PenelopePedergasp stories and discussion Feb 2013

[anon606]

... I'd like to discuss it with you. Will you message me please?

 

[anon606]

Hmm ...

You did a spelling check.

This one ...

"And when was the last time she had felt her man's breath pulse through something so light and beautiful and sexy while he slowly pulled it down her legs, swept by her knees, and brushed past her ankles as he removed it through a pair of black high heeled stilettos?"

I'd write:

"And when was the last time she had felt her man's breath pulse through something so light and beautiful and sexy before he slowly pulled it down her legs, swept it by her knees, brushed past her ankles, and removed it over a pair of black high heeled stilettos?"

Which is what you'd write too, if you weren't enjoying the experience so much.

There's not a damn thing wrong with your writing, only your distraction. I'll leave the rest of that kind of error for you.

Let's see what else I find.

"Out of frustration an annoyance at something unknown built within her." This needed parenthetical commas, and there are numerous other places where they would have been helpful. I can admire your restraint but, please, a few more.

"A winding began within her" You intend 'winding' to make the verb 'to wind' physical, but 'winding' is already a noun and its common meaning interjects itself to occlude yours.

"like a steam engine with a broken release valve, its piston building the pressure to a dangerous bursting" while many can imagine this, it's a distracting stretch from common experience.

That's pretty much it. I could nit pick and redundantly re-correct already noted weaknesses, but that would be just rude until you've had a chance to consider them.

 

[PenelopePendergasp]

You did a spelling check.

Ignoring the basics is what's really rude. lol. So. Um. Yeah.

This one ...

"And when was the last time she had felt her man's breath pulse through something so light and beautiful and sexy while he slowly pulled it down her legs, swept by her knees, and brushed past her ankles as he removed it through a pair of black high heeled stilettos?"

I'd write:

"And when was the last time she had felt her man's breath pulse through something so light and beautiful and sexy before he slowly pulled it down her legs, swept it by her knees, brushed past her ankles, and removed it over a pair of black high heeled stilettos?"

Which is what you'd write too, if you weren't enjoying the experience so much.

There's not a damn thing wrong with your writing, only your distraction. I'll leave the rest of that kind of error for you.

Nice catch. Definitely an improvement. And I really agonized over that sentence. I did enjoy writing it, of course. But that style problem wasn't just the result of personal distraction. I performed several copyedit passes prior to and after posting. So the kind of problems you're pointing out is mostly due to writer's blindsight. You're a good editor.

Let's see what else I find.

"Out of frustration an annoyance at something unknown built within her." This needed parenthetical commas, and there are numerous other places where they would have been helpful. I can admire your restraint but, please, a few more.

"A winding began within her" You intend 'winding' to make the verb 'to wind' physical, but 'winding' is already a noun and its common meaning interjects itself to occlude yours.

"like a steam engine with a broken release valve, its piston building the pressure to a dangerous bursting" while many can imagine this, it's a distracting stretch from common experience.

That's pretty much it. I could nit pick and redundantly re-correct already noted weaknesses, but that would be just rude until you've had a chance to consider them.

Very useful. Particularly your critique of those similes, which are notoriously difficult to objectively judge as the writer. Keep it up as long as you're willing. I'll incorporate your suggestions on the master documents prior to submission here. I've also got an old one of mine in the submission queue. I'll post a link to it in this thread if the mods approve the story.

Question 1: Regarding "May I Buy That For You", one of my friends said that he found the end emotionally dissatisfying. He didn't offer suggestions for improvement though. Rereading it, I have to admit that he's right, but I have no idea why.

Question 2: Regarding "Squash. Tomorrow Morning, 7am?", did the embedded flashback to Natalie's childhood diminish its emotional effectiveness? I ask because that work got the least votes, yet I happen to like it. Was it due to the length or is there a style problem in there I can't see?

Question 3: Regarding "I Will Do My Homework!", that got the most votes yet it got the least copyediting of the bunch and is filled with small prose glitches. Why was it so effective in terms of reader response?

That you _very_ much. -P

 

[anon606]

Question 1:

Through the entire piece, she has been entirely in the moment, the rest of her life driven from consideration. That is a thing a man wants to do and a woman to be done.

Here at the end, her life returns.

Speaking as a man, I don't like her very much. She's ... unworthy.

As a wife, she is the cruelest sort of cheater. Her husband has given his all and his expectation that she reply in kind is dismissed as 'whiney'. She's made this act a forbidden one, an unthinkable violation. Her husband, who could cripple this frail bit with two good shots to the head but vowed never to harm her, he's failed because he neglected to rape her? He who has to bear the consequence of going too far for the rest of his life?

As the seduced, she is the again the cheapest sort. Her lover hasn't accomplished any great conquest. He hasn't been preferred over another at any great cost. This is just some easy slut that everyone else hasn't tapped yet.

I don't want it to be good for her, which makes all the forgoing pleasure shared between the protagonist and the reader, just ... wrong. This is the opposite of a Shakespearean Tragedy.

 

[anon606]

Question 2:

The flashback is just as full an experience for her as reality. This is not some memory intruding, we have returned there.

So, we've had half a ribeye, saving the tenderest part, then turned round for a lousy filet of fish, and then we're turned back to the steak.

Let's have the lousy fish first, then mid-meal, the just the scent of bad sole can help us to focus at the opportunity before us.

It's important that the memory be relived. You can't leave it out.

I hope this helps.

 

[anon606]

Question 3:

I'm confident that you'll agree that, when one isn't horny or aroused, sex just doesn't make much sense. One has to be in 'the zone' for it.

Now when one is in 'the zone', one isn't thinking too clearly, rather more important things occupy the mind.

Your writing draws the reader powerfully. We are in it, with your characters, and just as sex addled as they. Your prose would have to rip off a reeking wet fart that hangs around before we're distracted from the hotness, kind of like in real life.

A shift in message calls for a shift in metaphor.

I'd be remiss to not mention that the length of your stories plays a huge part in this. You are glorious in a sprint, but were you to write longer stories, this pace would exhaust the reader and s/he would watch you take a lap with growing disinterest and then annoyance.

 

[PenelopePendergasp]

@anon606:

RE #1: Your point is that readers don't want to identify with her as she is portrayed as having negative attributes that suppress reader identification with the character. I suppose that means the work is probably flawed at its core as far as attracting significant audience goes. Interesting. To be honest, I like morally ambiguous characters. But I also recognize that most readers prefer a protagonist as hero rather than ethically muddled.

RE #2: Untangling your metaphor, I think you're suggesting that structurally I should rework the flashback to an earlier point - perhaps as she's in bed frustrated over being unable to masturbate while her roommate is present - then quickly recapitulate this flashback with but a sentence or two at just the point before she's forced to act. Say, while she's on her knees still uncertain about whether she'll perform. The purpose of this is to sustain flow at a critical juncture of the story rather than yanking readers back and forth and thus diminishing the buildup of suspense that's already taken place. OK, I'll give it a try.

RE: #3: Pacing is a serious issue I need to better learn how to control. To be honest, I'm still a bit lost here. Do I cut detail to increase pacing? Reduce internal sensations and focus strictly on action? How then does that affect suspense? I don't know.

I know my prose is good enough. But the art of storytelling is still very much black magic to me. I feel stuck in the jungle still hacking my way through with a machete to that clearing which should lie ahead. I hope.

You've been tremendously helpful. I hope that I can return the favor for you at some point in the future.

 

[anon606]

RE #1: the question wasn't one of error, but why it was emotionally dissatisfying at it's current end. Success or failure, error or correct, depends entirely on your intent. If you're creating an anti-hero, or a tragic one, or an antagonist, you've just done a fantastic job. Spoiling an experience as you did is a technique I can't say I've ever seen before.

Wait. I have seen something like once. Zemeckis did a shorter and weaker version of it with Egon at the beginning of Ghostbusters II.

RE #2: Well, live in the metaphor a bit longer, one might have a bit of steak and a bite of fish, back and forth, if you can have both experiences resolve themselves at a fortunate point.
The Dispossessed by LeGuin would be a good example. It's also a good way to arrange a "MacGuffin", the surprise, story changing element.

RE #3: It's a lesson I'm struggling with myself. I have a short story that has turned into a novella by swelling at the end.

Originally, I used the present tense to achieve the power you do. Moving to the normal past tense demanded greater, or rather longer, exposition. I'm still experimenting with a device to deliver it.

I thought to be an editor, to sharpen my skills, only to discover a profound weakness with punctuation when manuscripts arrived from India and Israel requiring British forms.

The story became a series of exhausting scenes, that made it a journey by flashing light, demanding more exposition.

The need to have later critical elements rise in intensity above the background, that I had poured in between, demanded preparatory ones dotted in along the way: yet more exposition.

Now the arrangement has become confused, their dependencies conflicted, and suddenly their timing is will became impossible. I read that using an outline helps, but the short story didn't need one. It "is will became" in my real life. Oops.

So, I picked a calendar with a weekend where I wanted it. Now my story is set in either 2003 or 2014, I think.

Yeah. I hear you sister.

The reason I asked for a private message was to get your help by examination of your work, but a forum thread would work as well. Could I talk you into that?

 

[PenelopePendergasp]

Yeah. I didn't realize that comment was directed at me. You had a prior message to another comment and I thought it was part of that thread. I'll gladly help.

EDIT: how the hell do I turn on PMs here? Off to the FAQ I go....

EDIT #2: Easier than expected. PMs are now enabled.

 

[PenelopePendergasp]

Hello. Since there's nothing in the queue right now, I'd like to present my new story for critique. Just let me know when I have the green light for a thread. Thank you.

Hello TamLin01, I'm a newbie here but I'll attempt a copyedit and critique. I hope this is of some use to you.

Typos; minor style glitches; inconsistencies in action and setting:

"The cathedral was empty except for they two, and they were heading toward the courtyard and then to the street, chatting as they usually did after her weekly confession."

'they' / 'they' / 'they' repetition. Perhaps 'except for the two'?


"...fortunate to have our human failings<"

'>' instead of a '.'


"Portia watched him at work, wanting to tell him how proud she was of him and but afraid to break his concentration."

'and but afraid'


"Octavia curled up around her knees,..."

Next paragraph: "Octavia leapt off of Portia's lap and threw her arms around her father's knees."

While reading the first paragraph, I envisioned that 'curled up around her knees' meant that Octavia had sat by Portia's side on the floor, not that she had sat on Portia's lap. Upon reading the next paragraph, I found these two descriptions thus a jarring inconsistency that pulled me from the story in order to reread the prior paragraph for a proper visualization.


"They were seated in the dining hall, each of the four of them secured in their own chair back to back to back, each facing a different wall to ensure that they could not accidentally glimpse one another's faces while eating."

'back to back to back' - I think this repetition is intentional, but it doesn't seem necessary given the detailed description given afterward.


"Portia inhaled the scent of roast duck and realized she had no eaten all day."

'no' - should be 'not' I think.


"Two strong hands supported her in her swoon and, half-leading and half-carrying, took her to the railing."

'her in her' - This is a perfectly legitimate sentence. But isn't there a way to reduce the repetition? Perhaps something like: "Two strong hands caught her mid-swoon and, half-leading and half-carrying, took her to the railing." Uhhh. Maybe? Shrug.


"The cold, cold wine soothed her insides."

Not sure about 'cold, cold' either. I recognize it's intentional. Personal preference.


"The stranger was naked to the waist, and around his head was a crown of grapevines, and the vines trailed down his body."

Would it be possible to remove this repetition of 'vines' like so: '...around his head was a crown of grapevines, which trailed down his body." ???


"But the man, whoever he was, caught her up in his arms and pressed her to him, seeming to crush her like a grape in a press."

This simile evoked an image of her head being crushed, with brains spilling out, as if in a horror film. Lol. I'm a weird fuck. Still, I think the problem here is that a close embrace is not comparable to the destructive force of squishing a grape, and so the descriptive image clashed with the evocative image of the simile.


"The stranger wore only loose white trousers, which she pulled down now, sliding them over his calves and knees."

'now' is redundant.


"The statues and holy icons all had sheets and towels flung over their heads to symbolize the blindness of the gods' to humanity's actions today, and there were many half-empty casks of wine scattered about, and in the dark corners of the room there were many undressed people doing very many things that made Portia's insides quiver even as her head throbbed. "

Too many subordinate clauses connected by 'and'. It's really two fragments. Could you break this up into two sentences between 'actions today, and there were' like so?

'The statues and holy icons all had sheets and towels flung over their heads to symbolize the blindness of the gods' to humanity's actions today. There were many half-empty casks of wine scattered about, and in the dark corners of the room there were many undressed people doing very many things that made Portia's insides quiver even as her head throbbed.'


"Suddenly Portia was in the midst of a mass of people, people half-glimpsed in the dark, a mass of writhing naked bodies and twining limbs."

'mass of people, people half-glimpsed' - perhaps 'mass of people, bodies half-glimpsed' to break the repetition?


"She met lips on all sides too, too many to count or keep track of, too many mouths against her naked breasts or exposed neck or pale white shoulders."

'all sides too, too many' - I think the first 'too' is redundant. There are three of them in this sentence, the later two of which are necessary for flow. But the first could be removed without trouble.


"There were other intrusions on her too;"

This is the very next sentence. This makes for four repetitions of 'too'. I'd recommend changing it to 'as well' in order to break the repetitions.


"Her exploration was interrupted when one of the woman snaked her body across Portia's, kissing her and then direction Portia's open mouth to her small, soft breasts. "

1) 'woman' - I think should be 'women'.

2) 'then direction Portia's' - I'm not clear what you intend, so I'm not sure how to suggest as a fix. But the second clause of this sentence leaves out critical information.


"Spikes of heat radiating through her every time he penetrated."

'radiating through' - perhaps 'radiated through' ???


"To Portia's surprise, the sanctuary was full of lights and people; no, she realized, not people at all, merely a line of dressing dummies wearing priest's robes and sacred golden masks in the likeness of bulls, a convocation of masks without faces behind them."

'dressing dummies' - Just a word choice issue, but wouldn't 'mannequins' be better? shrug.


"She followed Father Marlowe and he followed the strange couple, and up to the altar they all went, but here Father Marlowe warned her back."

'...altar they all went, but here...' - 'all' is redundant. Also, I would break this into two sentences. '...altar they went. Here, Father Marlowe...'


"The stranger put one bronzed hand on the bull's flank and his wife touched it on the forehead, and then the huge animal turned and trotted away, heading toward the altar, and then the world went out of focus again and the beast was gone, vanished, and if not for the blood on the floor Portia would not have believed it had been there in the first place."

This could be broken into two sentences. Notice two repetitions of 'and then'. I would recommend breaking it at: '...away, heading toward the altar. The world went out of focus..."


"The stranger, she realized, was on top of her now, taking her across the altar, right there in front of the eyes of the gods, and his wife was leaning over, presenting her breasts to Portia's mouth, and Portia's skin burned, and her body became lighter and lighter, until it seemed she was not there at all."

Again, this sentence could be broken into two. '...eyes of the gods. His wife leaned over, presenting...'

------


Critique:

The story is well paced throughout until the very end. In the comments, one person criticized that the ending 'seemed forced.' I think the problem here is not Portia's removal of her mask, but that it happens too suddenly and too quickly. There is foreshadowing of this in Father Marlowe removing his mask in the prior scene. But for some reason, linking Marlowe's removal of his mask and Portia's recognition of his death - seemingly by her own hand - didn't connect to her removing her own mask as the final twist. I think the foreshadowing fails because these linkages are metaphorical and not repetitions of action or description, which a reader might find easier to recognize.

Another thing I noticed is that Portia is tagged as 'the witness' yet so too is she the one who wields the knife which kills Father Marlowe, incarnated as a bull. How can she be both a witness and a participant to the act? This seems an inconsistency which breaks the intended logic of the metaphor.

The prose is excellent throughout. Mistakes are either minor copyedit errors or mostly matters of style.

Thank you for a fine read and I hope my post here is of benefit toward improving your work.

Best,
-P

 

[Pure]

Note to Penelope, Tam Lin, Anon606, and others

Hi and welcome,

It's partly my fault, but this note is to welcome you all and let you know that this is a queue thread, a kind of reference list or agenda of stories to be critiqued. So here, you may post: 'Have a look at my story, "Fallen Angel". See its thread. It's my first. '

When someone has a story, they should post it in a thread of its own. Give your name, the title and a date, and what sort of criticism or feedback you want. You may post the story whole, as such, or, if it's at Lit already, post a link to it.

Best to all,
Pure,
mod.