Panic

[sweetnpetite]

I've read more than one thread about writers who've worked on a story/novel or whatever and right near the end decide it's unworkable and wonder if they should just 'dump' it. Or for no particular reason they feel like tossing it off into the void. These are not stories that they are currently stuck on, sometimes they are even *finished* at least first draft wise.

Despite the lack of attachement or strong emotion attached to this act, I still believe that the reason behind this is- Panic.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and the topic came up of 'dropping out' of a project (or gaol) right before completion. Suddenly it just doesn't seem important or pressing enough, the 'crisis' period is over, the struggle has been won, we are right down to the easy part. All we have to do is sail in over the finish line- but we don't.

I wonder about this phenomenon. I wonder what makes us panic when the hard part is done. What lets us waist our hardearned efforts in this manner. What *fear of success* lurks to steal our glory at the last minute.

Any thoughts?

ps- if you feel 'storycidal' set it aside for a while. never destroy it! never never never!

 

[rgraham666]

In my case, I was taught most carefully that I couldn't succeed.

Rules changed, goals changed, norms changed, all at the whim of the people I was supposed to impress, please or simply placate.

After a while, I stopped trying. I don't like wasting my time and trying to do things for other people was a waste of time.

It's a habit I'm still trying to get over.

 

[Op_Cit]

With very many competitions, deciding not to continue is not necessarily a bad thing. The journey along the way is what provides the most value. The little token at the end that you may or may not get is, in reality, meaningless.

For one, there's always a bigger competition that you haven't won: so you're school champ, what about district? Won the state champ, what about national? You've won the most bestist of Literotica, what does the NYT best seller or the Pulitzer winner think of that?

The glorification of those who "press to finish" seems to be just the propaganda needed to get more people to sign up for the race. (...and the more people in the race the more "legitimate" the feeling of grandness for the winner of the Smallville hot dog eating competition).

I think anybody continuing to learn/improve is better than anybody on the backslide of "been there, done that, got the shiny gold medal". And if you need that material/token reward to work to be better, how are you any different from a circus animal?

 

[sweetnpetite]

With very many competitions, deciding not to continue is not necessarily a bad thing. The journey along the way is what provides the most value. The little token at the end that you may or may not get is, in reality, meaningless.

For one, there's always a bigger competition that you haven't won: so you're school champ, what about district? Won the state champ, what about national? You've won the most bestist of Literotica, what does the NYT best seller or the Pulitzer winner think of that?

The glorification of those who "press to finish" seems to be just the propaganda needed to get more people to sign up for the race. (...and the more people in the race the more "legitimate" the feeling of grandness for the winner of the Smallville hot dog eating competition).

I think anybody continuing to learn/improve is better than anybody on the backslide of "been there, done that, got the shiny gold medal". And if you need that material/token reward to work to be better, how are you any different from a circus animal?

sorry, but that sounds like a cop-out to me.

continuing to learn and improve is great- but it is of no value if you don't have anything to show for it. What- I'm a great writer, but I don't have any stories because they are all half-done? Sorry, no.

Learing and improving *is* about crossing the finish line. It has nothing to do with glory, recognition or circus animals.

what good is it to have the most beautiful singing voice in all the world if no one ever hears it? Just so you can feel superior because you've never had to test it out against the real world, or bear any scrutiny or risk sucees or failer? No- there's no sence in learning to write a better story unless you end up with some stories- good, bad and everything in between.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I've read more than one thread about writers who've worked on a story/novel or whatever and right near the end decide it's unworkable and wonder if they should just 'dump' it. Or for no particular reason they feel like tossing it off into the void. These are not stories that they are currently stuck on, sometimes they are even *finished* at least first draft wise.

Despite the lack of attachement or strong emotion attached to this act, I still believe that the reason behind this is- Panic.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and the topic came up of 'dropping out' of a project (or gaol) right before completion. Suddenly it just doesn't seem important or pressing enough, the 'crisis' period is over, the struggle has been won, we are right down to the easy part. All we have to do is sail in over the finish line- but we don't.

I wonder about this phenomenon. I wonder what makes us panic when the hard part is done. What lets us waist our hardearned efforts in this manner. What *fear of success* lurks to steal our glory at the last minute.

Any thoughts?

ps- if you feel 'storycidal' set it aside for a while. never destroy it! never never never!

Panic?

No. I don't think that has anything to do with it, at least not in my experience. Generally speaking, when i toss a story like you mentioned, it's because I wrote it out before genuinely evaluating the idea itself. When I was done, I looked backa and saw that what I initially thought to be one thing was actually another, then tossed it simply because either: A) I don't think it's worth bothering with further, whether that be a rewrite, or bubmitting it somewhere. or B) I liked the idea better when it was a simple idea, or an idea that was represented better than what I'd written.

I've found that, unless I lower my guard to it, panic isn't generally a part of my life. It doesn't hit me like I've noticed it hitting others. This tends to apply to my life as a whole, not one part or another. I'm not referring to this as strength, but rather the opposite. The more powerful emotions tend to be lost on me somehow. I don't know if I've simply become more of an observer, or if those emotions have become locked away because of the potential they have for harm, if I'm over-controlling or if I think they will control me, but often enough, in situations where many might become panicky, I tend to stay calm, to try and do what needs done. I've never found myself frozen, unless I tried too hard to "think" my way through things, or been scared of the outcome of a particular situation. When it comes to writing, it tends to be the same.

*shrug*

Read into that as you will.

Q_C

 

[Quiet_Cool]

sorry, but that sounds like a cop-out to me.

continuing to learn and improve is great- but it is of no value if you don't have anything to show for it. What- I'm a great writer, but I don't have any stories because they are all half-done? Sorry, no.

Learing and improving *is* about crossing the finish line. It has nothing to do with glory, recognition or circus animals.

what good is it to have the most beautiful singing voice in all the world if no one ever hears it? Just so you can feel superior because you've never had to test it out against the real world, or bear any scrutiny or risk sucees or failer? No- there's no sence in learning to write a better story unless you end up with some stories- good, bad and everything in between.

False.

Entirely false.

Basically, in the context that this is stated in, both things (good writing, and the best singing voice) are things that aren't simply decided. If you win every race you ever run in, and race against every competitor in the world, you just might be the world's fastest runner, but who's to say that one voice or writing style is better than another? Can Rod Stewart "outsing" Nathan Morris? And who's got the right to make said judgment?

None of us. Not you, me, Op_Cit or anyone else in the entire world.

ANd learning and improving, in areas like this... There's no finish line, no matter how many awards or contests you win. The finish line is the end, but there's no end to it. When each of us passes on, there'll still be things we can do to improve that we didn't do, and had we lived another day, we might have learned some of them, or another year, or even a century, even more of them. But eventually, we'd run out of time. There'll always be something we could have done, or could have learned to do better...

Op_Cit's right. Life's a journey (yep, taken right from the Aerosmith quote I left on the "favorite lyrics" thread ). Pick things up along the way, and stop worrying about winning. You can't take it with you, and the work, not the awards and ribbons, are what you truly leave behind.

Q_C

 

[sweetnpetite]

Panic?

No. I don't think that has anything to do with it, at least not in my experience. Generally speaking, when i toss a story like you mentioned, it's because I wrote it out before genuinely evaluating the idea itself. When I was done, I looked backa and saw that what I initially thought to be one thing was actually another, then tossed it simply because either: A) I don't think it's worth bothering with further, whether that be a rewrite, or bubmitting it somewhere. or B) I liked the idea better when it was a simple idea, or an idea that was represented better than what I'd written.

I've found that, unless I lower my guard to it, panic isn't generally a part of my life. It doesn't hit me like I've noticed it hitting others. This tends to apply to my life as a whole, not one part or another. I'm not referring to this as strength, but rather the opposite. The more powerful emotions tend to be lost on me somehow. I don't know if I've simply become more of an observer, or if those emotions have become locked away because of the potential they have for harm, if I'm over-controlling or if I think they will control me, but often enough, in situations where many might become panicky, I tend to stay calm, to try and do what needs done. I've never found myself frozen, unless I tried too hard to "think" my way through things, or been scared of the outcome of a particular situation. When it comes to writing, it tends to be the same.

*shrug*

Read into that as you will.

Q_C

I've never experienced it as feeling like panic. Or recognized if for that until I was talking to another friend about why we sometimes abandon things when we are so close to completing them.

Believe me, I think that it comes down to being able to lie to yourself about your potential, rather than having to face your actual capabilies. We overestemate ourselves, but we underestemate ourselves too. Some of us do it more than others, some less.

I didn't mean to say that we would experience traditional recognizable signs of panic, rather that it was more of a subconcious panic. You don't have to agree, but it was brought up more as something to consider than anything else. Your b.) answer very closely expresses what I was trying to express. To wit: "B) I liked the idea better when it was a simple idea, or an idea that was represented better than what I'd written. "

I myself am not prone to strong feelings of panic or stress or the like. I always thought I was a calm, relaxed person. It takes a lot to get me upset- or so I thought. However, I've come to realize that I have some problems with stress even though I don't often *feel stressed*. Personally, I think my not feeling (, experiencing, recognizing) the stress/anger/panic is a big part of the problem- for me anyway. I'm not saying that the same is for everyone, merely suggesting that everyone examine the possiblity. (Yeah, I'm a naval contemplator- I don't think one can have too much self-examination)

 

[sweetnpetite]

False.

Can Rod Stewart "outsing" Nathan Morris? And who's got the right to make said judgment?


ANd learning and improving, in areas like this... There's no finish line, no matter how many awards or contests you win. The finish line is the end, but there's no end to it. When each of us passes on, there'll still be things we can do to improve that we didn't do, and had we lived another day, we might have learned some of them, or another year, or even a century, even more of them. But eventually, we'd run out of time. There'll always be something we could have done, or could have learned to do better...

You can't 'outlove' or 'outcare' either, but it's not enough to know that you have a good heart if you never actually *do* something about it. Or if you start to build a house for a homeless family and stop before you put the roof on. There will always be more people to care about, more folks to help, more projects that you could have done or wanted to do.

On the subject of writing (and pretty much everything) there *is* a finish line. The finish line is the goal for the project. No matter which way you slice it, leaving a story unfinished is *not* crossing the finish line, not finishing the project. Destroying it, even less so. I've even heard people say that they've destroyed there mss after typing the last word. IMO- that is an impulse one should fight with every fiber of their being.

Now, I'm not saying that it makes someone a failure, or that it's not ok to have unfinished stories laying around. I think that's perfectly fine. But when it comes to destroying something, obliterating it just to get it out of the way- to me that's panic. You've done something irreversable needlessly, there is something deeper at work.

IF you truly feel it has helped you grow, why wouldn't you keep it to document your growth? IF you destroy it instead- how will you later know that you've grown again? Without anything to measure it against, you really can't. I'm not saying every piece needs to be published, far from it. Although sometimes that may come into play too, if you're original goal was publishing and now you're sheltering your little darling from the harsh light of the publishers desk.

You can love something too much. People sometimes compare writing a book to having a baby. Well I say that destroying something you've poured yourself into and dedicated yourself to (I'm not talking about the stuff you scribbled out because you were bored and stuff like that), that's sort of like killing your kids the day before they start or finish school, so they never have to be judged by other people in the real world. It's too much love. Trust me, when my son started bringing home 'letter grades' on his report card, I felt-- well, it was indescribable, but it was frightening. Someone who didn't love and understand my baby the way I did was going to be making judgements and those judgements *matter.* Weather we want to admit it or not, the judgements others make on our stories or novles or poems- especially the ones we've dedicated ourselves too- *matter* too.

Op_Cit's right. Life's a journey (yep, taken right from the Aerosmith quote I left on the "favorite lyrics" thread ). Pick things up along the way, and stop worrying about winning. You can't take it with you, and the work, not the awards and ribbons, are what you truly leave behind.

Q_C

Yes. But if a large part of that work is unfinished or destroyed- you really haven't left anything behind, have you?

Emily Dickenson never published anything while she was alive. Her postumous fame really hasn't done her much good, however- imagine if she had burned her poems one by one after completing them. We wouldn't even know who she was. What she would have left behind would have amounted to zero.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Psychological profile tests often clump you into one of two types: detail oriented or big-picture oriented. Some people really enjoy seeing to the final details, making sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed. Other people like to deal with the big issue in the center and leave the niggling stuff to someone esle.

Most of us are probably somewhere in the middle, though we tend towards one or the other. I tend to be big-picture, and find detail work annoying. I'm not so bad with stories, but with home projects I'm terrible. I'll replace a window and leave the trim off for months, or replace a faucet and never put my tools away. It's like, once the central problem is licked, I lose interest. It's time to go on to something else.

Stories are something else. They're so complicated and the so much can happen during the writing that it's tough to generalize. I've turned my back on stories that just didn't work out the way I wanted, or failed to hold my interest, or just got too hard and involved.

There's another side to this too, for me at least. Sometimes I get so sick of a story that I publish the damned thing before it's ready and the hell with it. I've done this in the past, and I'm afraid I just did it again too. I just posted a story that was very hard for me to write, and by the time I finally forced out the last few words, I was just too exhausted and sick of looking at it to proof it anymore. So now it's up with a big, glaring gaffe right there in the first line. It's not like suicide. More like walking on stage with your fly wide open.

 

[silverwhisper]

i have that problem but never when a project is underway. i abandon them for a time b/c i don't believe i'm ready to continue that project at that time in my life perhaps (a novel i was working on requires a lot of research i haven't done yet), so i just switch to something else. i usually have a few things going at the same time.

ed

 

[Quiet_Cool]

You can't 'outlove' or 'outcare' either, but it's not enough... dedicated ourselves too- *matter* too.

Okay, but I think we're both agreeing while disagreeing. My point is that, eventhough many of us write with the intent of publishing, that isn't necessarily the "destiny" of said story; more importantly, that's not necessarily, and I think never is, what its purpose is. In my experience, my best writing happens when I get out of the way, stop thinking, and let it happen. it comes from somewhere inside that doesn't breathe well when I try to help it. It doesn't need my help, and it doesn't answer to my reservations. A lot of the time, I learn things about myself by writing, and the point to anything i write isn't whether or not I get it published, or whether or not I write what I intended to write, but whether or not I write what I needed to write, what that part of me has been waiting to release.

What I'm above is this: The story isn't written for publication, or for the viewing or enjoyment of others. Yes, those things matter to us, but after-the-fact and outside fo the actual writing. It's written because there's something you need to learn about yourself, something you need to express about yourself, or about your views on the world, or any other million and a half things. It might just be to vent some feeling. But it's main purpose is to the writer, not to winning awards or getting published or drawing feedback, or getting a "5 vote" (though those 5 votes can bring a smile to our faces, along with everything else here, can't they?). The story serves a purpose to the writer. We need to stop visualizing ourselves as people who constantly give; we're selfish and arrogant, just like the rest of the world.

I'm not here to prove myself, or to compete with anyone else, and maybe I'm different than most in the world in that. I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm writing, for me, and if the world likes what i do, then that's okay too.

Oversimplified, but I think I made my point better this time.

As for the "destiny" of any given story, I don't think the story matters at all, it's what I gain from it, and what I have to do to get to the point. Sometimes, I start to write and what comes out isn't what should, or what needs to, or something that's ready to. Therefore, the story is obsolete, but it's purpose remains. The story goes unfinished, but perhaps it's simply the first version of something that will later be. Case in point, the idea I had for the MIA challenge (yes, still unfinished ) was actually started and finished back in high school, then scrapped. I still have the piece, but it's pretty much useless. It wasn't ready, and the idea, or the purpose the story was there to achieve wasn't fulfilled. The story can be scrapped, since it's merely the vehicle for the creative process, the process of release from within and personal change.

The story's just words on paper, a false version of reality, in which I create something that helps me learn more about myself. Again, a selfish thing that I over-indulge in (though not necessarily in a bad way). The issue of when something has been finished or a goal has been met, to me, is more "Have I expressed/learned/whatever what I needed to?" Not is it in print, or has it won an award or even been finished.

Yes. But if a large part of that work is unfinished or destroyed- you really haven't left anything behind, have you?

Emily Dickenson never published anything while she was alive. Her postumous fame really hasn't done her much good, however- imagine if she had burned her poems one by one after completing them. We wouldn't even know who she was. What she would have left behind would have amounted to zero.

If I've written it, the practice alone has made it worth the time. The thing is, even if I throw it away, it'll affect the value, selfish and otherwise, of future works. Learning to grow, practice makes perfect, however you want to word it, everything you write, finished or not, junked or not has some value.

As for what Dickenson's work amounted to... If I'd never posted here, and never publish elsewhere, my writing has changed me, and will continue to. It means a lot to me. If no one gets to expeience it, sobeit. Again, its primary purpose is for me. Everything else is bonus material.

Q_C