Past and Present Tenses

[Boxlicker101]

I just got this feedback from Any Mouse. I think he's wrong, and I actually somewhat resent his suggestion. I do appreciate constructive criticism, but only if it is reasonable.

Grammatical comment:
04/10/08 By: Anonymous in Canada
You need to avoid switching back and forth between past and present tenses. Don't describe, for example, someone's body as it is now (present tense), and then describe how a character ravaged it (past tense).

I always write in past tense. When doing this, I always describe actions as happening in past tense. However, when describing the characters, including their appearance and their preferences, as long as they are currently existing characters, I use present tense. For example: Susan has large breasts and she loves to have me suck them. Last night, we went... After all, Susan still has large breasts, and still loves to have me suck them.

Of course, if the characters are no longer part of the life of the protag, the descriptions are in past tense. In the story of Jayne Mansfield I wrote, I used past tense in all the descriptions. If I write something like: John's first girl friend had red hair.. I use past tense, because she is no longer a part of John's life, although she may still have red hair.

Last night, Susan and I went to a restaurant. The waitress had red hair and her eyes were green. Presumably, she still has red hair and green eyes, but she is not part of any ongoing story anymore. At the same time: Last night, Susan and I went to our favorite restaurant. As usual, our waitress was Daisy. She has red hair and likes to flirt with both of us. She has a standing invitation to join us n a threesome.

Anyhow, I just thought I would like to gripe about bad advice.

 

[TE999]

Those who can't do...criticize.

 

[curiositykitten]

Hay Boxlicker, Just wanted to say you've got a very valid gripe. I understand perfectly your use of tenses and believe you're doing just fine! Keep up the great work! And the great stories!

 

[sr71plt]

Can't tell what they might have meant without a more comprehensive/extensive example than you give. This sounds like it might not deal with the tense of the story action at all.

What story?

 

[Pure]

box, i tend to agree with your critic, though your procedure might be defensible.

it feels like someone is sitting next to me in a bar, telling a story, AND he currently knows the person, and he's telling me about them, present tense. "Allison met an old boyfriend last month. (She has huge breasts, if you remember.)"

IOW the narrator is stressing a present relationship and knowledge, over and above the story.

surely the more natural is, in telling a story: "Alice went to college last year. She was a beautiful girl and everyone noticed her."

 

[3113]

\surely the more natural is, in telling a story: "Alice went to college last year. She was a beautiful girl and everyone noticed her."

....and her breasts."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Very few people are skilled at giving criticism. And too many people are anal about rules.

 

[neonlyte]

Within the context of story telling, I think you're ok. Setting it all in past tense would kill the tale.

 

[cantdog]

box, i tend to agree with your critic, though your procedure might be defensible.

it feels like someone is sitting next to me in a bar, telling a story, AND he currently knows the person, and he's telling me about them, present tense. "Allison met an old boyfriend last month. (She has huge breasts, if you remember.)"

IOW the narrator is stressing a present relationship and knowledge, over and above the story.

surely the more natural is, in telling a story: "Alice went to college last year. She was a beautiful girl and everyone noticed her."

In third person, yes. In first person, Box has the right idea.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Can't tell what they might have meant without a more comprehensive/extensive example than you give. This sounds like it might not deal with the tense of the story action at all.

What story?

The specific story is "Ann and Jim Go Swinging" which is in third person, past tense. Ann is the primary protag.

 

[Katyusha]

Box, some people just have it drilled into them that you don't ever change tenses in a paragraph like that. If you're describing something in the present tense, then all actions must also be in the present, or you must describe them in the past or future tenses. They know that that type of a rule exists but they haven't the least idea how to properly apply it; it's like a friend of mine who tries to change every single passive sentence in a paper to an active voice because it shows up as an error in Word, and then his papers end up choppy and somewhat nonsensical. He doesn't understand that sometimes the passive voice is good to use and he's got it in his head that you never, ever use passive voice. It's the same with other grammar rules too.

The way you're writing is just fine, so ignore the comment from the person who can't properly apply the rules of grammar to writing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hay Boxlicker, Just wanted to say you've got a very valid gripe. I understand perfectly your use of tenses and believe you're doing just fine! Keep up the great work! And the great stories!

Thanks, Kitty. I like to hear or read comments like that, especially from women.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

In third person, yes. In first person, Box has the right idea.

Seconded.

First person is subjective and under the rule of subjective time. Third person is omniscient (if omniscient) and beyond the touch of nature's depredations.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Seconded.

First person is subjective and under the rule of subjective time. Third person is omniscient (if omniscient) and beyond the touch of nature's depredations.

Thirded. I guess the person who left the comment just doesn't like stories told in first person view. As a wise man once said "Fuck the fucking fuckers."

 

[sweetness6280]

Og, some people just have it drilled into them that you don't ever change tenses in a paragraph like that. If you're describing something in the present tense, then all actions must also be in the present, or you must describe them in the past or future tenses. They know that that type of a rule exists but they haven't the least idea how to properly apply it; it's like a friend of mine who tries to change every single passive sentence in a paper to an active voice because it shows up as an error in Word, and then his papers end up choppy and somewhat nonsensical. He doesn't understand that sometimes the passive voice is good to use and he's got it in his head that you never, ever use passive voice. It's the same with other grammar rules too.

The way you're writing is just fine, so ignore the comment from the person who can't properly apply the rules of grammar to writing.

*grins* I just love grading a paper that was edited by Word. My green pen gets all excited.

Seconded.

First person is subjective and under the rule of subjective time. Third person is omniscient (if omniscient) and beyond the touch of nature's depredations.

Perfectly worded.


Box, your usage is correct. Just because someone understands the basic rules of grammar, does not mean they know how to apply them. Ignore the remark.

 

[jomar]

*grins* I just love grading a paper that was edited by Word. My green pen gets all excited.

What happened to red? Or is it a self-esteem thing.

 

[sweetness6280]

What happened to red? Or is it a self-esteem thing.

You guessed it. Easier to see comments in any color that is not red. Students see red, and immediately become anxious. Of course, I have received papers back that looked like the prof hit an artery, and still received an A. Comments can be negative or positive, and I prefer a paper covered in comments. If I receive one with only the grade on the last page, I conclude that I have not moved the reader in any appreciable way.

I know teachers and profs who use green or purple, and even a few who use a combination of colors. Some still use red, of course.

 

[glynndah]

box, i tend to agree with your critic, though your procedure might be defensible.

it feels like someone is sitting next to me in a bar, telling a story, AND he currently knows the person, and he's telling me about them, present tense. "Allison met an old boyfriend last month. (She has huge breasts, if you remember.)"

IOW the narrator is stressing a present relationship and knowledge, over and above the story.

surely the more natural is, in telling a story: "Alice went to college last year. She was a beautiful girl and everyone noticed her."

The first thing I thought when reading this is "And what is she now?" Box, I think you're right and I had no trouble following you.

 

[sr71plt]

You guessed it. Easier to see comments in any color that is not red. Students see red, and immediately become anxious. Of course, I have received papers back that looked like the prof hit an artery, and still received an A. Comments can be negative or positive, and I prefer a paper covered in comments. If I receive one with only the grade on the last page, I conclude that I have not moved the reader in any appreciable way.

I know teachers and profs who use green or purple, and even a few who use a combination of colors. Some still use red, of course.

Blue. I use blue pencils to edit. And erasable ones too, so that I can change my mind.

 

[Katyusha]

*grins* I just love grading a paper that was edited by Word. My green pen gets all excited.

Indeed...I always had a blast editing his papers after he'd followed all of Word's suggestions...when I'd send it back he'd IM me and say, "But Word says that's wrong."

Screw what Word says. Its editing tools help but are not to be taken as gospel.

 

[Pure]

reply to cant and mabeuse

Originally Posted by cantdog
/In third person, yes [to pure's suggestion of past tense to describe the person]. In first person, Box has the right idea. /

dr. m //Seconded.

First person is subjective and under the rule of subjective time. Third person is omniscient (if omniscient) and beyond the touch of nature's depredations.//

Pure: I do not agree. it's definitely odd to say --as cant and dr m seem to suggest: "It was spring of 1960, and I was 12. I fell in love with Jane. We were both in sixth grade. She _is_ beautiful." "was" is natural.

the present state of her is not the subject of the story.

 

[Katyusha]

Pure: I do not agree. it's definitely odd to say --as cant and dr m seem to suggest: "It was spring of 1960, and I was 12. I fell in love with Jane. We were both in sixth grade. She _is_ beautiful." "was" is natural.

the present state of her is not the subject of the story.

Yes but you're describing ONLY a past situation in this context, a memory, where everything WOULD be past-tense.

However, say the timeframe of the story is now present day and your character's all grown up, and has run into Jane for the first time since college, and the storyline is going to take them through a sexual encounter. It might go something like this: "I ran into Jane for the first time in more than fifteen years last night. I couldn't believe it; she still has that long, dark hair with the slight wave to it and not a hint of gray, and her body's got the most sumptuous curves; she is far from the skinny girl she had been in college. I immediately wanted to tear her clothes off right then, in the restaurant..."

In this case, he's talking about an event that happened last night (in the past), but he's ALSO thinking about Jane in the present now that he's seen her again and she's an integral part of the story. He's thinking of her in the present-tense, and her long, dark hair and curves aren't going to go away overnight.

See the difference?

 

[al_Ussa]

Past pretenses?

 

[jomar]

You guessed it. Easier to see comments in any color that is not red. Students see red, and immediately become anxious. Of course, I have received papers back that looked like the prof hit an artery, and still received an A.

I used to have nightmares from my thesis days. So, I've been tense in the past, but not presently.

 

[sr71plt]

OK, a read the story specifically indexed until I thought there was a tense problem.

There's one in paragraph two, so I can see the commenter's point.

"Jim didn't change his evaluation, but he did agree to the similarity. Ann has mostly Italian ancestors, and the other woman seemed to be of the same descent. Both women had the same light olive complexion, short, dark hair and big, dark brown eyes."

This is going along in past tense and switches to present with "Ann has mostly Italian ancestors," and then goes back to past tense with "Both women had the same light olive complexion . . ."

Ann's ancestors and features are on the same level--she had them and still has them. So, this was an improper switch of tenses. Should be one tense or the other, not a mix.

I didn't read any farther, so I don't know how much of a problem there is in the story as a whole.