Pagan White Supremacists?

Joe Wordsworth

Logician
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Posts
4,085
Paganism Gaining Popularity in Prison


Sunday July 23, 2006 7:46 PM

By KRISTEN GELINEAU

Associated Press Writer

STAUNTON, Va. (AP) - A pagan religion that some experts say can be interpreted as encouraging violence is gaining popularity among prison inmates, one of whom is scheduled to be executed this week for killing a fellow prisoner at the foot of an altar.

Michael Lenz is scheduled to die Thursday for the death of Brent Parker, who was stabbed dozens of times at Augusta Correctional Center during a gathering of inmates devoted to Asatru, whose followers worship Norse gods. At his trial, Lenz testified that Parker had not been taking the religion seriously and had to die to protect the honor of the gods.

Other followers call the religion misunderstood and say most adherent inmates do not use it to further violent agendas.

Asatru has been gaining popularity among inmates, say religious leaders and prison experts who believe its roots in Viking mythology attract prisoners seeking power, protection and unity.

The gang culture in prison also contributes, said theologian Britt Minshall, a former police officer and Baltimore pastor who ministers to inmates. Some white inmates who felt threatened by black prison gangs formed their own gangs and sought out a belief system they felt would provide additional security, he said.

``It's a way of grouping together for safety,'' he said. ``And you have to have a god in the middle of that to really keep you safe.''

Asatru is often referred to as Odinism, although some followers believe the two are separate religions. It is a polytheistic, pre-Christian faith native to Scandinavia whose adherents worship gods including Thor and Odin.

It emphasizes a connection with one's ancestors and values honor, loyalty, generosity and truth.

An estimated 10,000 to 20,000 people in the United States consider themselves Asatruars or Odinists, said Stephen McNallen, director of the Asatru Folk Assembly, a leading Asatru group.

No national statistics are kept on how many inmates follow Asatru. But experts say its popularity enjoyed a boost from the Supreme Court, which last year sided with an Asatru inmate by upholding a federal law requiring state prisons to accommodate prisoners' religious affiliations.

Asatru is often associated with white supremacy, although most Asatru leaders bristle at suggestions of such a relationship.

A 1999 FBI report on domestic terrorism described Odinism as a ``white supremacist ideology that lends itself to violence.''

``What makes Odinists dangerous is the fact that many believe in the necessity of becoming martyrs for their cause,'' the report said.

Such comments are typical of those who don't understand Asatru, said Jane Ruck, who runs the National Prison Kindred Alliance and ministers to Asatru inmates. White supremacists make up only a small portion of Asatruars, and most inmates who follow the religion do not use it to push hate-filled, violent agendas, she said.

``There might be some white supremacists who consider themselves Asatruars, but they're not (Asatruars) because they're not following our beliefs,'' Ruck said. ``We don't hate anybody; we just want to take pride in our heritage.''

Lenz and another inmate, fellow Asatruar Jeffrey Remington, stabbed Parker a combined 68 times with makeshift knives. Remington was also sentenced to death but committed suicide in 2004.

According to Art Jipson, who studies white racial extremism and directs the University of Dayton's criminal justice studies program, Lenz's belief that fatal force was warranted is not surprising.

``If he believes the fight was necessary, whether or not it was legal is the least of his concerns,'' Jipson said. ``If he's a truly devout practicing Odinist or Asatruist, he's doing what he must do. And it would be a shame - it would be a black mark on his soul, his spirit ... for him to be cowardly and not to fight.''

That kind of warrior mentality can exacerbate the tense environment behind bars, said Mark Potok, a leader at the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which monitors hate groups.

``It's a theology that celebrates raw physical power and domination, and that is why I think it is so popular among prison inmates,'' Potok said. ``The kind of inmate who might be attracted to this is a white man who is looking for justification for extreme violence, who is looking for an ideology which explains why he should be the boss.''
 
Faulty Logic in action, once again!

This is rather like judging Christianity by pointing a finger at the Crusades, the inquisition, and just about any other instances where the Chrisitians enslaved, brutalized or otherwise killed off non-Christians in the name of Jesus.

From this evidence, one would assume that Christianity encourages violence and white supremacy :rolleyes:

And, oddly, I don't see them condemning any other religion that violent prisoners practice. So, every bible reader in prision is peaceful? Every Islamic and Jew? Hello. they're in PRISON! Might we not be getting confused on just what is the cause of them being violent? Like...maybe they were already violent before they came in? Like, maybe prison encourages violence?

And, hello, violent people who want to be violent will find justification. I imagine a Buddist could find in the teaching of Buddah it if he really wanted to throw a punch.

Unless the "Bible" of any religion says, "Be a brutal, violent warrior, kill infidels and people of color for they are evil," then there's no arguing that a religion promotes violence. It might not promote pacifism, but that hardly makes it a "white supremacist ideology that lends itself to violence." All that can be argued is that certain religious texts and beliefs may be easier than, say, Buddism, for followers to use as a justification for white supremacy and violence.
 
3113 said:
Faulty Logic in action, once again!

This is rather like judging Christianity by pointing a finger at the Crusades, the inquisition, and just about any other instances where the Chrisitians enslaved, brutalized or otherwise killed off non-Christians in the name of Jesus.
That's almost an Olympic Sport of common occurance, really.
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
That's almost an Olympic Sport of common occurance, really.
Only because so many Christians and Christian churches have made it an Olympic sport to badmouth other religions--and still do when they get the chance. Remember the brouhaha so many fundamentalists made over "Christmas" and people saying 'Happy Holidays" instead of Christmas? There comes a point where if one side if fighting dirty, the other side finds itself fighting dirty, too.
 
Well, I have some logical reasons to have researched Odinism (being a pagan of Norse descent)...Unfortunately it often gets a bad rep for being racist...
First and foremost it isn't! But there are two main reasons for the misunderstanding...

First, the Swastica was originally a symbol of Odin...Remember folks that Germany also worshiped what we now reffer to as the "Norse" Gods way back when so Hitler decided to take a cultural symbol of divine power and use it as his emblem...Especially since it was the symbol for the leader of the old Gods of his land...

Second, the Norse reconstructionists (Odinists and Astaru) tend to believe that you should only worship the Gods of your ancestors...they feel there is a genetic predisposition to connect with those pantheons...Unfortunately this can come off sounding like "You can't worship our Gods so go find your own" which easily transfers to acounts of racism...Unfortunately it doesn't really help mutts, like myself, who have multiple pantheons to choose from...*shrug*...They don't find other people's pantheons any less valid they just feel that they can't connect to them and nobody else can connect with theirs...

Although I find it hard to believe that all of the prisoners in question could claim the ancestral connection...heck outside of Minnisota area I've found very few fellow vikings kicking around... :p
 
deathlynx said:
Although I find it hard to believe that all of the prisoners in question could claim the ancestral connection...heck outside of Minnisota area I've found very few fellow vikings kicking around...
LOL. Yeah, there is that wee, little problem. I suspect that prisoners aren't that deeply into geneology.

I suspect as well that Odinism is going to have to adjust a little--redefine that "worship the gods of your ancestors" part. I mean, checking out the website, the mythology says that all mankind was decended from the gods so....why would that exclude anyone :rolleyes:
 
3113 said:
And, hello, violent people who want to be violent will find justification. I imagine a Buddist could find in the teaching of Buddah it if he really wanted to throw a punch.

Zen Buddism is the basis of many martial arts. So, yes, buddism does have a violent aspect.
 
deathlynx said:
Although I find it hard to believe that all of the prisoners in question could claim the ancestral connection...heck outside of Minnisota area I've found very few fellow vikings kicking around... :p
I hope you aren't serious.

They're all over northern Illinois, eastern Iowa and most of the midwest.

The was a massive immigration of Swedes into Illinois in the mid 1800's. From there they spread out over a lot of the midwest. Of course, most of them were Lutherans rather than Odinists, but their ancestral connection to the vikings is about as direct as you can get.

Also, since the vikings "settled" large parts of northern England and coastal Ireland a thousand or so years ago, most people of English descent have a goodly amount if viking "blood" in them.
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
``The kind of inmate who might be attracted to this is a white man who is looking for justification for extreme violence, who is looking for an ideology which explains why he should be the boss.'' [/i]

I think there's your answer. I'm not familiar with Asatru (and am quite tickled by the fact that the word 'Paganism' is used as if Paganism is synonymous with Asatru), but that paragraph sums it up. It's a bunch of no-brained fuckwits, looking for an excuse to be nasty to other people. Just like the Klu Klux Klan or Islamic fundamentalists, the religion itself is practically incidental, except as an excuse for behaving like a bastard.

The Earl
 
angela146 said:
They're all over northern Illinois, eastern Iowa and most of the midwest.

Ah, so THAT would be why I haven't been able to find many! I'm from the east coast...You'd think some of the most determined sailors of history would have settled the near shores of the continent :devil:

Also, since the vikings "settled" large parts of northern England and coastal Ireland a thousand or so years ago, most people of English descent have a goodly amount if viking "blood" in them.
Quite true...though most of the people who follow this belief tend to forget this...or rather they discount it if you cannot directly trace your lineage...That or it's been too diluted...*shrug*...I've never particularly liked the sentiment myself but to each their own beliefs, so long as they don't try to impress them upon me...
 
Joe Wordsworth said:
Zen Buddhism is entirely overplayed.
Yeah.

:rolleyes:

One could say the same of any religion one isn't oneself 'overplaying.' Climb down, pard.
 
I have looked into this Viking religion and there is nothing but references to behaving bravely....acting honorably and living life to the fullest. It appeals to warrior types but it should not be singled out as more violent then any other religion.


The Christian Identity movement is filled with many who believe Christ was white and they are meant to rule because of their race.....before that Nazis believed they were they had ties to Atlantis. My question is what nexted?

Are all the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish prisons (all good people I am sure) are being victimized by the new Vikign prisoners? Another preversion of religion and the media jumps on it because it is not an organized one. Notice how they quoted very little from Stephen McNallen, director of the Asatru Folk Assembly an authority on his faith? Media doesn't want answers they want stories.
 
Back
Top