Opinions on a scene

sophia jane

Decked Out
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A few months back, I asked for opinions on average sex because I was working on a scene where the sex was supposed to be not so great. I've written the first draft of the scene now, and it feels off to me, like I've made it too bad instead of merely average. So...I'd really like to hear some opinions on the scene and your impressions of the characters. I don't normally post little pieces of a WIP, but this story is going to be my longest thus far and getting it right is kinda important to me. Any thoughts, opinions, criticisms are very welcome. Of course, so is saying job well done, but it doesn't feel well done yet. Thanks bunches! (oh! keep in mind this scene is in the middle of the story between a major character and a minor character).
So here it is:

She unlocked her door and walked inside, looking over her shoulder at him before saying, “Are you coming?”

He hesitated, recognizing her invitation for what it was. He had really liked Sophie, still really liked her, but one date certainly didn’t equal a commitment, and they hadn’t even slept together. And Alicia…Alicia was gorgeous with a body that would make almost any mouth water. No way could he walk away from the opportunity, so he followed her inside, and he shut the door behind him.

Alicia walked down the hall, and Marcus continued to follow her. At her bedroom door he paused, watching as she began to undress. She hadn’t looked at him again, but was simply removing her clothing and tossing each piece aside. Her breasts were high and firm, and perfectly round; a dim part of his mind knew that such perfection had to have been purchased, but seeing her toned and tan body in all its glory, he didn’t much care whether they were natural or not. He crossed the room to her, and only then did she look at him.

“You’re overdressed,” she said, reclining across her bed and watching him, almost passively.

He removed his clothes, even as his mind disengaged fractionally. Why was she just laying there? Did this seem almost too cold?

He climbed onto the bed and leaned over her, his face inches from hers. Her eyes seemed mildly interested, but there was no spark, no passion. He wondered why she had invited him in. He leaned down further and kissed her; she kissed him back, wrapping her arms around him and pulling him toward her. Still, part of his mind knew her actions were not as much from desire as from practice. His body, however, didn’t care. Marcus’ mouth roamed down her neck and to her breasts, to her small pink nipples, down her taut stomach and eventually between her thighs. Alicia moaned appropriately then, when his tongue caressed her clit and his fingers pushed into her. It took several minutes of intense focus on her clitoris before she came, sighing and moaning, but it was worth it to see her finally lose control, even for a few seconds.

Marcus rose and reached for a condom from his pants; he moved between her legs, pushing his cock inside her. Alicia adjusted her legs to give him room to move, and put her hands on his ass, but looking down at her, he could see that she just wasn’t involved. Sure, she moving with him and she was moaning, but again, he felt no passion. Was it him or her, he wondered? She tightened around him, and despite his mind’s questioning, he came in a final thrust.

Neither of them moved for several minutes, but both knew he wouldn’t stay the night. Gradually, they disengaged and Marcus gathered his clothes and dressed. He made apologies for needing to leave that she eagerly accepted, kissed her on the forehead and left. Why, he wondered, did he feel like he should leave money on her nightstand?
 
That wasn't bad, SJ. It did catch the lack of passion nicely.

It seems just a little short though. And perhaps a little more dry than needed.
 
rgraham666 said:
That wasn't bad, SJ. It did catch the lack of passion nicely.

It seems just a little short though. And perhaps a little more dry than needed.

I think I struggled with that initially. Like, I don't want the scene to really be a turn on, so I didn't get all that graphic with it. I'll have to think about that. Any particular part you think could be extended or spiced up and still keep the mood/intent?
 
I think it's pretty damned good. I'd only mention a few things.

--Why have her climax at all? It's hard for me to separate the idea of a woman's climax from passion, and so her climax makes me think she must be feeling something but is just being a bitch about not sharing it with him. (Maybe that's what you want?) Couldn't he go down on her for a while and she could ask him to stop? "Never mind that," or "Please. I'm too sensitive down there." Turn him down somehow? That would do it right there.

--I think it would be more effective if you didn't tell us they were bored and distracted but showed us instead. If she's not enjoying it, why is she moving? If she's just trying to get him to come, then maybe her motions should be "cold and mechanical." Maybe he'd try and arouse her by playing with her clit and she'd ask him not to. I think her eyes would be closed and her hands would be on his shoulders as if she were holding him off, like avoiding contact. Maybe he'd get the feeling that she was counting the strokes till it would be over.

I had a scene once where an inept lover goes down on a girl, and she realizes that he's using the old Playboy Advisor trick of tracing out the letters of the alphabet on her pussy with his tongue. When he got to 'K', she told him that was enough and asked him to stop.

What separates bad sex from good is the amount of emotional involvement. If they're not emotionally involved, then it doesn't matter what fancy tricks they pull - it's still bad sex.
 
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dr_mabeuse said:
I think it's pretty damned good. I'd only mention a few things.

--Why have her climax at all? It's hard for me to separate the idea of a woman's climax from passion, and so her climax makes me think she must be feeling something but is just being a bitch about not sharing it with him. (Maybe that's what you want?) Couldn't he go down on her for a while and she could ask him to stop? "Never mind that," or "Please. I'm too sensitive down there." Turn him down somehow? That would do it right there.

--I think it would be more effective if you didn't tell us they were bored and distracted but showed us instead. If she's not enjoying it, why is she moving? If she's just trying to get him to come, then maybe her motions should be "cold and mechanical." Maybe he'd try and arouse her by playing with her clit and she'd ask him not to. I think her eyes would be closed and her hands would be on his shoulders as if she were holding him off, like avoiding contact. Maybe he'd get the feeling that she was counting the strokes till it would be over.

I had a scene once where an inept lover goes down on a girl, and she realizes that he's using the old Playboy Advisor trick of tracing out the letters of the alphabet on her pussy with his tongue. When he got to 'K', she told him that was enough and asked him to stop.

What separates bad sex from good is the amount of emotional involvement. If they're not emotionally involved, then it doesn't matter what fancy tricks they pull - it's still bad sex.

Excellent ideas. Thanks! I'm not sure why I had her come, actually. It just sorta happened when I wrote it, and I suspect it was out of habit more than anything. That's definitely a great direction to go with it, though.

(as an aside: my ex was like that with oral and the alphabet. Someone told him that was "the way" to do it :rolleyes: )
 
I'm not in the habit of writing blah sex scenes (I hope). But I have, on rare occasion had blah sex. A lot of things have gone into it, and a lot of reasons, generally several at once. Have you considered working into the character's minds just a bit more? Rob said it felt like a scratch scene, kinda short and dry. I think, rather than getting more graphic, you could really keep the feel you want, if you took the reader into the character's head.

For me, the worst sex I can remember wasn't bad because my partner lacked technical skill, it was bad because I wasn' tinto it. And I wasn't into it because my mind was a million miles away. I was thinking about bills, or debts or something i needed to do that day and hadn't.

For me, the essence of the sex scene is in the characters minds. It seems then, that the essence of a bad sex scene, without writing badly, would also be in the characters mindsets.
 
Oh! And a question I meant to ask. That last line in the scene about leaving the money on the nightstand- is that too much? It feels like it might be too much, but I'm actually a little conflicted about it because I liked the line, but it seems like I pushed it too far.
 
I quite liked that line SJ. It was a nice finishing touch in my opinion.

After reading Colleen's post I'm thinking that maybe Marcus should be thinking about Sophia occasionally, perhaps feeling guilty. That would set up the distraction and emotional distance he feels nicely.
 
sophia jane said:
Oh! And a question I meant to ask. That last line in the scene about leaving the money on the nightstand- is that too much? It feels like it might be too much, but I'm actually a little conflicted about it because I liked the line, but it seems like I pushed it too far.

I like the last line. I think it gives a good indication of how the sex made him feel.
 
rgraham666 said:
I quite liked that line SJ. It was a nice finishing touch in my opinion.

After reading Colleen's post I'm thinking that maybe Marcus should be thinking about Sophia occasionally, perhaps feeling guilty. That would set up the distraction and emotional distance he feels nicely.

I think you're right. There's a later scene where he talks about having thought of her while he was with Alicia so I obviously ought to put a little of that into the scene.

I find it fascinating, from a writing pov, looking at one small section of a larger story. It's interesting how much I missed and how adjusting one scene can have an overall effect on the entire story.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
For me, the essence of the sex scene is in the characters minds. It seems then, that the essence of a bad sex scene, without writing badly, would also be in the characters mindsets.

I'm feeling very disagreeable tonight, in a respectfully kind of way, of course.

Yes, the sexy stuff happens in their minds, and a sure way to write a dull sex scene would be to stay in their minds, but I'm convinced that one of the keys to intersting fiction is the voyeursim factor - allowing the reader to determine the characters ideas and feelings from their actions, so you've got to portray those actions that show she's bored inside.

If you want to write a scene involving bad sex, then yes - have her wondering whether she left the coffeemaker on. But if you want to write an interesting scene involving bad sex, you've got to find a way to show the reader that she's wondering whether she left the coffeemaker on without coming out and telling us.
 
All good points from everyone. I agree, I like the line about leaving money on the nightstand. It states nicely the mechanical, blase' nature of their sex.

I don't have a big issue with the woman having an orgasm, especially considering the tone of the piece. She can have a mechanical, blase' orgasm. It's basically masturbation, but using a living penis instead of her hand or a device. I've had that kind of sex before. The woman could have been a dead body and it wouldn't have mattered. She was just something to rub against.
 
I think all ofthe suggestions have been good - Dr. M's especially. Still, as Woody Allen has pointed out, even bad sex is pretty damn good. :)

I really agree with the eye-contact suggestions - looking straight into your lover's eyes while you're so physically intimate is so sexy. It's like you're sharing confidence and vulnerability at the same time. So, lack of eye contact is a dead giveaway that, while your partner may be totally into the sex, they may not be totally into you.

What I might suggest is that you try to think of the act as a performance for each other, rather than a sharing of each other. So maybe a cue is not that an action or response seems rote, it's that it seems forced. Not in a use-of-force way, but in a way where it's like they think, "If I moan like I did when sex was really hot, maybe this will seem like really hot sex"

I like that she comes early and easily - she knows what her body likes from experience. Also, there's nothing quite like a woman who is done with sex, and then the man takes a bit too long to finish up. If you've never heard, "Aren't you done yet?", you've never really tried to overcome the effects of alcohol. ;)

Which leads me to what may be a radical suggestion: He has to fake his orgasm. He fakes, then has to vacate to the bathroom quickly to destroy the condom/evidence. That gives him more of an excuse to make a quick exit, too. "As long as I'm up...." ;)

I guess it depends a lot on which character you're trying to make seem jaded, and which character you're trying to make seem like they're coming to a sad realization.
 
Taking a few of the suggestions, a slightly altered (but by no means finished) scene. I like the orgasm and change and I definitely like his thinking about Sophie. The changed scene:

She unlocked her door and walked inside, looking over her shoulder at him before saying, “Are you coming?”

He hesitated, recognizing her invitation for what it was. He had really liked Sophie, still really liked her, but one date certainly didn’t equal a commitment, and they hadn’t even slept together. And Alicia…Alicia was gorgeous with a body that would make almost any mouth water. Besides, it’d been months since the divorce, and since he’d had sex. There was no way could he walk away from the opportunity, so he followed her inside, and he shut the door behind him.

Alicia walked through her living room and down the hall toward the back of her house. As Marcus continued to follow her, he was reminded of following Sophie down her hall the night before. He shook his head at himself, willing himself to be in the moment and enjoy the night with Alicia. At her bedroom door Marcus paused, watching as Alicia began to undress. She hadn’t looked at him since inviting him and was simply removing her clothing, tossing each piece aside. Her breasts were high and firm, and perfectly round; a dim part of his mind knew that such perfection had to have been purchased, but seeing her toned and tan body in all its glory, Marcus didn’t much care whether they were natural or not. He crossed the room to her, and only then did Alicia look at him.

“You’re overdressed,” she said, reclining across her bed and watching him, almost passively. He wondered what she was thinking, what had happened to foreplay, but he looking down at her very naked body, he decided not to worry about it.

Marcus removed his clothes and his mind disengaged again. Why was she just laying there? Did this seem almost too cold?

He climbed onto the bed and leaned over her until his face was just inches from hers. Alicia’s eyes seemed mildly interested, almost amused, but there was no spark, no passion. He wondered briefly why she had invited him in. Rather than asking, Marcus leaned down further and kissed her softly; she kissed him back, wrapping her arms around his neck and pulling him down toward her. The memory of feeling Sophie’s body against his flashed into his mind. Pushing it aside, he tried to focus on Alicia, but he could sense that her embrace was not as much from desire as from practice. His body, however, didn’t care. Marcus’ mouth roamed down her neck and to her breasts, to her small pink nipples, down her taut stomach and eventually between her thighs. Alicia moaned appropriately then, when his tongue caressed her clit and his fingers pushed into her. While Marcus loved the smell and taste of a woman’s sex, he was distracted by Alicia’s lack of enjoyment. While she moaned occasionally and stroked her fingers across his face and hair, her body didn’t react to the stimulation of his tongue. After several minutes of intense focus on her clitoris, Marcus felt her tug at his face, pulling him up from between her thighs. “Come here,” she said. “Fuck me.”

Marcus sat up and reached for a condom from his pants; he moved between her legs, pushing his cock inside her. Alicia adjusted her legs to give him room to move, and put her hands on his ass, but looking down at her, Marcus could see that she just wasn’t involved. She seemed to be in an entirely different place. Sure, she moving with him and she was moaning with each thrust, but again, he felt no passion. Was it him or was it her, he wondered? The muscles of her pussy tightened around him, clenching and unclenching around his erection, and despite his mind’s questioning, he came in a final thrust. Distantly, he wondered if Alicia had actually come or if those final moans had been an easy way to end the night with no hard feelings.

Neither of them moved for several minutes, but both knew he wouldn’t stay the night. Gradually, they disengaged and Marcus gathered his clothes and dressed. He made apologies for needing to leave that she eagerly accepted, kissed her on the forehead and left. Why, he wondered, did he feel like he should leave money on her nightstand?
 
Sophia,

You may, possibly, be spending a little too much time on the guy's questioning what's going on. It's a form of "TELLING." From the sentence, "His body, however, didn’t care," (which IMHO should be the beginning of a new paragraph) until he climaxes, leave out all his questioning. As the sentence implies, during that time, his body is in charge, not his mind. Instead, SHOW the automatic, mechanical nature of the lovemaking.

Once he's gotten off, then his mind would regain control. He might look at her, maybe notice a self-satisfied expression on her face, and realize she was pleased with her performance, and once again wonder what was in it for her.

In a way, this reminds me of the scene in The Graduate where Dustin Hoffman gropes Ann Bancroft (Mrs Robinson) who ignores his hand while trying to remove a spot she just noticed on her dress.

Good luck

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
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sophia jane said:
<snip> Besides, it’d been months since the divorce, and since he’d had sex. </snip>

<snip>
As Marcus continued to follow her, he was reminded of following Sophie down her hall the night before. </snip>

<snip> The memory of feeling Sophie’s body against his flashed into his mind. </snip>

First minor point- the first line doesn't mesh with the next two lines. They had me saying, "huh?".

I agree with Rumple, too much inside his head during the sex.

She could be staring at the ceiling, or the wall, or anything but him. Or her eyes are closed, etc.

Maybe move the line about his body not caring to just before they have intercourse.


sophia jane said:
<snip>Rather than asking, Marcus leaned down further and kissed her softly; she kissed him back, wrapping her arms around his neck and pulling him down toward her. The memory of feeling Sophie’s body against his flashed into his mind. Pushing it aside, he tried to focus on Alicia, but he could sense that her embrace was not as much from desire as from practice. *insert paragraph break here*

His body, however, didn’t care. Marcus’ mouth roamed down her neck and to her breasts, to her small pink nipples, down her taut stomach and eventually between her thighs. Alicia moaned appropriately then, when his tongue caressed her clit and his fingers pushed into her. While Marcus loved the smell and taste of a woman’s sex, he was distracted by Alicia’s lack of enjoyment. While she moaned occasionally and stroked her fingers across his face and hair, her body didn’t react to the stimulation of his tongue. After several minutes of intense focus on her clitoris, Marcus felt her tug at his face, pulling him up from between her thighs. “Come here,” she said. “Fuck me.”</snip>

Maybe add something about the mechanical feel when she kissed him back. (1st paragraph I quoted)

Maybe mention something about an effort to make her feel something, trying to turn her on, something of that nature. Maybe her hands are lying on the pillows, palm upward, while he's kissing his way down her body. Have her shift her weight and sigh in a humoring manner when he gets to her pussy. Then maybe her hands just rest on his head, with the occasional, absentminded stroke of his hair and face. When she says fuck me, have him hear a "let's get this over with" tone, then interject the part about his body not caring she wasn't into it.


sophia jane said:
<snip>Alicia adjusted her legs to give him room to move, and put her hands on his ass, but looking down at her, Marcus could see that she just wasn’t involved. She seemed to be in an entirely different place. Sure, she moving with him and she was moaning with each thrust, but again, he felt no passion. </snip>

How could he see she wasn't involved? Was she looking around the room, staring at the ceiling, frowning? What gave him the impression? Drumming her fingers on his ass? :D

I'm not sure what else you could do at this moment, but I do know I can't wait to read the final product. :D
 
Thanks for the additional suggestions. I'm definitely going to rethink some of his thinking. :)

One thing that I want to clarify, particularly to Minx, is that I really want the scene to be average sex. Not completely awful, but average. So, while I do want to show that she's not totally involved in what's happening, I don't want to make her a cold fish either. The point of this scene (later) will be that he chooses between Alicia and Sophie and I don't want to demean the significance of his choice by making Alicia so awful in bed that she's unlikable. If that makes sense.

It'll be a bit before this story posts. It's only a small scene in a much bigger story and none of it has gone to an editor yet, so I suspect it'll be a couple of months before the finished product is ready. Thanks for your help everyone!
 
I'm late to this, and haven't much to add the others haven't already ably covered. I am glad you are writing again.

Bad sex happens when you realize you don't really like the person you are with. You could have her say or do something that is a turn off to him, but since they are already having sex, he deems it rude to stop.
 
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