Penis Envy Effecting Your Performance?

[sincerely_helene]

I'm not refering to this in a literal sense, of course, but I believe that it is common for a writer/artist to suffer a degree of penis envy.

The thing is, with many other professions, I don't feel that competition is much of a factor. The Accountant will account, the Teacher will teach, and the President will... well, whatever it is that Presidents do. Creative minds are much different in that we have the tendency to just want to do better or at least match the talents of those who surround us. I suppose, most of us are attention sluts.

What I am wondering, though, is do you view this competition as a positive, or is it something that holds you back? When you spend hours and hours on a story, or painting, or drawing, then see the guy next to you who took exactly 30 minutes to complete the same task recieve more acclaim, do you essentially give up on yourself for a while? Or do you see it as a challenge to do better the next time?

 

[cantdog]

I have to pass on your penis envy paragraph, because I don't follow it, and I disagree with the second paragraph.

Not a very friendly start, I suppose. But friendly-meant, just the same.

I do have an answer to your last one because it just happened to me not long ago. I thought about it, as you had asked the question. I have to say it was like water off the back of a duck. Gone.

I think it must be my deep supply of sheer ego. And my lack of concern for dignity.

These are not generally seen as positive traits, but they certainly served me well in this instance!

cantdog

 

[sincerely_helene]

I have to pass on your penis envy paragraph, because I don't follow it, and I disagree with the second paragraph.

Not a very friendly start, I suppose. But friendly-meant, just the same.

I do have an answer to your last one because it just happened to me not long ago. I thought about it, as you had asked the question. I have to say it was like water off the back of a duck. Gone.

I think it must be my deep supply of sheer ego. And my lack of concern for dignity.

These are not generally seen as positive traits, but they certainly served me well in this instance!

cantdog

Apologies. I suppose the 'penis envy' comparision to inferiority complexes seemed more obvious in my own mind than it really was. I'll try to be more clear next time.

Thank you for your comments.

 

[Guest]

When you spend hours and hours on a story, or painting, or drawing, then see the guy next to you who took exactly 30 minutes to complete the same task recieve more acclaim, do you essentially give up on yourself for a while? Or do you see it as a challenge to do better the next time?

I suppose it's a little bit of both. I feel that every story I write was better than the last. My last one damn near ripped my own heart out writing it. I recieved PCs and private coments that made my heart soar.

Then I see stories that, in my opinion, were not quite as good. And I see that they have 10 times the views mine did and 3 times the votes and much higher scores. And it is incredibly discouraging.

So for a while I don't feel like writing. And admittedly I even get a little depressed.

And then I say, "Fuck it. Don't matter no how."

And then something inspires me and off I go to write a better story than the last one.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Running into genius is a terribly humbling and shocking experience. I ran into it once in music, where I played with a guy who was a genius on the saxophone: he could so anything, and it do it effortlessly and with such grace it just took your breath away.

Away from his horn, the guy was pretty much of a loser. Just had no social skills whatsoever.

I've been writing long enough now so that I think I have my own voice and do things my own way, so I don't feel like I'm competing much with anyone anymore. I'm still amazed when I run into some raw writing talent, or when I run into a figure of speech or metaphor I wish I had thought of, but I think I realize that that's just not me. That's not how I work or what I'm trying to do. It was wonderfully liberating for me to discover that everyone develops their own writing voice, and that the only one you're competing with is yourself.

There are mainstream authors who I've read dozens of times who can still knock me out with what they do, but still, that's just not me. And I'll bet while they were writing they were knocked out by other stuff they read as well, and wondered why their stuff wasn't as good.

So it doesn't bother me that I don't have perfect five scores, and I read the top-rated stories and don't really feel any envy. Like Dranoel, I wish my stuff was read more, but there's not much you can do about that except write more. After all, being popular isn't the same as being good, and sometimes it's the exact opposite of being good.

---dr.M.

 

[Guest]

I like what Mab. says. It's dopey to compare myself to anyone else cos I do believe I write only like me. I haven't read anyone here or anywhere that writes like me. Long long ago I used to read great authors and wonder why I should even try, but that doesn't get to me anymore, I just try to keep learning from them. The only person who discourages me at times is myself, the still to be battled 'inner critic'.

Perdita

 

[cantdog]

Sounds like healthy ego to me, Zoot.

When someone comes to me for a poster or something, I just decide if I'm capable of turning in a workmanlike job of it.

I know I'm no de Toulouse-Lautrec.

But I love the doing of it, even though nobody would want to pay me by the hour!

cantdog

 

[Bridget69]

I don't really write with the intention of competing against others who have no doubt been writing for a lot longer than I have, and who have probably submitted a lot more material. I also don't believe in comparison and one being better than the other because everyone has their different style and are all remarkable in their own respects.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Upon re-reading, I realise that in my haste to make it to the store before closing, I managed to unwittingly plant at least three stereotypes/generalizations in my original post.

I just wanted to thank all who have replied so far for not jumping the gun and calling me on this, because offending anyone's character or profession surely was not my intent.

This thread has already proven to me that the lack of self-confidence I feel as a writer is not as typical as I had assumed it was amoungst Litsters. I can admit when I'm wrong.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

To me it's not envy.

When I used to draw or paint...I put my soul into it, it is my passion and all my emotions are in it...if the guy next to me does it just for fame or recognition or to make a quick buck....yeah, I get pissed because they aren't creating...in my eyes at least.

I'm big on suffering for my art....it's my heart and soul I share and I won't comprimise it.

 

[cantdog]

I'm just happy when it works out the way I want it to. I put my feelings and my convictions into it, and I hate to have to alter it once the decisions are made.

But sometimes you have to kill your children, as King says (On Writing). Just because I feel I've been completely clever doesn't mean that it shouldn't go out when I do the final edit-- if it's extraneous and messes with the narrative flow.

Analogously with art, I imagine. Most of mine is poster art, T-shirt art. Which is to say, commercial art, hardly self-expression, except incidentally or when I sneak it in. Writing I do with a bit more heart.


And I didn't get offended in the least, Helene. I just think the spirit of competitiveness is optional, in a way. More to do with personality than with what kind of work one does. It comes out more in the things we're most in need of, or are proudest of (meaning we've invested a lot of ego in it). But any sort of worker, creative or not, can be feeling a competitive edge all the time, or not, if they aren't built that way.

cantdog

 

[yui]

Upon re-reading, I realise that in my haste to make it to the store before closing, I managed to unwittingly plant at least three stereotypes/generalizations in my original post.

I just wanted to thank all who have replied so far for not jumping the gun and calling me on this, because offending anyone's character or profession surely was not my intent.

This thread has already proven to me that the lack of self-confidence I feel as a writer is not as typical as I had assumed it was amoungst Litsters. I can admit when I'm wrong.

Thanks, everyone.

Hi Scarlet, umm, Pearl Girl, er…Girl with a Pearl...uh, Helene,

Freud would probably suggest all women suffer from penis envy.

I know exactly what you are talking about in your post. I suffer a lack of self-confidence when it comes to writing.

Hugely. Staggeringly hugely.

I compete with other writers. I just don't think they know we are competing…

I think Dr. M and the others are right – it's all about finding your voice, finding your confidence. Perhaps you and I just can't hear our voices because we don't trust their words yet, eh?

Luck to all,

Yui

 

[Liar]

There is no possible way for me to get penis envy from my creative activities. Because frankly, nobody could ever create a piece of Liar art better than me. In that aspect, noone is competing, and I'm not competing with anyone.

#L

 

[oggbashan]

I like what Mab. says. It's dopey to compare myself to anyone else cos I do believe I write only like me. I haven't read anyone here or anywhere that writes like me. Long long ago I used to read great authors and wonder why I should even try, but that doesn't get to me anymore, I just try to keep learning from them. The only person who discourages me at times is myself, the still to be battled 'inner critic'.

Perdita

Perdita has expressed how I feel as well. The inner critic is the harshest and is never satisfied. It is always telling me how far my story is from its intention. I can't get the imagined story I want to write into words that are a satisfactory expression of the idea.

Years ago I started a University course on English Literature. I had to give up because I found that the analysing, pulling apart and criticising destroyed the beauty of the work for me. Others can do it and enhance the author's work for me, for example the essay 'On the knocking at the door in Macbeth'. I couldn't.

I think that most stories posted by members of the AH are admirable and each are individual examples of creativity. Each is unique in its own way even if the author thinks the next one would be better. I don't know, and I don't have the skills to compare and criticise fairly. It feels to me like trying to compare Mozart with Gershwin, or Wagner with Cole Porter. I like all of them. I value all of them. If I were asked to choose only one I think my decision mechanism would get locked into an endless loop.

Some may envy my output. Few would envy my ratings. I like to try different approaches, to be deliberately weird, and to avoid obvious 'stroke' stories. Sometimes I envy those who can write good material to stroke to. It is a skill I don't have. The envy is short-lived. I can't play a musical instrument. I enjoy listening to those who can. I feel the same way about those who can consistently write high rated stories. I enjoy them.

I know I can't criticise others' work adequately. That is why I rarely leave PCs or feedback. I would rather refrain from commenting than make a comment that might hurt, no matter how diplomatically phrased. I know how delicate author's sensibilities are. 'Anonymous' hurts and even if we laugh at the comments our laughter is hollow.

I don't think that envy of other authors is helpful to your own creativity. It may help to want to emulate other people's success but that is best done by being yourself, not a pastiche of someone else.

Og

Edited for PS: Checked my source. Thomas De Quincey 'On the Knocking at the Gate in Macbeth' written in 1823.

 

[matriarch]

I write simply because I want to, because I have a need to share these words and images with others.

I write what has meaning for me, be it smut or tenderness; prose or poetry.

That others seem to enjoy my words and expressions of communion is the priceless bonus.

As is the sense of community I now enjoy with my fellow writers.

Mat

 

[cantdog]

Other people are necessary.

I suppose you can do it in a vacuum, people always have. Everyone writing a journal, for instance. All those trunk poems.

But you never tell a good tight story without erecting an audience in the mind, and telling them. And a doodle is enough for an audience of just yourself.

 

[Guest]

hrm... very interesting.
there are times when i wish i could get my feelings onto bits and bytes in a more swift fashion.
do i feel envious of others? honestly, sometimes i do...but only that they seem so fluid and i want that same talent.
i am proud of those who can write/paint/ express themselves so quickly.
mostly, i feel spurned on by the people around me. its not competition rather a sense of accomplishment when i have managed to complete a story.

however...this is not true in other arenas. i genuinely get miffed when im around other dulcimer players who can pick out a tune and play it perfectly in moments. i genuinely am green with envy when someone knits a sweater faster than i do... competition.. yep! still it spurns me on to "better" my speed... though i know deep down inside that i will never be 'faster' ... its still good for the spirit.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Great. Now I'm experiancing self-confidence envy, too.

I wish I could blame it on being new to writing, but the truth is that I am the same way with art. Even though I have been doing it for several years, others abilities often cause me to feel void of talent instead of inspiring me. It's sort like a "why bother if someone is always gonna be better" attitude.

 

[Guest]

Great. Now I'm experiancing self-confidence envy, too.

I wish I could blame it on being new to writing, but the truth is that I am the same way with art. Even though I have been doing it for several years, others abilities often cause me to feel void of talent instead of inspiring me. It's sort like a "why bother if someone is always gonna be better" attitude.

i so wish i could say ive never felt this way but....i really have.
gatta turn it around charlie brown.
no one can do what you do....cuz you are who you are and youput your own soul into everything you do.
you are a wonderful spirit, sexy woman. your sarcasm and wit abounds...never stop.

 

[sincerely_helene]

i so wish i could say ive never felt this way but....i really have.
gatta turn it around charlie brown.
no one can do what you do....cuz you are who you are and youput your own soul into everything you do.
you are a wonderful spirit, sexy woman. your sarcasm and wit abounds...never stop.

Sarcasm??? Moi????

(Thanks.)

 

[cantdog]

Great. Now I'm experiancing self-confidence envy, too.

I wish I could blame it on being new to writing, but the truth is that I am the same way with art. Even though I have been doing it for several years, others abilities often cause me to feel void of talent instead of inspiring me. It's sort like a "why bother if someone is always gonna be better" attitude.

We in this era, century the twenty-first, are uniquely placed to have that. The media revolution! We have to compare ourselves now to the best in the world, at every stage of our own struggle. It can be very, very daunting, and a lot of people deprecate themselves over it.

Well, sing! You ain't Callas, what of it?

Callas wasn't Callas either, until she'd worked at it like a fiend all that time. You do need a way to block out the daunting presence of all that greatness long enough to let you concentrate. You need them for goals, inspiration. But you can't let them get in the way while you're working. It's a mental trick. Working is a concentrated time with no referent but the work and the imagined audience in the mind. Callas can wait for another time.

It can overwhelm you, all these marvelous people from all over the world, so good! When you're not working, it's just fine to stand in awe of these people. That's appropriate! They rock! But get yourself a mental insulation, in order to let yourself work. Mental duck tape and plastic, like Homeland Security says.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Great. Now I'm experiancing self-confidence envy, too.

I wish I could blame it on being new to writing, but the truth is that I am the same way with art. Even though I have been doing it for several years, others abilities often cause me to feel void of talent instead of inspiring me. It's sort like a "why bother if someone is always gonna be better" attitude.

Well, let me come out on the penis-envy side as well, because I think it's a pretty well-established fact that writers tend to be more contentious and competitive than other artists, so you're not alone.

A few years ago I suddenly was seized by the desire to draw and paint. Nothing too ambitious, I just wanted to indulge a lifelong love in comic books and try to write my own, using my own goofy characters. It's tremendously satisfying to be able to draw out the pictures in your head rather than have to go through the tedious job of describing them with words

I really enjoyed the sensual feel of a black-velvet pencil on paper, and I loved having all these colors and media to play with and I could spend hours fooling around with them. But there was no denying the fact that as a graphic artists I just really sucked. I would go online and see things drawn by high school kids that just put my stuff to shame, and it drove me nuts. They had talents that I just didn't have, like a sense of composition, and the uncanny (to me) ability to make a character's arms the same length and make a hand actually look like a human hand.

So I know what it’s like to be blown away by someone’s native talent. It’s a terrible feeling: talent envy.

I’ve been writing since I was eleven years old, and, modesty aside, I know I have talent. I understand writing like I understand few things in life: it comes natural to me, I enjoy it, and even when I write something bad—and this is important--I almost always know why it’s bad before anyone else has to tell me. It used to discourage me to see all the bad things in my writing, but now I recognize that as probably the most important skill a writer can have, because if you can recognize the flaws in a piece, that means you can usually figure out what to do to fix them.

I still see things that I envy in other people's stuff. There are some people who have the ability to come up with terrific plots, which is a weakness of mine, and I envy them that. I envy a particularly striking or clever image too, and am quite apt to steal it. (We all do it.) I envy a of poetry too, because I can’t write poetry very well anymore. But I don’t think I’ve ever come up against a story that did what I try to do better than I can do it myself, so I can usually just appreciate a well-written piece without getting down on myself about it.

Anyone who takes their art seriously must be familiar with the Amadeus syndrome. (If you haven’t seen the movie, it involves a second-rate composer’s obsessive envy of Mozart’s genius.) At the risk of sounding like a self-help book, that kind of envy comes from a desire to be ‘good’ rather than being true to yourself. If you’re chasing after first place in the story categories, you’re just whoring yourself out and letting other people tell you how to write, and you’re bound to be disappointed or go ballistic when you don’t make it or get the inevitable one-bomb. Live by the scores, die by the scores.

I admit to getting miffed when I see what I consider an inferior story getting great scores or winning a contest, but it’s more like a resentment that my own story wasn’t better understood or appreciated. I don’t think I’ve ever wished that I had written that story. So I guess I envy things without really wishing that I was the one doing them.

One more thing to end this lecture: you don't become good by trying to be great. I gave up writing for a long time because I realized I wasn't great. It was only when I started writing porn that I gave myself permission to be just good enough (because really, who takes porn seriously?), and that was my own big breakthrough. Once I gave myself permission to be just good rather than great, things started getting a whole lot easier. You might want to try it.

---dr.M.

 

[doormouse]

well, I'm just penis envious/boob envious/ pussy envious/ body envious of the whole lot of ya lol

 

[cantdog]

I don't think I've been boob-envied before.

 

[doormouse]

I don't think I've been boob-envied before.

LOL

Well I've never been cock envied before