Order vs. Disorder

[Dillinger]

"To choose order over disorder, or disorder over order, is to accept a trip composed of both the creative and the destructive. But to choose the creative over the destructive is an all-creative trip composed of both order and disorder."

--The Curse of Grayface and the Introduction of Negativism,
Principia Discordia, by Malaclypse the Younger, K.S.C.

Which category best fits you? Order? Disorder? In which aspects of your life? Are you orderly at work or disorderly at home?

If you are involved in any creative endeavors - do you have a system or do you create on instinct? Or both?

Do you find disorder to be creative or destructive or sometimes both?

Do you find order to be creative or destructive or sometimes both?

All tends toward chaos.

----------------------

The Eris that can be talked about isn't Eris,
The Disorder that is messy isn't Disorderly.

The Orgin of Eris is but Eris.
The Orgin of Disorder is also Eris.

And things go on like this for a long time and then they stop and go backwards till they get bored and go do something else.

--Pope Orph Slag
The Chu Chu Ching

 

[Boutoo]

I think I'd best describe myself as efficiently disorderly lol I'm very efficient at work & USELESS at home. I am creative I suppose, but the muse visits me in fits & starts. I'll do loads all at once & then nothing for months/years

 

[kotori]

Disorderly conduct can create new worlds of order. Usually in orange jumpsuits.

 

[riff]

Speaking of the goddamned devil.

My father just dropped by and was appalled by the state of my apartment. He had come to bring me a recliner which had belonged to my grandfather who dided in January.

My father is a type-A clean freak. It upset him terribly to see my couch in the middle of the dining room and my living room set up like an office. He leaves.

Next thing I know, it is my mom at the door. My dad was so upset by what he saw when he came over that he insisted she come to my place to make sure I was OK.

I tried to tell her the place wouldn't be so bad if it were not for the couch in the dining room. I want to sell the thing and get a futon and put it in the room that was formerly my study. I explained to her- why should I spend all of my time in my study that is the hottest room in the summer and the coldest room in the winter? I want to turn the study into a little living room and let my living room be my study where I can spend most of my time in comfort.

I resolve to wash the dishes and clean my kitchen counter and stove tonight.

I like cleanliness, but disorder does not bother me. I mean, I can be messy, but it doesn't mean I am septic!

 

[Starfish]

Annnnnd .....

Welcome back from our break!

We are now in the second half of the game of the local

Disorderly Chaotics against the Tidy Orderlies

Score so far,
Home Team: 10
Visitors Team:6



Go CHAOTICS!

 

[MorgaineLaFay]

I have my own disorder about my little house. But after a while of looking at piles of paid bills, mail, endless lists of things to do, open note books everywhere, loose photographs...My brain starts to feel cluttered. I can't think straight. I have to clean. I can be a bit of a freak, everything has its own place. Ask me where anything is ... I know.

 

[Starfish]

What does a hospital do with chaotic orderlies?

 

[Private Vasquez]

I'm quite disordered, in an orderly fashion. Balance.

 

[sunstruck]

I suppose I'm orderly, though I do have a yen to be disorderly and would throw myself into it full throttle - but first, I have to make a list as to what exactly I'll need to create this disorder, and once created a plan as to how I shall function within it. But after that I'm all about the chaos.

 

[Guest]

"To choose order over disorder, or disorder over order, is to accept a trip composed of both the creative and the destructive. But to choose the creative over the destructive is an all-creative trip composed of both order and disorder."

--The Curse of Grayface and the Introduction of Negativism,
Principia Discordia, by Malaclypse the Younger, K.S.C.

Which category best fits you? Order? Disorder? In which aspects of your life? Are you orderly at work or disorderly at home?
Disorder generally; but I'm a little strange about that: if I'm someplace ie a store and something is seriously out of place I try and put it back.
People I know though have told me that I am the singularly MOST disorganised person that they have EVER met.

If you are involved in any creative endeavors - do you have a system or do you create on instinct? Or both?
I write poetry and I create when something inspires me and then it's more like I discover the poem rather than actually write it.

Do you find disorder to be creative or destructive or sometimes both?
that's an interesting question

I'll think about it and get back to the thread.

Do you find order to be creative or destructive or sometimes both?
In general though I think "sometimes both" fits both categories.

All tends toward chaos.

----------------------

The Eris that can be talked about isn't Eris,
The Disorder that is messy isn't Disorderly.

The Orgin of Eris is but Eris.
The Orgin of Disorder is also Eris.

And things go on like this for a long time and then they stop and go backwards till they get bored and go do something else.

--Pope Orph Slag
The Chu Chu Ching

 

[angelika]

took to long to finish...

"unregistered guest" was me

 

[Guest]

What does a hospital do with chaotic orderlies?

I put 'em in 5 point restraints and give a shot of Ativan.

Dilly, you failed to define order and disorder. It's in the eye of the beholder, after all. One man's disorder is another fish's art.

There is no order or disorder. It just "is" .... depesning on what "is" is, of course...

 

[GreenEyedGirl]

I work in the arts, I work in chaos.
I like it that way. But I also like making order out of chaos, or at least making seeming order out of chaos.
Chaos is our natural state of being. One could even argue the osmosis is the proof of the contained moving into a new environment to be uncontained.
But I am not going to argue.
I am going to smile chaotically at Dilly's new thread!

 

[Calamity Jane]

It's subjective, isn't it? When my house is a mess, I know where everything is. When I clean, and it appears 'orderly', I can spend 20 minutes trying to figure out where I put my book.

I exist in a barely controlled state of chaos. When that gets exhausting, I change it.

 

[Dillinger]

Define order and chaos any way you want, and then base your answer on your own definition...

Ultimately disorder, in the form of chaos, is the order of the day anyway...

 

[Guest]

Morning MC Dill

 

[Guest]

 

[Dillinger]

OK.. let's kick this up a notch. Hang on for some metaphysics.

The Aneristic Principle is that of ORDER, the Eristic Principle is that of the DISORDER. On the surface, the Universe seems (to the ignorant) to be ordered; this is the ANERISTIC ILLUSION. Actually, what order is "there" is imposed on primal chaos in the same sense that a person's name is draped over his actual self. It is the job of the scientist, for example, to implement this principle in a practical manner and some are quite brilliant at it. But on closer examination, order disolves into disorder, which is the ERISTIC ILLUSION.

 

[Guest]

 

[Dillinger]

Excellent point. Yes, I do believe it is our nature to try and order the world around us. And to impose order where there is not - and to see order in the universe even when its quite likely there is none.

It helps us cope.

We can classify, label, sort and explain all we want - but that doesn't necessarily do anything other than help us wrap our minds around things that would be too difficult to think of without such ordering... it doesn't actually create order though - just the semblance of order.

 

[Guest]

 

[Dillinger]

So's that t-shirt you're wearing!

 

[Guest]

 

[claude_moveml]

Feigenbaum

From a scientific perspective there is a fine line between order and chaos. Consider the equation xx = k*x*(1-x) where xx is the next value of the variable x, which is then put back into the equation as x, and so on.

For small values of k, the system quickly settles down to repeating the same value over and over. But increase k and you will get a cycle where x oscillates between two values. Increase k and x will oscillate between 4 values, then 8, and so on, the period doubling as you increase k.

When k reaches a sufficiently large number, the system becomes completely chaotic. This means that you can't predict what it will do without doing the steps themselves. In a 2 cycle you know that after an even number of steps you will have the value you started with, but there are no shortcuts in a chaotic system.

This is where it starts getting interesting.

The rate of period doubling in lots of different systems with different equations is related. In fact, the ratio of the gaps between period doublings converges to a single universal constant, Feigenbaum's constant (4.669...). See http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~berland/math/feigenbaum/feigconstant.html for a diagram of the process and more info. Some people believe that this constant is more important than PI, because it seems intrinsic to the nature of chaos, which occurs very prevalently, where as PI is only useful in flat space, and everyone knows that spacetime is curved.

In short, there is order within chaos.

 

[Guest]

Re: Feigenbaum