none2_none2
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Passing of Sally Ride
- Thread starter none2_none2
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Stella_Omega
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Yes. We desperately need role models and heroes.
Stella_Omega
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yep. .
Stella_Omega
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maybe she knew that everyone else would suddenly forget all about her accomplishments if they learned that she was a lesbian.
If she had been hetero, no one would have expected her to hide that.
Instead while other astronauts kissed their normative spouses in public, she had to hide her life partner from everybody.
BiBunny
Moon Queen & Wanderer
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She was married to a man then.
none2_none2
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We'll never know what exactly was going on in her head. I would tend to guess that with a 27 year relationship that she wasn't ashamed of being gay. Could two people staying together that long if they were ashamed of their love?
I really don't see how her coming out affects her ability to be a role model. She simply didn't emphasize that part of her life to the public. Her sister appears to be very out. Her name is Rev Bear Ride. Perhaps Sally thought that she didn't want to follow in her sister's footsteps. In other areas people do not always anounce their differences. For instance, think of presidents of the US. It isn't emphasized that President FDR would have been referred to as a "cripple" in his day. In some ways he tried to keep it hidden. Still anybody with a handicap can look to his life and say that he didn't let his differences keep him from going all the way to the White House. He also brought his compassion for others with things such as his March of Dimes campaign.
No one should be required to be in the closet, but likewise that also means having the individual right to decide your own level comfort for sharing your personal life. That is true with any aspect of one's self. If you look at the origins of the word personality, it comes from the Latin word persona. Persona translates to "mask". We all wear masks to one degree or another. For instance, we are all capable of hurtful thoughts. Many of them we keep to ourselves. A parent may have days where they wish they never had been parents, but they don't share those thoughts with their children. You may not feel very loving towards a lover on a particular day, but you don't tell that person that you don't love them.
Again, I'm not in Sally's head, so I can only guess. She was in the male dominated field both for physics and being an astronaut. Being the first female astronaut, she may have felt an obligation to encourage girls and young women to consider those fields. Had she been an open lesbian, some would have dismissed her achievements. It is not that uncommon for parts of the larger society to feminize gay men and masculine lesbians. So some may have made those fields sound like Sally was natural for them because as a lesbian she wasn't really feminine to begin with -- that some how a "girly" girl just couldn't cut it.
Why shouldn't a young girl who loves dolls, dresses, make-up, jewlery, baby sitting feel as comfortable in those fields as a masculine person? If it is about strength, it probably matters less in space since gravity is much less. Thus, is there a particular advantage to being a male in space? Perhaps there was when she started such as the extra engineering needed to deal with the anatomy of a female in regards to going to the restroom. It was a problem then, but obiously it has been addressed.
Perhaps her partner or sister when they are past the grief, may write something to reveal more about Sally. Regardless, I just see her passing as a loss to everyone -- male/female; gay/str8/bi, and American/non-American. She is someone all should be proud of.
I really don't see how her coming out affects her ability to be a role model. She simply didn't emphasize that part of her life to the public. Her sister appears to be very out. Her name is Rev Bear Ride. Perhaps Sally thought that she didn't want to follow in her sister's footsteps. In other areas people do not always anounce their differences. For instance, think of presidents of the US. It isn't emphasized that President FDR would have been referred to as a "cripple" in his day. In some ways he tried to keep it hidden. Still anybody with a handicap can look to his life and say that he didn't let his differences keep him from going all the way to the White House. He also brought his compassion for others with things such as his March of Dimes campaign.
No one should be required to be in the closet, but likewise that also means having the individual right to decide your own level comfort for sharing your personal life. That is true with any aspect of one's self. If you look at the origins of the word personality, it comes from the Latin word persona. Persona translates to "mask". We all wear masks to one degree or another. For instance, we are all capable of hurtful thoughts. Many of them we keep to ourselves. A parent may have days where they wish they never had been parents, but they don't share those thoughts with their children. You may not feel very loving towards a lover on a particular day, but you don't tell that person that you don't love them.
Again, I'm not in Sally's head, so I can only guess. She was in the male dominated field both for physics and being an astronaut. Being the first female astronaut, she may have felt an obligation to encourage girls and young women to consider those fields. Had she been an open lesbian, some would have dismissed her achievements. It is not that uncommon for parts of the larger society to feminize gay men and masculine lesbians. So some may have made those fields sound like Sally was natural for them because as a lesbian she wasn't really feminine to begin with -- that some how a "girly" girl just couldn't cut it.
Why shouldn't a young girl who loves dolls, dresses, make-up, jewlery, baby sitting feel as comfortable in those fields as a masculine person? If it is about strength, it probably matters less in space since gravity is much less. Thus, is there a particular advantage to being a male in space? Perhaps there was when she started such as the extra engineering needed to deal with the anatomy of a female in regards to going to the restroom. It was a problem then, but obiously it has been addressed.
Perhaps her partner or sister when they are past the grief, may write something to reveal more about Sally. Regardless, I just see her passing as a loss to everyone -- male/female; gay/str8/bi, and American/non-American. She is someone all should be proud of.
Stella_Omega
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NO one is questioning her right to remain closeted. Her life, her right to make her choices.
The discussion is about how wonderful it would have been if she had been out-- not for her sake, but for growing young women who needed to see that a member of their marginalized identity could be a national hero.
That would have been wonderful.
The discussion is about how wonderful it would have been if she had been out-- not for her sake, but for growing young women who needed to see that a member of their marginalized identity could be a national hero.
That would have been wonderful.
Stella_Omega
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Yes, indeed. And that's how she lived, because no one would have demanded otherwise.
It is always a mixed bag about being out. It has to be a personal decision, because fortunately or unfortunately something like being gay does make you a symbol when you are out, it starts coloring how things go in your life. In reality it would be great to be able to say "being gay is what I am, it isn't who I am", but it doesnt work like that. Someone becomes 'The actor X, who is openly gay" or the athlete Y, who is gay".
On the other hand, by being out it helps a great deal. It gives young gay kids someone they can know is out there, that the stereotypes they often hear are crap, that Sally Ride was a brillliant woman who became an astronaut, and so forth. One of the biggest factors in acceptance of gays is people knowing someone is gay, and if she had been out, someone might say "geez, sally ride is gay, and look at what kind of women she is, my god, she isn't the devil incarnate, she isn't trying to convert my daughter to being dyke, etc (it is why the religious right in the US have lost the war over gays, once people above a certain age start dying out, it is going to be a different world, because to people now in the 30's and younger, it isn't a big deal, they know gay people or know of them..whereas older generations, especially those in their 50's and beyond, often don't know anyone who is gay and maintain the old beliefs and such (put it this way, younger evangelical christians, unlike their parents, are a lot more willing to see gays protected by rights laws and a surprising percentage of them have no problem with legal recognition of same sex marriage, even if they believe their faith doesn't support it). The more who come out, the less chance their is to demonize gays as sexual perverts, promiscuous predators, etc.
On the other hand, by being out it helps a great deal. It gives young gay kids someone they can know is out there, that the stereotypes they often hear are crap, that Sally Ride was a brillliant woman who became an astronaut, and so forth. One of the biggest factors in acceptance of gays is people knowing someone is gay, and if she had been out, someone might say "geez, sally ride is gay, and look at what kind of women she is, my god, she isn't the devil incarnate, she isn't trying to convert my daughter to being dyke, etc (it is why the religious right in the US have lost the war over gays, once people above a certain age start dying out, it is going to be a different world, because to people now in the 30's and younger, it isn't a big deal, they know gay people or know of them..whereas older generations, especially those in their 50's and beyond, often don't know anyone who is gay and maintain the old beliefs and such (put it this way, younger evangelical christians, unlike their parents, are a lot more willing to see gays protected by rights laws and a surprising percentage of them have no problem with legal recognition of same sex marriage, even if they believe their faith doesn't support it). The more who come out, the less chance their is to demonize gays as sexual perverts, promiscuous predators, etc.
EMPRESSLAINIE
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I mourn her passing. But I think her sexual orientation and relationships were her business and no one else's. Just like my own (well except on here!).
There is always someone who will rail at us people who live stealth like me for not "fighting the fight," or "bearing the standard."
Well I had enough suffering when I was openly trans; due to the institutionalized hatred of the Mormon Church - being fired for being trans from a job I held for 22 years. Then at the Fed EEOC my suit against the City for sexual discrimination in firing me was quashed on the 3rd level by another Mormon transhater.
So from that day, even my employers including the Dept of Commerce twice for the Census, never knew of my previous life as a socalled "man." Or anyone else for that matter, unless I choose to tell them. I have only been read twice in five years, one from another transperson.
There is always someone who will rail at us people who live stealth like me for not "fighting the fight," or "bearing the standard."
Well I had enough suffering when I was openly trans; due to the institutionalized hatred of the Mormon Church - being fired for being trans from a job I held for 22 years. Then at the Fed EEOC my suit against the City for sexual discrimination in firing me was quashed on the 3rd level by another Mormon transhater.
So from that day, even my employers including the Dept of Commerce twice for the Census, never knew of my previous life as a socalled "man." Or anyone else for that matter, unless I choose to tell them. I have only been read twice in five years, one from another transperson.
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EMPRESSLAINIE
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Hatred and Discrimantion stikes again
I never revealed to my old company or to the company that bought them in March that I was trans. But stupidly on the police report request listed my old male name.
I now learn that the regional supervisor has told the manager and people I work with at the new store I went to in June, that I was not a real woman, or something.
He came in before I got off work Friday morning, and said he had to talk to me.
That I had to be transferred to another store because the store management had been complaining about me for a month. Since I never met the managers, any of them, or had any controversy of any kind there, it can only be based on what he said.
Trans is a medical condition and under HIPPA the federal law, medical information may not be shared without consent of the person. I think they violated that.
Both my company and the store management have now violated federal EEOC law and the new state law banning discrimination on transexuals.
If they fire me because I make an issue of it, the EEOC in this city is riddled with Mormon trans-haters, and they killed my suit against the City for firing me because I was trans at my transition from a teaching job I held for 22 yrs.
I never revealed to my old company or to the company that bought them in March that I was trans. But stupidly on the police report request listed my old male name.
I now learn that the regional supervisor has told the manager and people I work with at the new store I went to in June, that I was not a real woman, or something.
He came in before I got off work Friday morning, and said he had to talk to me.
That I had to be transferred to another store because the store management had been complaining about me for a month. Since I never met the managers, any of them, or had any controversy of any kind there, it can only be based on what he said.
Trans is a medical condition and under HIPPA the federal law, medical information may not be shared without consent of the person. I think they violated that.
Both my company and the store management have now violated federal EEOC law and the new state law banning discrimination on transexuals.
If they fire me because I make an issue of it, the EEOC in this city is riddled with Mormon trans-haters, and they killed my suit against the City for firing me because I was trans at my transition from a teaching job I held for 22 yrs.
Etoile
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Did you mean to post this in its own thread? I can split it off if you want.
