Peace on earth. "A sea of dead and wounded" in Mosul
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amicus
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24 hours after the terror attack in Mosul, thousands of concerned family members are anxiously awaiting confirmation that their sons and daughters, husbands and wives, survived that horrendous attack.
It seems a cruel exercise during these last few days of the holiday season to post such a heartless attack on american servicemen and women.
When political ideology corrupts even your sense of shame, perhaps you should examine your principles.
amicus
It seems a cruel exercise during these last few days of the holiday season to post such a heartless attack on american servicemen and women.
When political ideology corrupts even your sense of shame, perhaps you should examine your principles.
amicus
shereads
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Yes, that was me attacking servicemen, amicus. You're very astute to have picked up on my deep-seated hatred of the young men and women who are being sacrificed in Iraq to make people like you feel manly in the aftermath of 9/11.
You are one twisted fuck.
Merry Christmas.
You are one twisted fuck.
Merry Christmas.
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shereads
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Here's December's harvest of young lives. The new total is 1300, but that doesn't include yesterday's disaster in Mosul.
Amicus, don't look. I know you prefer to honor the dead in your special right-wing way, which requires that you ignore them. Seeing their faces makes it hard to remember why you were willing to let them die.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm?nav=lb
Amicus, don't look. I know you prefer to honor the dead in your special right-wing way, which requires that you ignore them. Seeing their faces makes it hard to remember why you were willing to let them die.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm?nav=lb
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amicus
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I am not a 'twisted fuck' m'dear, and you know it.
Hawaii was not even a state in 1941 when a surprise attack by the Japanese took over 2500 american lives.
The terrorists declared war on the United States on 9/11 and killed 3000 innocent people.
You would have us do nothing?
It is a christian virtue to turn the other cheek, it is not mine.
I would have preferred a declaration of war against any nation supporting or harboring terrorists. I support a pre emptive strike into Syria, Iran, Jordan and Saudi Arabia in retaliation for the known association with terrorism these nations have displayed.
I truly hope the current administration has the courage to stay the course and rid the middle east of the islamic based terror groups.
It is an honorable task that over 30 nations have undertaken. To those other nations who stand on the sidelines and criticize, history will deal harshly with them.
That is as it should be.
amicus...
Hawaii was not even a state in 1941 when a surprise attack by the Japanese took over 2500 american lives.
The terrorists declared war on the United States on 9/11 and killed 3000 innocent people.
You would have us do nothing?
It is a christian virtue to turn the other cheek, it is not mine.
I would have preferred a declaration of war against any nation supporting or harboring terrorists. I support a pre emptive strike into Syria, Iran, Jordan and Saudi Arabia in retaliation for the known association with terrorism these nations have displayed.
I truly hope the current administration has the courage to stay the course and rid the middle east of the islamic based terror groups.
It is an honorable task that over 30 nations have undertaken. To those other nations who stand on the sidelines and criticize, history will deal harshly with them.
That is as it should be.
amicus...
shereads
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Oh Christ, Amicus. Everybody but you and Dick Cheney have finally admitted there was no link between Iraq and 9/11. Read "Imperial Hubris" and stop pretending there's some Grand Design here, beyond Bin Laden's.
Of course you won't read it. There's no point suggesting it. Goodbye.
Of course you won't read it. There's no point suggesting it. Goodbye.
amicus said:
Virtual_Burlesque
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Incurious George is a great supporter of the military.
By increasing the impediments and handicaps under which they must perform, he has made all of their accomplishments a far greater achievement against odds than they ever needed to be.
Through the expenditure of his energies, our troops have been sent into a conflict that has no justifiabl reason for being, without which, those service people would have never had the opportunity to show their disciplining and courage under fire.
Had he sent them in sufficient numbers, they would have not been able to demonstrate their determination in the face of overwhelming conditions.
Had he provided adequate body armor they would have been less able to demonstrate their stoicism when grievously wounded.
Had he recognized the necessity of an exit strategy, they would have been unable to show their grit, putting up with stop loss policies and multiple extensions of their tours of duty.
Had he supported the families at home of services people in the theatre of war, they would not have been able demonstrate their single-minded concentration upon the job at hand, instead of worrying about the hardships being endured by their loved ones at home.
Finally, had he not tried to reduce payments to family beneficiaries of service people in theatres of war, and support of long term medical facilities for wounded soldiers, they would not be able to show their splendid maintenance of discipline while being insulted by the ingratitude of the very politicians who uselessly sent them into harm’s way.
Yes, Incurious George is a great supporter of our men and women in uniform.
By increasing the impediments and handicaps under which they must perform, he has made all of their accomplishments a far greater achievement against odds than they ever needed to be.
Through the expenditure of his energies, our troops have been sent into a conflict that has no justifiabl reason for being, without which, those service people would have never had the opportunity to show their disciplining and courage under fire.
Had he sent them in sufficient numbers, they would have not been able to demonstrate their determination in the face of overwhelming conditions.
Had he provided adequate body armor they would have been less able to demonstrate their stoicism when grievously wounded.
Had he recognized the necessity of an exit strategy, they would have been unable to show their grit, putting up with stop loss policies and multiple extensions of their tours of duty.
Had he supported the families at home of services people in the theatre of war, they would not have been able demonstrate their single-minded concentration upon the job at hand, instead of worrying about the hardships being endured by their loved ones at home.
Finally, had he not tried to reduce payments to family beneficiaries of service people in theatres of war, and support of long term medical facilities for wounded soldiers, they would not be able to show their splendid maintenance of discipline while being insulted by the ingratitude of the very politicians who uselessly sent them into harm’s way.
Yes, Incurious George is a great supporter of our men and women in uniform.
amicus
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I think neither of last two posters have much of a clue...about anything...beyond political hatred.
I visit a marine corps base every few weeks to be with my daughter, her husband and children. I have some idea of how the troops view the military and the President.
They are in a war, a dangerous war and they know it. They are proud to do what they do. They are well cared for and supplied in ways you cannot know.
What they do hate...is the nature of people who denigrate both their efforts, those of their commanders all the way up to the Commander in Chief, the President.
Feel fortunate that you live in a country whose laws guarantee your right to free speech and right to express any opinion you wish.
There are many tactical aspects to the war in Iraq that those posting here seem not to comprehend. The ability to wage war has been limited by previous democratic administrations who cut military spending and intelligence sources.
When the President said, "You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wished you had..." He was speaking about the consistent efforts by liberal democrats to weaken the military.
It is evident from the choice of words and examples that the 'anti war faction' on Lit..is just that...anti war. They pick and glean items from the liberal press to support their opinions and seldom expose the core motivation that drives them.
Anyone familiar with military history realizes the difficulty of conducting operations in a theater of war several thousand miles away.
The cheap shots about the Presidents mental capacity, the inane whining about Vice President Cheney and Haliburton is just the defeated left frothing at the mouth as they realize their liberal platform was rejected by the american people.
Get over it.
amicus...
I visit a marine corps base every few weeks to be with my daughter, her husband and children. I have some idea of how the troops view the military and the President.
They are in a war, a dangerous war and they know it. They are proud to do what they do. They are well cared for and supplied in ways you cannot know.
What they do hate...is the nature of people who denigrate both their efforts, those of their commanders all the way up to the Commander in Chief, the President.
Feel fortunate that you live in a country whose laws guarantee your right to free speech and right to express any opinion you wish.
There are many tactical aspects to the war in Iraq that those posting here seem not to comprehend. The ability to wage war has been limited by previous democratic administrations who cut military spending and intelligence sources.
When the President said, "You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wished you had..." He was speaking about the consistent efforts by liberal democrats to weaken the military.
It is evident from the choice of words and examples that the 'anti war faction' on Lit..is just that...anti war. They pick and glean items from the liberal press to support their opinions and seldom expose the core motivation that drives them.
Anyone familiar with military history realizes the difficulty of conducting operations in a theater of war several thousand miles away.
The cheap shots about the Presidents mental capacity, the inane whining about Vice President Cheney and Haliburton is just the defeated left frothing at the mouth as they realize their liberal platform was rejected by the american people.
Get over it.
amicus...
Arioso
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Amicus, you're not a historian, so don't speak for them.
The majority of professional historians already condemn the actions of the Bush administration. And when we write the history of this period in U.S. politics (indeed, some are already writing it), it is the Bush camp that will be dealt with harshly. Indeed, many of us who teach history are helping our students understand the high price that nations paid in the 20th century for rushing to war, and the painstaking efforts that the world community put into developing stable international organizations for resolving conflict peacefully rather than through a force of arms.
You, amicus, haven't got a clue. As demonstrated by the fact that you attributed to the president a quote made by Rumsfeld -- last time I checked, he hadn't been elected.
And Bush hardly represents the will of the American people. He represents the fear and bigotry of those who elected him -- a number that falls far short of the total population (or even total voting-age population) of the U.S.
Huddle there in your conservative, reactionary muck and keep telling yourself that this war was justified. You're in for a very, very bitter turn of fate within the next five years. And those of us who understand history better than you do will continue to place the current war in its proper context for class after class of students -- reaching more people than you can with your impotent, rabid spew on this website.
And there ain't a thing you can do to stop me, baby. I've got my ear to the kids -- and they're NOT behind this war at all. Some have boyfriends, girlfriends, cousins, or high-school best friends serving overseas, and they're torn apart by the idea that someone they care about will die needlessly for a war that was engineered hastily and executed poorly for the political agenda of Bush and his cronies.
War is merely ONE tool that nations use, amicus. You should know that generals who care about their troops prefer it when governments use their OTHER tools first, to the utmost of their ability, before throwing young lives (and, of course, never the young sons and daughters of the president, vice president, and congressmen) out into the path of danger. And anyone familiar with military history, you pathetic armchair warmongerer, could have studied the battle of Algiers or *both* wars in Viet Nam/Indochina, and known from the get-go that Bush's belief that this would be over quickly and cleanly was a load of crap. Or they could have looked back further, to 1914, when all the leaders of Europe had Prussia's late-19th century six-week wars in mind and predicted they'd all be home by Christmas. That would have been a nice reminder of the hubris involved in assuming that a war will be a nice little stroll in the park, and therefore requires little investment of long-term planning (like, say, an exit-strategy?)
Get your brain out of over-simplified 'Day of Defeat' videogame versions of war and read some real history. Read some of the soul-searching, humbled reflections on the value of peace and international diplomacy written by the West German Chancellor Willy Brandt, who like all Germans was living in the shadow of Nazi Germany.
The more you and other right-wing War-is-Eternal-Glory die-hards keep trying to force the situation in the Middle East to fit your vision of the world, wherein the U.S. can do no wrong and shall never be held accountable for its actions because of course everything we do is always justified and never motivated by greed, the worse the resistance to our mere presence will get, and the more young people will die.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
The majority of professional historians already condemn the actions of the Bush administration. And when we write the history of this period in U.S. politics (indeed, some are already writing it), it is the Bush camp that will be dealt with harshly. Indeed, many of us who teach history are helping our students understand the high price that nations paid in the 20th century for rushing to war, and the painstaking efforts that the world community put into developing stable international organizations for resolving conflict peacefully rather than through a force of arms.
You, amicus, haven't got a clue. As demonstrated by the fact that you attributed to the president a quote made by Rumsfeld -- last time I checked, he hadn't been elected.
And Bush hardly represents the will of the American people. He represents the fear and bigotry of those who elected him -- a number that falls far short of the total population (or even total voting-age population) of the U.S.
Huddle there in your conservative, reactionary muck and keep telling yourself that this war was justified. You're in for a very, very bitter turn of fate within the next five years. And those of us who understand history better than you do will continue to place the current war in its proper context for class after class of students -- reaching more people than you can with your impotent, rabid spew on this website.
And there ain't a thing you can do to stop me, baby. I've got my ear to the kids -- and they're NOT behind this war at all. Some have boyfriends, girlfriends, cousins, or high-school best friends serving overseas, and they're torn apart by the idea that someone they care about will die needlessly for a war that was engineered hastily and executed poorly for the political agenda of Bush and his cronies.
War is merely ONE tool that nations use, amicus. You should know that generals who care about their troops prefer it when governments use their OTHER tools first, to the utmost of their ability, before throwing young lives (and, of course, never the young sons and daughters of the president, vice president, and congressmen) out into the path of danger. And anyone familiar with military history, you pathetic armchair warmongerer, could have studied the battle of Algiers or *both* wars in Viet Nam/Indochina, and known from the get-go that Bush's belief that this would be over quickly and cleanly was a load of crap. Or they could have looked back further, to 1914, when all the leaders of Europe had Prussia's late-19th century six-week wars in mind and predicted they'd all be home by Christmas. That would have been a nice reminder of the hubris involved in assuming that a war will be a nice little stroll in the park, and therefore requires little investment of long-term planning (like, say, an exit-strategy?)
Get your brain out of over-simplified 'Day of Defeat' videogame versions of war and read some real history. Read some of the soul-searching, humbled reflections on the value of peace and international diplomacy written by the West German Chancellor Willy Brandt, who like all Germans was living in the shadow of Nazi Germany.
The more you and other right-wing War-is-Eternal-Glory die-hards keep trying to force the situation in the Middle East to fit your vision of the world, wherein the U.S. can do no wrong and shall never be held accountable for its actions because of course everything we do is always justified and never motivated by greed, the worse the resistance to our mere presence will get, and the more young people will die.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
amicus
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Well, arioso....my degree was in History...american colonial history of all things and my graduate work as well...but I remain an 'amateur' historian and historiographer as I have never been paid to teach history.
However, I am fully engaged in advising young college students about the 90 percent of liberal professors in the nations colleges that daily inject their anti american hatred into the classrooms
I used to think that an educated educator would feel shame at propagandizing in the classroom...I was young and innocent.
You take tax money and student loans for your salary and then betray the very concept of education.
I hope you feel pride in that.
America does not need to be defended from the likes of you, even the kids when they get out into the real world will see america for what it is...the best damned country in the whole world....cheers...
amicus
However, I am fully engaged in advising young college students about the 90 percent of liberal professors in the nations colleges that daily inject their anti american hatred into the classrooms
I used to think that an educated educator would feel shame at propagandizing in the classroom...I was young and innocent.
You take tax money and student loans for your salary and then betray the very concept of education.
I hope you feel pride in that.
America does not need to be defended from the likes of you, even the kids when they get out into the real world will see america for what it is...the best damned country in the whole world....cheers...
amicus
Arioso
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Awwww, poor amicus. Trying to assure yourself that you have some influence outside of the irritation you generate as a message board troll?
I take great pride in teaching all of my history students to think for themselves.
And since you tend to spout the same hodge-podge of polemics that Joseph Goebbels took such pride in orchestrating in the 1930s, I have a very good idea as to why you've never been paid to teach history. It's precisely because most institutions of higher education want to keep propaganda out of the classroom that they've never wanted you, and that I'm fairly certain you never completed your graduate work. It shows in your selective skewing of facts, your dogged and illogical repetition of right-wing dogma, and in your desperate resort to slurs.
No one listens to you out there in the real world, do they? And that just chaps your hide to no end.
I love it.
I take great pride in teaching all of my history students to think for themselves.
And since you tend to spout the same hodge-podge of polemics that Joseph Goebbels took such pride in orchestrating in the 1930s, I have a very good idea as to why you've never been paid to teach history. It's precisely because most institutions of higher education want to keep propaganda out of the classroom that they've never wanted you, and that I'm fairly certain you never completed your graduate work. It shows in your selective skewing of facts, your dogged and illogical repetition of right-wing dogma, and in your desperate resort to slurs.
No one listens to you out there in the real world, do they? And that just chaps your hide to no end.
I love it.
rgraham666
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I always return to the Master when studying war.
Shrub II and his cronies weren't aware of the disadvantages. They didn't even fight their real opponent for Christ sake.
No wonder they're flailing now.
Gary Chambers
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Arioso said:
I think you've hit the nail squarely here. Extremists crave attention. It's a form of mental or emotional illness, I'm sure. Perhaps it's that thing they used to call hysteria. Yes, that seems likely. The sad thing about Amicus is that he cannot see that the vast majority of people could care less what label he puts on his hysteria. Black, white; left, right; Christian, Muslim or Jew, people turn away from extremists regardless of the label. When confronted by mental illness, turning away without comment usually seems the kindest thing to do. The hysterical extremist, however, is left feeling the sting of rejection, which in turn makes him grow even louder and more obnoxious in a desperate bid to make people turn around for a second glance. It used to be seen only as a female affliction, women being such emotional creatures at times, but Amicus is bravely demonstrating that hysteria is not gender specific. Perhaps that is how he will finally get the recognition he longs for: as a guinea pig for some professor of psychiatry with a research grant.
amicus
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Oh, my...holiday cheer is certainly in the air.
It is pleasant to note the unassailable liberal mentality descend into a hissy fit and declare the opposition inadequately prepared and beneath contempt.
A pleasure to see the social democracies of european ilk scream in outrage when their paltry natures are exposed.
It is sad in a way...the poor liberal left is faced with a considered move to the right in hopes of regaining lost stature. That just galls the hell out of them.
Classic liberals were unashamed to boast of a socialist utopia for all if only the proletariat would live up to the ideals of Marx and Engles.
A lost cause this Liberal agenda, lost, defeated, rejected and without a home. All they can do is whine and point fingers and still avoid defending their base.
The passion is gone and cynicism reigns, the king is dead, long live the new king....but where oh where is he?
amicus...
It is pleasant to note the unassailable liberal mentality descend into a hissy fit and declare the opposition inadequately prepared and beneath contempt.
A pleasure to see the social democracies of european ilk scream in outrage when their paltry natures are exposed.
It is sad in a way...the poor liberal left is faced with a considered move to the right in hopes of regaining lost stature. That just galls the hell out of them.
Classic liberals were unashamed to boast of a socialist utopia for all if only the proletariat would live up to the ideals of Marx and Engles.
A lost cause this Liberal agenda, lost, defeated, rejected and without a home. All they can do is whine and point fingers and still avoid defending their base.
The passion is gone and cynicism reigns, the king is dead, long live the new king....but where oh where is he?
amicus...
Arioso
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Gary Chambers said:
It's an interesting idea, Gary, although I imagine most of the studies have already been done -- in abnormal child psychology, most likely.
And I do imagine that most of the generals in the U.S. military have read Sun Tzu, and are familiar with the passage that rgraham666 cited. So, while they have to toe the line in public and carry out their job, I'll be they're cringing in private that the extremists in Bush's cabinet have forced them to sustain exactly the type of dead-end, long-term bloodbath that they don't want to be in.
Virtual_Burlesque
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Hysteria is by definition a uniquely female disorderGary Chambers said:
I mean, come on now! You have never seen a man with hysterics, have you?
You don’t think . . .
. . . Amicus is a woman?
Virtual_Burlesque
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As soon as I posted that, I realized how wrong it was.Arioso said:
To be a woman, one must be creative. Even if only it is to come up with a believable reason why one won’t go to bed with somebody, who if they were told the absolute truth, would turn into a tower sniper.
I think the movie I am thinking of was called Dark Star.
In it, one character was a bomb that wanted to blow up the galaxy. I forget what was wrong with the bomb, but it reminds me of Animus.
I wonder why?
shereads
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I wish I could feel grief for the dead without hating the people whose lies killed them and despising the voters who rewarded the lie.
My blood still boils like it did the first time I read this typical response to Bush's failure in Iraq:
"At least Bush did something." Or amicus' variation today, "What would you have done? Nothing?" To know there are adults out there who think like playground bullies, people who are proud of this bloodbath, makes me suspect something that even extremists like amicus are reluctant to say: that the Iraqi civlians who've died on our dime had it coming. For no other reason than their resemblance to the 9/11 hijackers.
You may call those children and other innocents "collateral damage" and sigh and shrug and tsk-tsk, as if their deaths were an unavoidable consequence of seeing justice done. But deep down, even you know that's bullshit. Those 10,000 are payback for the 3,000 who died in the World Trade Center.
As for our own dead, you want them to remain faceless for reasons I still don't understand.
My blood still boils like it did the first time I read this typical response to Bush's failure in Iraq:
"At least Bush did something." Or amicus' variation today, "What would you have done? Nothing?" To know there are adults out there who think like playground bullies, people who are proud of this bloodbath, makes me suspect something that even extremists like amicus are reluctant to say: that the Iraqi civlians who've died on our dime had it coming. For no other reason than their resemblance to the 9/11 hijackers.
You may call those children and other innocents "collateral damage" and sigh and shrug and tsk-tsk, as if their deaths were an unavoidable consequence of seeing justice done. But deep down, even you know that's bullshit. Those 10,000 are payback for the 3,000 who died in the World Trade Center.
As for our own dead, you want them to remain faceless for reasons I still don't understand.
shereads
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"Capitalizing on growing anti-U.S. animosity, Osama bin Laden’s genius lies not simply in calling for jihad, but in articulating a consistent and convincing case that Islam is under attack by America."
From publisher's commentary on Imperial Hubris. Order a copy, amicus, and I'll refund your money with a Paypal credit.
You've been had. You and your ilk have behaved like Bin Laden's personal hand puppets. I was going to suggest that you'd rather die than admit it, but that's not completely accurate. You'd prefer that other people do the dying part.
The thing you'd like about Imperial Hubris is that the author agrees with your lot on one thing: the only response to terrorism that's left to us now, because of Bush's actions in Iraq, may be an ongoing bloodbath whose goal is to wipe out Islam.
From publisher's commentary on Imperial Hubris. Order a copy, amicus, and I'll refund your money with a Paypal credit.
You've been had. You and your ilk have behaved like Bin Laden's personal hand puppets. I was going to suggest that you'd rather die than admit it, but that's not completely accurate. You'd prefer that other people do the dying part.
The thing you'd like about Imperial Hubris is that the author agrees with your lot on one thing: the only response to terrorism that's left to us now, because of Bush's actions in Iraq, may be an ongoing bloodbath whose goal is to wipe out Islam.
Gary Chambers
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shereads said:
Dearest Shereads, there is room in our lives for passions. Passionately held convictions don't jive with the doctrine of Corporate-Christianity, so the world is constantly trying to strip us of our passions. But with you they can't succeed. You are a human being, firm in her devotion to what she believes is right and just. Even if you turned out to be wrong, no one could take away your courage to stand, alone if necessary, and shout your passionately held convictions from the rooftoops. Your hatred of the liars who created the dance of death, and of the selfish pigs who endorse it, is a perfect match for your grief. It's entirely appropriate, and it has another very appealing side effect. Because it flows from your mind and not from your vagina, it confirms that you are one very sexy lady, for a fertile and corageous mind is the sexiest part of all.
