Pandering

[KillerMuffin]

One wonders. My stuff is steadily dropping, I had 6 stories above 4.50, now there are none. I'm about to leave the 4.00 range with a couple of them. Mickie insinuated that those of us who are caustic on the board are only getting what's coming to us.

So, should I change who I am to pander for votes so that someday I might win a contest? Or should I remain as I am and watch my stuff steadily plummet, should that be the reason my scores are rapidly falling. I first thought it was because I deserved it, but every day everything I have drops pretty quickly. Even deeply archived things. Pastorale is sitting on page 17 of the EC cat, whose going to find it there? Enough people to raise it's vote totals by 40+ votes and drop it's rating by .25 points?

I've just figured out that I'm not ever going to win another literotica contest again. My stuff just didn't cut the mustard, I suppose. It's kind of depressing actually. But the alternative is to pander to the board and general public by turning into one of those people everyone adores. Becoming something I'm not just so people will like me and quit down voting me. To win a contest.

Hmm. It's not going to happen.

There is nothing to be done about the voting, so this is just me lamenting my fate. Reflecting on how I seem to have garnered an enemy.

Of course, there is always the question that perhaps the enemy isn't of the authors, but of the site? Three authors have already left, promising never to return because of the voting. One has indicated that she might even yank her stories. What happens to lit if discouraged authors quit writing?

Don't mean to open another can of worms there Laurel, and get on yours and Manu's case regarding the voting. I recognize that you are doing the best you can with a situation that just can't be remedied without doing away with it. The fact is that it still hurts, it's still very discouraging, and it gives rise to constant self-doubt. What if it's not some anonymous troll. What if I really do suck? Why should I continue to write for the public if I suck so badly?

I can't pander, and what's worse is that I don't even know if that's what the problem is. I'm not that vain. Despite the logic that it's a troll, I still get the nasty feelings that my writing is actually awful and I should quit while I'm ahead.

*sigh*

Off to write.

 

[nitengale]

votes or no votes...

If you stop believing in your abilities as a writer, then what's the sense of writing?

Did Hemingway get votes anywhere?

 

[Ulyssa]

There is nothing to be done about the voting, so this is just me lamenting my fate. Reflecting on how I seem to have garnered an enemy.

Of course, there is always the question that perhaps the enemy isn't of the authors, but of the site? Three authors have already left, promising never to return because of the voting. One has indicated that she might even yank her stories. What happens to lit if discouraged authors quit writing?

I can't pander, and what's worse is that I don't even know if that's what the problem is. I'm not that vain. Despite the logic that it's a troll, I still get the nasty feelings that my writing is actually awful and I should quit while I'm ahead.

*sigh*

Off to write.

Attagirl! No matter what happens, those of us who've been cursed with life sentences as writers know that tomorrow we'll sneak in a paragraph here or there because it has to be done. Just one more sentence. Just one more page. Just one more story. Just one more chapter in one more novel.

Think of the trolls and their votes as living examples of form letter rejection letters whom happen to have mealy mouths and a tendency to miss the urinal when they pee.

The voting doesn't matter. Only the writing counts.

 

[Sonia_de_Beaumanoir]

avoiding reprisal

I've come to the conclusion that one should have two different user names, one as an author and one as a BB poster. Then you can be as forthright as you want on the board without fear of voting reprisal.

 

[Ulyssa]

Sonia, it doesn't matter.

I brought two stories to lit because my old site where I posted had gotten into the habit of posting a lot of stories each month, where they'd been posting a few stories each week. I got tired of waiting, so I offered my two newest stories to Laurel.

I was posted as an author long before I came to the BB's (as a virgin--you know how that cracks you up when it happens).

The stories appear to have been 1'd because they were there. You don't necessarily have to piss anybody off--the one beast must strike even if it doesn't know you.

The revelationists would just have them vote 666 and make the voting read like golf scores.

 

[CreamyLady]

Okay. I'm going to chime in here with my Burning Questions:

Just when in the hell did writing become a competitive sport? When is winning a fucking prize worth pruning one's mind and spirit by eliminating or changing a single word?

KM, you are a damned good writer, and your writing reflects ALL of you, including the caustic-tongued terrorist of the board. If people can't take it, and want to be petty, you can't stop them.

Your own truth -- no one else's -- comes through your words. Ignore the contest, just tell the truth in both your writing and your board posting. Childish retaliation is not even a speedbump in the road of life, nor even a pothole.

It's just childish, and while it might be nice to administer a solid time-out and removal of privileges, it isn't going to happen. Consider the source, and keep on writing.

 

[Mickie]

Quote_________________
Mickie insinuated that those of us who are caustic on the board are only getting what's coming to us.
_________

KM -- I didn't insinuate any such thing. Coming to you? Humph. I said, quite clearly, that if you represent yourself as a caustic individual on the boards, you should expect reprisal. That's all. I never said anything about what you should or shouldn't get for it. You KNOW there are idiots out there, and yet you actively ask them to hurt you with some of your posts. Of COURSE they're going to act in childish and insulting ways. The very definition of troll is that they're childish.

Pandering to them by not engaging with them? All right, so I'm pandering. My writing matters more to me than a few minutes elation from telling one of them what I think. If you want to play with them, then you'll follow their rules. If you refuse to play, then you follow your own rules. Who the hell is pandering? Go ahead, let them lead you by the nose until all you can do is scream when they downvote you.

I don't hide my personality here. I just choose when and where to put it, and what parts to reveal. It isn't about safety, it's about priorities. Mine are with my writing, not about winning battles of wit with people who have no ammunition. However, I may get into the mood to do battle some day. Who knows? It really is a matter of choice, but you have to accept the consequences of your own words. If I do battle, I expect to come out of it with scars.

Mickie

 

[cymbidia]

After sitting comfortably in the top 50 on the BDSM Top List for a couple months, all five of my stories disappeared from sight on one day. One day.

I'm not going into all the pros and cons and not going to poke at anyone, especially Laurel and Manu. I'm tried of looking at the scores. Tired isn't the word i need here. I'm weary.

All this fuss and bother over the scores has made me deeply weary.

I wish we lived in world where everything was fair all the time and the really deserving stories rose to the top of the lists on gentle streams of 5's while the needs-more-work stories settled out wherever they belonged. It's not like that, though, a thing we all know.

Here's the latest thread on this, guys. It's just a few days old. Why do we feel compelled to beat ourselves up endlessly around this subject? http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=31805

I like the idea of a non-rated zone, a spot within Lit where a good summary about each story is offered. I *really* like the idea of posting reader feedback, even if anonymous, instead of ratings, like they do at Amazon. (Amazon has that star system but i tend to pay FAR more attention to the reader feedback than the stars.)

Mostly, i'm just really tired of this conversation. It doesn't even matter much to me anymore, i guess, since my stuff is buried now anyway.

 

[KillerMuffin]

One of the other things I wonder about is guilt by association. I know I have some enemies out there of some sort. Mickie, for one, is a fabulous writer. I wonder if his portion of the chainstory will suffer by link to mine.

 

[Mickie]

Guilt by association, huh? I'm sure there are some people out there who will vote badly on ALL chain story chapters, regardless of who writes them.

Do I CARE if someone votes them all down simply because one or three or five of the writers are outspoken people on the BB? No. I have chosen to be a part of a group of authors, and realized I wouldn't be able to pick and choose who they were. To tell the truth, I think you have talent, KM, and I'd rather have an outspoken wench who has talent for a co-author than a silent mouse who really shouldn't give up his/her day job.

And I do write some REALLY bad stuff once in a while. Some of it deserves to be voted into whatever hell awaits bad literature. But thanks for the vote of confidance, KM. It is nice to hear once in a while.

Mickie

 

[Mr_Neb]

I just don't get it. Why does it matter all that much. Someone said in another post that all she is trying to do is get some cock hards and some pussys (what is the plural for pussy?) wet with her writing. That's all the motivation that I need for writing, starting with my own cock.

Sure, I'd like my stories to score higher. Sure, when I try to be as objective as possible I feel that some of my stories are as good or better than those that remain very popular but it changes nothing when it come to if and why I write stuff. I post my stories on another board that has no voting, no contests, nothing.

No disrespect intended there KM but we've heard this before. Relax, have a glass of wine, put on some soft music, close your eyes, fantasize a bit, have an orgasm or two, write it down, post it. Have a nice day.

As far as pandering goes, I've though about it. It would be fun. Try to write a story expressly for the purpose of getting high votes. Hmmmm. Let's see. How about one about a woman maked love to her husband (Erotic Couplings/Loving Wives) who really wants to seduce her father (Incest)who is really an alien (Non-Human) but not before she is tied up and gang banged by a lesbian biker gang (Lesbian/Group Sex). I think I'll write it in Arabic (Non-English). What were all those categories again?

 

[peterpan]

Feedback more valuable than scores

I wish votes required feedback. If someone gave me a 1 vote but the best they could come up with was "U suk" I really wouldn't feel that insecure. I would only care if the respondant impressed me as someone that I wanted to impress, and in that case the reasons for a 1 vote could be more appreciated than simple praise (but both are fine )

Also, reading the comments could give you a good idea if you want to read the story.

ps: I was best equal in nonhuman for a while. Yay! I am not exactly sure what sort of distinction that is..

 

[cymbidia]

As far as pandering goes, I've though about it. It would be fun. Try to write a story expressly for the purpose of getting high votes. Hmmmm. Let's see. How about one about a woman maked love to her husband (Erotic Couplings/Loving Wives) who really wants to seduce her father (Incest)who is really an alien (Non-Human) but not before she is tied up and gang banged by a lesbian biker gang (Lesbian/Group Sex). I think I'll write it in Arabic (Non-English). What were all those categories again?

OHHHH! I want to try this!

Mine would be: At an ordinary red stop light in the middle of an otherwise unremarkable day, a gorgeous woman (aren't they all always gorgeous?) exposes her breasts to a motorist idling at the light in the car next to hers (Exhibitionist & Voyeur). He leaps out of his car and into hers, shoving her over and gagging her with a handy roll of tape, before racing off into the countryside with her (NonConsent). Upon reaching his house, she discovers he intends her to wear 8" platform heels ALL THE TIME, which he insure by locking her feet into them and then maturbating over her already-aching feet (Fetish). They have sex. Talking afterward, her feet assuming the shape they'll have forever and aching less, they discover they're actually brother and sister, twins really, and were parted as infants (Incest). (This last bit is my attempt at pandering...just so you know i didn't forget to do it.)

Well, that was fun! Anyone else?



(...muttering unkindly about people who don't know how to spell masturbation, forgodsakes, and then realizing that *i* misspelled it...oooops...)(OH! This isn't the Pet Peeves thread?)



[Edited by cymbidia on 05-17-2001 at 08:09 AM]

 

[Mr_Neb]

You're my kinda gal there cymbidia.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't check my votes that often, in fact I hadn't until I submitted a new story. The clifflike drops are shocking. You never quite realize how fragile you are until someone smacks you.

I apologize for so thoroughly inconveniencing you Mr. Neb. Gawd knows, I'm not human so I'm not supposed to feel frustrated. Shame on me.

 

[nitengale]

Stan the Man

There’s always the one about the guy with the 12 inch hard, no wait, blood engorged cock that is hanging out in the gym waiting to take a peek at the new guy Stan. (GAY) Stan is an executive from NYC, who is trying to get past a failed relationship with Peggy, a woman with incredible full and pink breast with nipples the size of walnuts. (Erotic couplings) It seems Peggy told him she is in love with Susie (Lesbian) and cannot live I a lie any longer. At first, he is angry, and confides this anger and hurt to his sister Rhonda, who deeply loves him, and helps him push the hurt out one night, and many nights after. (INCEST). Stan knows he has to leave the city in order to get Peg and Rhonda out of his thoughts for good.

He moves to the quiet town of XX, NJ, and gets a place in a rooming house run by Linda Leatherman, who he will discover has a fondness for ropes. (Bondage) He gets used to her “rough” play and together they have parties for others into ropes and “rough” play. (GROUP) Life is good for Stan. He is happy. He lives in a great place, has great sex, and finally a good job! He also loves his neighbor Gloria who tans in the buff in the backyard. He never fails to catch a glimpse of that Tan and well toned body as she glistens in the hot, hot sun! (Voyeur) Her roommate Cassandra is hot too, and Stan meets her one-day in the laundry room, and they take a spin together on the dryer. He marvels at the contrast her mocha colored skin has against his pale pink skin. (Interracial) “Cassy”, as he calls her sells lingerie and toys as a hobby, and Stan loves to try out all the new things, even the silky panties. (TOYS and FETISH) Stan is quite the man! He is one hot stud.

Back in the gym, Stan is taking a shower and he notices Bob staring at him. Stan is curious, so he drops his soap. He feels Bob come up behind him, and soon enjoys the sensation of Bob rubbing his blood-engorged cock on his back. He turns to face him, and notices Bob has two slits on both sides of his neck (NON-human) Things seem grim, but we learn that Bob and Stan eventually move in together and find happiness as a modern day couple. Their relationship is filled with love, good sex, and many (ROMANTIC) events that keep them both happy, for years to come.

 

[Mr_Neb]

Oh geeze...

 

[nitengale]

Oh geeze...

too overwhelming, or would this fit nicely with all the other "How is that getting votes" stories?

 

[cymbidia]

Hello. I just got done reading your new story and i think you did a good enough job but it needs more sex. Also don't you think you maybe should make ONEof the gals older? Do you not like older women or something? What's with you? Older women like sex too and give good head. You ought to put that in your stories. I gave you a 4 anyway cuz i like that you didn't do too much talking and just concentrated on the sex. You put some older women in there, and maybe toss Jamie Lee Curtis in there too, and i'll give you a 5 for sure!

Signed,
A Reader

 

[CookieMonster]

Just think of Mozart and Van Gogh

KillerMuffin wrote:
...I've just figured out that I'm not ever going to win another literotica contest again. ... The fact is that it still hurts, it's still very discouraging, and it gives rise to constant self-doubt.

I guess one has to ask what the primary motivation behind one's writing is. If the goal is to garner high ratings and win prizes, the rational thing to do would be to write for the fattest part of the curve. If the goal is to express one's own creativity as best one can, then the ratings are in some sense moot.

Keep in mind, though, that neither Mozart nor Van Gogh were appreciated in their time. Mozart was buried in a pauper's grave. Ratings from the hoi polloi don't necessarily correlate with the "goodness" of one's work.

CookieMonster

 

[nitengale]

Hello. I just got done reading your new story and i think you did a good enough job but it needs more sex. Also don't you think you maybe should make ONEof the gals older? Do you not like older women or something? What's with you? Older women like sex too and give good head. You ought to put that in your stories. I gave you a 4 anyway cuz i like that you didn't do too much talking and just concentrated on the sex. You put some older women in there, and maybe toss Jamie Lee Curtis in there too, and i'll give you a 5 for sure!

Signed,
A Reader

Dear Reader,

Mere words cannot express my sincerest thanks for the feedback! It's RARE to hear from folks these days. More sex? Hmmmmm, that does offer many possibilities. I'll have to really think about that. I'm new to sex writing myself, so I rely on my Uncle Bob's penthouse magazines for ideas. I'll see what I can find. If there is nothing there, I'll ask Uncle Bob to help. Although last time I did, he spanked me, and then there was no time to write after that.

Older woman. Sure they are OK. My Aunt Bernice and I spend time together, lot of time. She likes to shop and is always buying me new things, especially panties. She loves when I model them for her. She has never said anything about "giving head" though. I'll ask Uncle Bob. Our neighbor Stella is 66 and she is always asking me to help her around the house. I don't mind, but she insists I wear those cute maid outfits and insists I slide down the banister to polish it. Weird huh? I can ask Stella is she will share sex stuff with me and then I can include it in my stories.

As for the guy scenes, my cousin Vinny told me to put that in there. He says a good golden shower scene always gets the reader's attention. I haven't decided how to incorporate the golden aspect of it...the shower heads maybe? I dunno.

Anyway, thanks for vote! Bet I get a 5 next time.

me

 

[Mickie]

Well said, Cookiemonster.

 

[JUDO]

Writing for Scores

Creating a story for the succinct purpose of scoring well probably goes against what we think should happen.

Stories that include every Lit category would probably be just another episode of "All My Children" or something.

I feel that your best stories are the ones who are created from the inspiration that turns us on.

Just last night, a friend of mine and I went to a local grocery store around 10 in the evening. As we walked in, there was an oriental woman with what I have always heard described as a 'nine-year-old-boy's butt'. Not something I'm usually attracted to, but on her, it was provocative.

On the heels of the first thought, I could hear Groucho Marx yelling in my subconcious, "Quick! Run out and get me a nine-year-old-boy!"

Hmmm, maybe I have the beginnings of my first humorous story: 'Drooling lesbian spends three-hours buying a toothbrush.'

- Judo

 

[NCmVoyeur]

I can't pander, and what's worse is that I don't even know if that's what the problem is. I'm not that vain. Despite the logic that it's a troll, I still get the nasty feelings that my writing is actually awful and I should quit while I'm ahead.

KM, I gave your "Coming Home" series about as glowing a testimonial as I can muster, so chill. I'm sure it's the case that you've gotten high marks from the other writers here. That ought to tell you enough.

Personally, while of course I wish my own stuff had higher voter tallies, I've taken solace from some wonderful comments from a few select writers here whose work I greatly admire. And, while I've not posted a whole lot, my postings are 'honest' and generally thought-out, and I hope that's appreciated by those whose work I critique. If that costs me votes on my own stuff, so be it.

Your comment calls to mind Teddy Roosevelt's observations, which sums up some of my feelings on writing and submitting here:

"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

Take it to heart.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Ultimately, pandering doesn't work, if it actually feels like "pandering" because your heart (and body) are no longer in it. It's the truth of a story that reaches people, even when it's fiction. The emotional and physical/mental process that goes into a story or poem reaches people. Sometimes, those people don't "get you," but at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you told the truth of the story, you took it to the place it was meant to go.

But, it's unrealistic to think that you'll please everyone, or even most. That's why it's so essential to please yourself with what you do. Criticism is hard. What feels like random attack is often even harder, because it feels so mean spirited and petty. But, it's just a number. It's not "reality", in any sense.