Paddling in Schools

[Etoile]

Today's Washington Post included a front-page (below the fold) article called U.S. Students Still Getting the Paddle. It seems that in a number of states, corporal punishment is still legal in schools.

As kinky people who endorse paddling, spanking, etc. among consenting adults, I'm wondering - how do any of you feel about this practice with disruptive schoolchildren?

Personally, I can't imagine it. I'm against spanking kids in general, but if somebody's going to do it, it should be the parents, not the assistant principal.

 

[Bikewer]

A few years ago, I read a rather scholarly but still fun book called (excuse the spelling) Le Vice Englaise (the English Vice).

It was all about the Brit prediliction for spanking, caning, and other amusements, and the author laid the blame for it's prevalence to the widespread use of caning in "Public" schools.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_3/102-5383274-9494510?v=glance&s=books


Apparently out of print, I found a copy at our university library.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Today's Washington Post included a front-page (below the fold) article called U.S. Students Still Getting the Paddle. It seems that in a number of states, corporal punishment is still legal in schools.

As kinky people who endorse paddling, spanking, etc. among consenting adults, I'm wondering - how do any of you feel about this practice with disruptive schoolchildren?

Personally, I can't imagine it. I'm against spanking kids in general, but if somebody's going to do it, it should be the parents, not the assistant principal.

I have two children. I do not spank them or physically punish them, I have pulled them abruptly away from dangerous things like heaters or the stove, i have raised my voice to show them i mean what i say... we also have a standing rule...lies get punishment (no tv a time out etc.) truth gets discussed (on their level, they do understand the discussion) and the outcome should be they understood why it was wrong and know not to do it again,and all of that works (for now they are young lol). I think my first instinct as mommy would be to claw someones eyes out if they touched my children....especially since i spent a long hard time teaching them right from wrong in a completely different way. No one has a right to undo the way a parent is raising their child by paddling them instead of talking to them. Just my stand on this.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Don't know about The Netherlands, but in Oz it is not tolerated or legal in the public school system, and very few if any private establishments I suspect.

Catalina

 

[redelicious]

Spanking is a last resort and often used by those who have run out of patience and creative ways to discipline (IMHO).

Having said that I have spanked my son on rare occaisions. It's sorta hard to reason with a toddler, especially when safety and well being are at issue. And yeah, I've lost my patience a few times.

My day care provider will spank kids if the parents ask her to, though she is uncomfortable with it. Frankly she is an extremely effective disciplinarian already, so I see no need for her to have to resort to it.

I work in a public school setting. No way in hell would we get away with physical punishment. I can't even imagine using it at the parents' request (and I've had a few who've done that).

Lord help the teacher/administrator who lays a hand on my child without my consent - which is extremely unlikely. By the same token, lord help my child if he ever gets into that much trouble at school that the topic of spanking should even come up.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I lived in Georgia when I was in the 1st and 2nd grade. I clearly remember an incident in first grade where I clearly misbehaved. After several warnings to chill out, my teacher took me out in the hall, went and got the 2nd grade teacher, and then the three of us went into a large storage closet. I was told to pull my pants (and underwear) down to my knees and bend over a large box. My teacher then gave me at least 10 spanks on my bare ass with a large, heavy wooden paddle. I, of course, was crying my eyes out by the time she got to 4 or 5 spanks. And it definitely hurt, not to mention, was embarrassing as hell. I had to stay after school and my Mom was called to pick me up. The teacher explained what I did and what she did.

I don't think my parents were so much pissed off that she spanked, but rather that I would misbehave like that. Plus I'm sure they were a tad embarrassed and piss that they had to come down to the school.

And you can be sure that I never misbehaved like that in school ever again.

As for my parents, I remember getting a swat or two on my ass once or twice, but they weren't really big into the spanking thing. They both preferred to talk things out. And I have to say... the spanking worked much better. LOL.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I'm a teacher...and I'd never do it

A. I don't think that spanking is an effective discipline tool

B. If they're doing something to require that level of discipline, I'm gonna bring in the parents and create much more serious consequences than a momentary pain or embarassment.

C. Not my place to spank a kid

 

[morninggirl5]

Our former principal had a paddle somewhere in the back of a cabinet. She retired in October without ever using it. I really doubt our current principal even has a paddle.

Personally, i don't believe in spanking a child ever. When i worked with younger children i could clearly see the reaction to anger and frustration of children who were spanked was to hit or in some other way be physically aggressive.

Spanking a child may end the momentary problem but the child doesn't learn appropriate behavior. In cases that they are in danger, the lesson not to do something is usually enough, but in other cases, the child needs to learn what to do as well as what not to do.

 

[Mr.G]

I went to Private School (called Public Schools in the UK) in Canuckistan and in the junior grades there were certain activities that were forbidden. Everybody knew. Cross that line on certain things (or get caught) and ya got the paddle.

To say that discipline doesn't teach the appropriate behavior is ridiculous. That kind of discipline was for INappropriate behavior and that's what it taught. Do this (get caught) and there are consequences. No mambi-pambi, "discussion" trying to explain what a kid was wrong. We already knew that. We took those chances and sometimes lost. I don't think any of us EVER considered it abuse.

These days spanking is considered abuse by a huge % of moms out there and it shows. Little kids are running amok in malls while the mother pleads and tries to bribe the little shits into behaving. Ditto in schools. By the time the teachers are allowed to do anything to control some little brat whose never heard the word NO before, the police have to be notified.

Little kids are NOT just small adults. You can not always reason with them. They (we) are pack animals. At a very young age if a little kid realizes that they can do whatever they want and all the discipline their parents are going to mete out is a freaking "time out" then they assume the alphas in the pack (their parents) are too weak to rule and begin to assume that role. Most of the brats misbehaving in the malls these days are 3 and 4 and they are already obviously in charge of their soccer moms. I've seen 4 year olds tell their mom to "fuck off" and the mother just shakes her head and sez, "I don't know what to do. S/he won't listen" No mommy. Your kid knows you are too full of USELESS Polly Anna Syndrome - Dr. Spock gobbledeegook to raise your kids responsibly. You are too weak to control your own brats. They know it and are assuming the dominant role in the family.

It's sad. I'm no worse the wear for getting ma butt walloped a few times and I learned early in life that doing the WRONG thing sometimes resulted in BIG negatives (like pain) and that's something too many in the following and coddled generations do not learn until it's way too late.

My 2¢

 

[Netzach]

I think it's way too easy to cross the line.

Let the right person stand in loco parentis enough to spank and you might get a fairly inoffensive picture like Mr. G's.

Let the wrong person stand in loco parentis with the authority to spank and you get Sylvia Likens.

I'd rather not open that door up.

 

[Vixandra]

Humans have the instinctive desire to aviod pain (in most cases) and to avoid the situations that cause pain. What adults do for pleasure is a whole 'nother ball game.
Using pain to teach a lesson to a child that REFUSES to listen is a tried and pretty true method.
Okay done playing the devil's advocate.

Personally- I think mom and/or dad should be called to the school to pick thier child up, no matter the time, if little "Johnny" can't mannage to behave himself. I'd maim someone for hurting my kids, when I have them. But the little one would be in a world of misery if I had to come pick them up from school because they did something they knew was wrong.
Puplic schools are allowed to expell children who can't/won't behave. I think that should be used more often, personally.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I went to Private School (called Public Schools in the UK) in Canuckistan and in the junior grades there were certain activities that were forbidden. Everybody knew. Cross that line on certain things (or get caught) and ya got the paddle.

To say that discipline doesn't teach the appropriate behavior is ridiculous. That kind of discipline was for INappropriate behavior and that's what it taught. Do this (get caught) and there are consequences. No mambi-pambi, "discussion" trying to explain what a kid was wrong. We already knew that. We took those chances and sometimes lost. I don't think any of us EVER considered it abuse.

These days spanking is considered abuse by a huge % of moms out there and it shows. Little kids are running amok in malls while the mother pleads and tries to bribe the little shits into behaving. Ditto in schools. By the time the teachers are allowed to do anything to control some little brat whose never heard the word NO before, the police have to be notified.

Little kids are NOT just small adults. You can not always reason with them. They (we) are pack animals. At a very young age if a little kid realizes that they can do whatever they want and all the discipline their parents are going to mete out is a freaking "time out" then they assume the alphas in the pack (their parents) are too weak to rule and begin to assume that role. Most of the brats misbehaving in the malls these days are 3 and 4 and they are already obviously in charge of their soccer moms. I've seen 4 year olds tell their mom to "fuck off" and the mother just shakes her head and sez, "I don't know what to do. S/he won't listen" No mommy. Your kid knows you are too full of USELESS Polly Anna Syndrome - Dr. Spock gobbledeegook to raise your kids responsibly. You are too weak to control your own brats. They know it and are assuming the dominant role in the family.

It's sad. I'm no worse the wear for getting ma butt walloped a few times and I learned early in life that doing the WRONG thing sometimes resulted in BIG negatives (like pain) and that's something too many in the following and coddled generations do not learn until it's way too late.

My 2¢

My guess is that you dont have children. That said heres what i think about the moms getting the fuck you's from a 4 yr old in the mall. They arent consistent...yeah in the mall they tell the child to stop or reprimand them, but are they doing it on a constant basis, at home also. I have seen mothers of children who are the same age as mine totally ignore bad behavior when it was inconvinent for them to deal with EG: at the pool cause mommy was reading her book,or mommy is on the phone making lunch plans with g/f . (we have all seen them and i think i need not say more) If they paid attention to the kids in the mall instead of the sales the problem wouldnt exist. If mine did that in public,i would remove them before it got blown up...we would just leave and they would know we left because if it, it would be discussed on their level (4 and 6 btw) and they would know they would not go back there till they understood what proper behavior was and proved it...i would not stay there go back and allow it to happen because i wanted to finish my shopping. Consistancy is the key. My 2 cents back at ya.

 

[Netzach]

Question:

what's Dad doing/not doing to contribute to this scenario?

Before you critique the soccer mom set in depth, hang out with a 2 year old for 8 hours a day for two months. A spank on the tush isn't the panacea it seems to be when you've never dealt.

 

[niteshade]

I doubt this will surprise anyone here who knows me, but I am NOT an advocate of spanking. I was raised in an abusive home; the result was 3 children who all figured out that even if we got spanked, it only hurt for a little while, so why not do whatever the hell we wanted, anyway? My middle sister used to laugh when she got spanked; I talk to her now and she says that when she knew she would be spanked, it was like a switch went off in her... it just didn't hurt, but it made her want to get back at the person who did it... hence the laughing. God, that pissed them off Myself, I finally started blacking out anytime I was hit, and eventually broke my stepfather's nose. Violence breeds violence, folks.

That said, I will tell y'all now... spanking being legal or not in Texas schools, no one had better lay a hand on my sister, who is a sophomore in high school, nor the children I take care of full time now. If I could not get legal recourse, I would get parking lot vengeance, and they would think twice before hitting a child not theirs again.


Spanking, if done at all, should be done on a limited basis, reserved for very serious offenses (i.e. a child who continually plays with fire, or something) by the parent or guardian ONLY; it is not someone else's decision to make.

Besides, as my parental-type creatures found out, if you use a punishment too often, it loses it's effect anyway.

 

[redelicious]

Here's an old thread that deals with whether or not the posters were spanked as children. I include it because of a few posts that deal with attitudes as parents towards spankings:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89297

My son will be 3 in May. I can tell you that though I have spanked him I have always felt bad about it after - like I have failed as a parent to find a better way to teach him. There are times as I've indicated where it seems justified, like when he is about to run into a busy parking lot. I've taught him to always hold my hand, but he is a typical toddler and forgets. I spank him because I prefer that to the alternative. But then, there are those few times I've done it when nothing else seems to work, and I'm tired and frustrated. That's when I've failed. Discipline is hard work, and the consistancy KC mentioned can't take a vacation just because my back hurts or Daddy isn't home to help me.

I have first hand knowledge that what Morninggirl says is true. There is definetely a difference in my son's behavior when he's been spanked recently, which is all the more reason for me to work harder as a parent to find a better way. I can also tell you that time out or time in the corner is indeed VERY effective for a 2 year old who wants nothing more then to run and play. Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be for an older child but there are other age-appropriate ways of handling things. I also am a big advocate of talking. I don't really know how much my son understands, but it's important that he learns why something is appropriate or not appropriate. I believe that this will help him make good choices when I am not around to hold his hand. I also know that it improves his general language skills and builds a foundation for analytical thinking later in life.

 

[Mr.G]

Hmmm?

All I'm saying is that there are way too many people bringing up kids today who rely on time outs and bribes to control their kids. Here's some News folks....It ain't working. For the last few thousand years we've been whacking kids on the butt to teach them that there is a limit to what they're allowed to get away with. Kids NEED guidance. They need to know who's is charge and what their limits are. They push those limits all the time. A smack on the butt defines that. No more.

Why can't anybody have a conversation on spanking without assuming that the "spanking" is going to be a beating with a golf club or smashing a kid several times a day - whether they need it or not? Sure there are people who will take discipline too far but there ARE laws against that. There are psycho parents who have locked their children in cages for the last 19 YEARS. So what? Do we now ban "time outs" because somebody took the concept of "time-out" too far? Verbal abuse and repression can be just as debilitating and hurtful as physical abuse. Do we ban speaking harshly to kids?

Raising kids with no concept of constraint, with no discipline except the constant bribing you hear mothers (and fathers) bleating at their kids now to try and get them to behave is not working. Kids demand "stuff" and parents think it's "abuse" not to cave in and give it to them. Ya...that's raising them to be prepared for the modern world. NOT!

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: Hmmm?

All I'm saying is that there are way too many people bringing up kids today who rely on time outs and bribes to control their kids. Here's some News folks....It ain't working. For the last few thousand years we've been whacking kids on the butt to teach them that there is a limit to what they're allowed to get away with. Kids NEED guidance. They need to know who's is charge and what their limits are. They push those limits all the time. A smack on the butt defines that. No more.

Why can't anybody have a conversation on spanking without assuming that the "spanking" is going to be a beating with a golf club or smashing a kid several times a day - whether they need it or not? Sure there are people who will take discipline too far but there ARE laws against that. There are psycho parents who have locked their children in cages for the last 19 YEARS. So what? Do we now ban "time outs" because somebody took the concept of "time-out" too far? Verbal abuse and repression can be just as debilitating and hurtful as physical abuse. Do we ban speaking harshly to kids?

Raising kids with no concept of constraint, with no discipline except the constant bribing you hear mothers (and fathers) bleating at their kids now to try and get them to behave is not working. Kids demand "stuff" and parents think it's "abuse" not to cave in and give it to them. Ya...that's raising them to be prepared for the modern world. NOT!

Do you know my children or the environment in which they are raised, have you ever seen them in public? Dont judge what you dont know.....it always comes back ta bite ya in the ass and i would hate to be the one to meet you in the mall with your screaming child.

 

[redelicious]

Re: Re: Hmmm?

Do you know my children or the environment in which they are raised, have you ever seen them in public? Dont judge what you dont know.....it always comes back ta bite ya in the ass and i would hate to be the one to meet you in the mall with your screaming child.

LOL

And for the record, this Mommy doesn't cave. It's not really in my personality (and there are several here who can attest to that fact).

 

[sexymom]

There is another point here that too many parents are not aware of. Parents should make it a point to learn what the policies and rules of the school district, and the individual school, are. Public school systems are government agencies, with many of the same powers of city and county governments, and citizens/parents have a chance to influence those policies and rules.

In many cases, once the kids are in school, the desires of the parents aren't given a lot of weight; but they can express themselves at board meetings, or other public hearing activities- all too many don't.

The school district where I last worked outlawed spanking a few years ago, but until then, requests from parents to refrain from spanking their kids were normally consigned to the circular file. It was this disregard of parents' wished that finally got the rules changed.

 

[Peter2002]

My kids

I've got a bunch of boys and I firmly believe that spanking is counter productive. An occaisonal whack in the rear works wonders when they are small. And as they get older a smack in the back of the head is sometimes the best way to get through to them. But the effectiveness of such tactics is in inverse proportion how often they are employed.

As for teachers, phsycally disciplining school children: no way.

Parents, however, might want to agitate for the right to spank some teachers -- at least the young ones!

 

[english vicky]

Hmmm...

Well...i used to get a 'clip round the ear' or a smack on the bottom every now and agan for being naughty. This was at home of course. It worked in my opinion...i understood it at the time, didn't grow to be violent and am - i think - quite a well rounded individual!

Mind you, our school was pretty old fashioned anyway. I'm 22 now, but live in a small village and things run slowly! we had teachers that used to tie loose baby teeth to door handles and pull the door closed to get them out...he was one of the most respected teachers I ever knew...respected by the kids i mean.

They used to hand out the odd clip, nothing hard. It taught kids who to obey and what was right and wrong.

I think in schools it's so difficult. Teachers can vary so much it's hard to say. I think it's safer not to do anything at all, as the law is at the moment. That way there are no accidents or bad punishments.

I have heard that teachers aren't even allowed to use plasters on children anymore, they can't touch them. THAT...is over the top.

I hope you understood what i was trying to say.

Vicky

 

[Etoile]

Just a note - I don't think it's teachers who do the paddling in most states. The article seemed to indicate that adminstrators, such as the vice-principal interviewed, do the paddling.

 

[WriterDom]

I can still remember being paddled quite hard in about the 10th grade by the English teacher for talking when he was out of the room. I think that was a pretty trivial reason to be paddled now. I wouldn't mind squaring the score with my birch paddle. But it is not worth going to jail over.

 

[Joseki Ko]

I find it intersting that in a society where we require a test to drive a car, a degree to get any job really worth having, and a citizen ship test, that the only thing required to sire children is two willing participents. To spank or not to spank should not be the question. The question should be how can I improve my parentiong skills.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I find it intersting that in a society where we require a test to drive a car, a degree to get any job really worth having, and a citizen ship test, that the only thing required to sire children is two willing participents. To spank or not to spank should not be the question. The question should be how can I improve my parentiong skills.

Very well said! Parenting is an ongoing learning experience that no one can prepare you for. As often as our children change and grow so do we as parents.