Passive Discipline

[MissTaken]

Some submissives require a more passive approach to discipline as they gain more pleasure in the punitive spanking than is conducive to their learning to change behavior.

Sometimes, a sassy sub who is looking for that sort of attention is fun. But, when they unconciously or conciously are not changing behaviors or are acting in a manner unbefitting your expectations for them, passive discipline can be far more effective in dealing with their behaviors.

First, the word "discipline" is one I use to discuss how we help others learn to manage their own behaviors. "Discipline" require patience and learning. If I have repeatedly provided discipline for a sub who continues to engage in the targetted behavior, I feel that I am falling down on the job. I am missing the key that will motivate or encourage the submissive to learn or change the behavior.

So, here is an article that discusses the use of passive discipline.

Does anyone have other ideas for passive discipline?

Subs? how do you feel about such disciplinary techniques?

http://www.steel-door.com/Passive_Discipline.html

With many thanks to FRR Mallory for letting us use the articles at Mistress Steele's Chamber. (copyright 1995-2002 and used with permission of the author)

"Never give the submissive what they want. That is to reward this behavior. Many submissives want to draw the 'punitive discipline' of the Dominant so it becomes imperative to not respond. (Many submissives want and enjoy physical discipline like spanking.) If you address real life behavior problems by using something that the submissive enjoys then you are encouraging continuing bad behavior!

If your relationship is occurring in real life (physically together) one of the most effective methods of non-attention control is to create a quiet spot. When the submissive takes actions that 'appear' out of control (they are in truth not out of control) then the submissive should be remanded to the quiet spot. A good spot is usually the corner of a closet. In addition the Dominant should place nothing in the area of the spot that is of interest except an index card that states openly the various steps of discipline.



1: SILENCE....(length of time <20 minutes>)
(Use a common egg timer that ticks rather loudly)
(upon failure to remain in place and silent EACH step
is taken progressively)
2: REMOVAL OF CLOTHING (restart timer)
3: INSERTION OF GAG (restart timer) -
This SHOULD be done with a sub
who doesn't like gags.
(REMIND the sub that vocalizing is THEIR choice
so control of usage of the gag is THEIR choice too!)
4: FORMAL KNEEL POSITION (restart timer)
5: KNEEL ON MAT (restart timer)
6: COLLARED, GAGGED, KNEELING - COLLAR BOUND TO WALL
(restart timer)
7: BANISHMENT FROM DOM PRESENCE FOR 2 hours
8: BANISHMENT FROM DOM PRESENCE FOR 24 hours
(requirement to spend entire 24 hour period copying by hand
on paper (I will NOT disrespect my Master)
allowing 2 (4 hour sleep periods).

The Dominant should use something like an egg timer and have the submissive sit facing nothing but the list for a predetermined amount of time (20 minutes).

Part of acting out is a desire for attention - even negative attention. And, a part of the submissive does not want to submit. That part is the one fighting the Dominant. The Dominant must nullify the dominant side within the submissive without confronting it directly (such as an argument). Simply put, when the dominant aspect of a submissive manifests the submissive will not be played with, paid attention to or responded to until the submissive acknowledges self control and stops using their dominant side to combat, trigger or incite their Dominant. Believe it or not this works. The dominant side of a submissive is there as a part of the submissive, therefore the submissive does control that sides actions. No evasions"

 

[James G 5]

I've had quite a bit of experience with SAMs and attention seeking Bottoms who claim to be submissive but are really the type to try & manipulate the Dom or Top from the bottom to gain attention
Those're some of the behaviors (if engaged in frequently) I use to distinguish the 3 categories in my rather loose system
I've found with attention seeking/manipulative bottoms withdrawl of attention works
With SAMs, very little works as they are in it for their own gratification alone, and if you don't give them what they want they will walk
Of course, there's generally some bleed over of these behaviors from time to time among the three groups and you need to look at the time & situation
I would be careful of things like "GAG, if she doesn't like them" becuase of the B'rer Rabbit "Don't throw me in the briar patch!" syndrome
Aside from attention withdrawl, some forms of military discipline can work well
NO one I know likes scrubbing toilests with toothbrushes.

My early morning 2 cents

 

[Ebonyfire]

That is exactly why I do not discuss discipline with My subs. I discipline at My whim, not their desire.

I have their checklists, I know what they are about, and I know what they like and dislike. But it is all the same to Me.

If it is not a hard limit, it may or may not be on the table. Obedience is more important than worrying about punishing and disciplining.

It is a matter of control to Me.

 

[Mr. Bootie]

Thank You for reminding me James

I've had quite a bit of experience with SAMs and attention seeking Bottoms who claim to be submissive but are really the type to try & manipulate the Dom or Top from the bottom to gain attention
Those're some of the behaviors (if engaged in frequently) I use to distinguish the 3 categories in my rather loose system
I've found with attention seeking/manipulative bottoms withdrawl of attention works
With SAMs, very little works as they are in it for their own gratification alone, and if you don't give them what they want they will walk
Of course, there's generally some bleed over of these behaviors from time to time among the three groups and you need to look at the time & situation
I would be careful of things like "GAG, if she doesn't like them" becuase of the B'rer Rabbit "Don't throw me in the briar patch!" syndrome
Aside from attention withdrawl, some forms of military discipline can work well
NO one I know likes scrubbing toilests with toothbrushes.

My early morning 2 cents

Not only do I like the idea of facing the closet for 20 minutes. ( Which I have used in the past.) I also like the military methods also. I can think of a few toilets that need to be scrubbed with a toothbrush for my sub.

 

[WriterDom]

It's all about knowing your sub and not using a cookie cutter approach. Like the sub that said her Dom abandoning her for 7 days wasn't punishment, but a vacation. I think it was morninggirl who said corner time would be relaxing and not punishment.

I'm thinking more and more that an extended version of the Pilates side kick series would be good discipline. We were disciplined with exercise in the Navy. I believed they called it Mashing. And if you really fucked up, there was a special session held at night with the problem recruits from all the companies.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

1: SILENCE....(length of time <20 minutes>)
(Use a common egg timer that ticks rather loudly)
(upon failure to remain in place and silent EACH step
is taken progressively)

8: BANISHMENT FROM DOM PRESENCE FOR 24 hours

i agree to a point, but skip the progression, and adjust the last.

Take away any possibility of servitude. Why let them have the least bit of what they wish?

Nothing like an icy, cold dip in the pool of vanilla land to clear a head.

 

[il mio angelo]

This was/is a topic that has been adreesed many times in my discussions with potential Doms. Because I enjoy pain, it certainly cannot be used as punishment.

There is a man that knows me rather well, we are good friends and our connection is amazing. He has told me that if I were his, he would do things like not allow me to talk for a prolonged period of time, not allow me to touch or even be near him physically, and in a more extreme circumstance, have no contact with him at all for a period of time that he saw fit. He knows me well enough to know that all of these things would be far more affective in making me truly learn my mistake, then any pain discipline or lecture.

For me the most severe punishement or discipline is simply seeing the disappointment on his face, or hearing it in his voice. Couple that with not being allowed contact or interaction with him for a time, and I will surely learn to adjust or eliminate the targetted behavior.

Writing assignments can be very effective, such as essays, where a great deal of thought is required to express a point of view or understanding of my error. In the past I was also punished by being required to say or do little things before or during my regular daily activities to make me constantly aware of his disappointment or disapproval in something that I had done.

~angel

 

[morninggirl5]

Discipline by its very nature is impassive. All of the methods described, while not involving a lot of overt action by the dom are in fact examples of active discipline.


The only true passive discipline is simply ignoring the displeasing behavior and patiently waiting for the behavior to become extinct. Most people aren't that patient.

 

[cellis]

Himself employs this method to a degree... but He does throw in the humiliation factor. He knows I hate to seen in a bad light and for to post about some error is very difficult and humiliating... Ignoring me is the very worst... the very worst thing He can do to me.... It is the most painful form of punishment there is.

 

[s'lara]

Indifference is a cutting tool especially when wielded at the right time.

"Acting out" or "brat behavior" as a means to gain attention is ... ugh, well it is not cool. i've been there and it does nothing but create a poop-storm. Lessons learned and i learned them well.

i preferred to be disciplined if i did not behave as expected. Period. My expectation of Dominant control is along the lines of Eb's. If i hadn't behaved as required, i fully expected to be removed from the Dominant's presence. That is the worst of all. Unable to serve because of my actions. Talk about kicking yourself.

lara

 

[MissTaken]

I think that while it may be tiring, making the discipline appropriate to the offense is far more effective for a behavior you really want changed.

So, if the submissive takes a sassy tone or demonstrates disrespect at a public function, perhaps, the submissive needs to sit in a corner and write while everyone else parties on? It seems that many of those forms of discipline do involve withdreawal on the part of the Dom/me to some degree or another.

Withdrawal doesn't necessarily mean ignoring him or her. IN fact, a lecture can be felt as a withdrawal of affection, at least during the time of the lecture.

So, activities that take away the attention that the submissive so badly craves seem to be rather popular around here

 

[MissTaken]

An additional thought

My children are both of an age where they will do some pretty etrocious things to get attention or try to manipulate the circumstances.

They both know they have reached a line when I say, "Is that how to get what you want?"

It then opens discussion concerning appropriate behavior and how they can change their current path. They also know when I pose the question that there is no way on God's green earth they are going to get whatever they are seeking.

Just a quick brain fart.