of line machine and never pick up a computer magazine or read about computers again. That way you don't know how outdated you've become and then you can be happy with your machine for much longer. Naturally, I ignored it

*steps down from his throne and lays aside his sceptre*

The royal court is now adjourned.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Where did you get your benchmarks from? I'm just curious.

I did a search on benchmarks via google and found several, including one Mac guy comparing his G4 500, a G4 450 dual (? IIRC), to a 1 gHz Pentium.

Being a yongun I went from diapers to Macs. In the above situation, that's when the productive ability comes through. The Creative ability of you and your machine. It's not how power the machine is, per se, it's how powerful the machine makes you.

It is not the machine that makes the productivity, it is the software. My point is that many software apps are available on both platforms, Wintel and MacOS, and there is little difference in how they work on either machine. So, for the same performance/price ratio it doesn't matter that much - except that a hell of a lot more software is available for WIntel machines.

With more and more apps being written in Java, the underlying platform and OS will become less important - that is why MS hates Java.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I did a search on benchmarks via google and found several, including one Mac guy comparing his G4 500, a G4 450 dual (? IIRC), to a 1 gHz Pentium.

Hmmmm. I've been checking independant firms and can find Macs against Macs Pcs vs. PCs... Unfortunately the only link I had previously about this issue has expired...

It is not the machine that makes the productivity, it is the software. My point is that many software apps are available on both platforms, Wintel and MacOS, and there is little difference in how they work on either machine. So, for the same performance/price ratio it doesn't matter that much - except that a hell of a lot more software is available for WIntel machines.

With more and more apps being written in Java, the underlying platform and OS will become less important - that is why MS hates Java.

Beyond that, that's why MS hates the internet, it puts less emphasis on the OS, and it gives you an alterative to MS's pay tech support. They hate Java for a multitude of reasons, They didn't think of it, they don't control it... and they ca't kill it that well. It's been one of the few things they ca't kill all that well. Thank God. It's about time something innovative and groundbreaking and bridgebuilding survived MS's reign of terror.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Beyond that, that's why MS hates the internet, it puts less emphasis on the OS, and it gives you an alterative to MS's pay tech support. They hate Java for a multitude of reasons, They didn't think of it, they don't control it... and they ca't kill it that well. It's been one of the few things they ca't kill all that well. Thank God. It's about time something innovative and groundbreaking and bridgebuilding survived MS's reign of terror.

Lot's of stuff comes out of MS that is groundbreaking, but not bridgebuilding if it means it will in anyway comrpomise their hold on the MS market. Between Java and Linux, they are worried. While both are in their infancy, both, especially Java, can be very bad for Windoze. They want to control everything because then they win.

I know MS - they have been my neighbors for well over a decade, and I know a lot of people that work there. It is like a cult. It is not about money, it is not really about power - it is about winning and stamping out all competition. If it isn't MS then it isn't shit. The look on the face of those who work for and have been indoctrinated there when you tell a joke about MS or Bill Gates, is the same look you get when someone tells a politically incorrect joke; distinct discomfort and never any smiles. It is just too serious a matter for them to see any humor in.

One of the things MS does is hire people right out of school before they work anywhere else; the reason is that they can then indoctrinate them about the rest of the world without worrying about them knowing the truth. People who have worked somewhere else don't have that same glazed look in their eyes, and they eventually leave MS once they find out what it is like there.

It might take another couple of decades, but Java will break their hold on the OS market, especially as machines become more powerful and Java becomes more efficient. They are worried because they know there is very little they can do about it except try to pollute the language/development environment market with things like C Sharp and .NET

 

[Spinaroonie]

Lot's of stuff comes out of MS that is groundbreaking, but not bridgebuilding if it means it will in anyway comrpomise their hold on the MS market. Between Java and Linux, they are worried. While both are in their infancy, both, especially Java, can be very bad for Windoze. They want to control everything because then they win.

I know MS - they have been my neighbors for well over a decade, and I know a lot of people that work there. It is like a cult. It is not about money, it is not really about power - it is about winning and stamping out all competition. If it isn't MS then it isn't shit. The look on the face of those who work for and have been indoctrinated there when you tell a joke about MS or Bill Gates, is the same look you get when someone tells a politically incorrect joke; distinct discomfort and never any smiles. It is just too serious a matter for them to see any humor in.

One of the things MS does is hire people right out of school before they work anywhere else; the reason is that they can then indoctrinate them about the rest of the world without worrying about them knowing the truth. People who have worked somewhere else don't have that same glazed look in their eyes, and they eventually leave MS once they find out what it is like there.

It might take another couple of decades, but Java will break their hold on the OS market, especially as machines become more powerful and Java becomes more efficient. They are worried because they know there is very little they can do about it except try to pollute the language/development environment market with things like C Sharp and .NET

I love that quote in there of yours... The "If it isn't MS it isn't shit" I know many people who say the same thing... with different connotations, alebeit, but still... a common thread if you will.

You've pretty much confirmed what I've been thinking about the people. Power mongers. They create an OS with set rules for programs, then their suite of products routinely break those rules (Thus causeing instability)

Your info about them recruiting out of school is, just the thing I need for the perfect metaphor. A cult. (No wonder Janet Reno went after them! Oh, I'm bad, a Texan and a Reno supporter- I should be the last person to make that joke) With brainwashing. But won't they have a problem when the next wave of EE's, CE's, CS'ers come forth and they're even bigger geeks than the round before them? I mean today's geek reads slashdot and a multitude of blogs (Least I do since I'm out of school for the time being) and we read the reports of unjust practices, underhanded techniques, deception and generaly... Evil tactics. I mean, let's face it, today's Geek uses Windows primarily for games and browsing. Besides investors and UncleBill you can't find any hardcore MS supporters.

Have you ever heard a good thing about .Net, passport or hailstorm? It may be the places I hang out and personal politics, but I just read fear and criticism. From the time of the famous memo written by Bill "The oncoming Internet Title Wave" they have never such posed a threat. I mean, even IE gave us features (or Nipples as I called them in another thread ) to play with. .Net features encroachment.

Power corrupts, how long till we have to pay per pageview in IE? With the BB here that can stack up.

I wonder where the guys from BB&N are? I'd love to talk with them and see what they think about what's happened.

STG, I hope you're right about Java... but... I'm not sure. Your average user isn't about to buy an OS, bits on a disc and is going to go through geek forums to hear what they should download to expland on what they've bought. And then do that everytime they reinstall.

I'm tired of the vaporware this company has caused by drying up VC for start ups. Unfortunately investors are backing them to much.

...But... it's still fun to watch Balmer run around like a monkey