Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice

[sweetnpetite]

As he's grown older, however, [Kurt] Vonnegut's humor has become increasingly despairing, even bleak. In an essay published last year in "The Future Dictionary of America," he wrote, "Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice," and in his new book, "A Man Without a Country," he takes the idea even further, noting that "Albert Einstein and Mark Twain gave up on the human race at the end of their lives, even though Twain hadn't even seen the First World War.... Like my distinct betters Einstein and Twain, I now give up on people, too."

http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-vonnegut10sep10,0,1573930.story?coll=cl-books-features

 

[rgraham666]

I share Vonnegut's despair, and hope.

I think the important thing for us to learn is how limited our power really is. If we stopped confusing ourselves with God, we'd probably do more good.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice

Obviously.

I'll give this to Twain, though, and to Swift before him: neither stopped writing. They railed, they ranted, they agonized over the sheer insanity of human ignorance, arrogance, and cruelty - but they never stopped trying. To the last, they tried to save the vicious, deranged, maddening wicked creatures from themselves.

Gone where savage indignation no more can lacerate their breasts. Peace at last, one hopes, and comfort.

Shanglan

 

[Dar~]

Obviously.

I'll give this to Twain, though, and to Swift before him: neither stopped writing. They railed, they ranted, they agonized over the sheer insanity of human ignorance, arrogance, and cruelty - but they never stopped trying. To the last, they tried to save the vicious, deranged, maddening wicked creatures from themselves.

Gone where savage indignation no more can lacerate their breasts. Peace at last, one hopes, and comfort.

Shanglan

I was surer you were going to tell us that that was why you are a horse.

 

[R. Richard]

"Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice."

I must disagree here. Of course, everyone would like to be a Vulcan. However, not everyone has what it takes to be a Vulcan. Thus, for many, the choice has to be between human and Ferengi. Do you know what it is like when a Ferengi gets an earache???!!!

Live long and prosper!

 

[BlackShanglan]

I was surer you were going to tell us that that was why you are a horse.

That was the "obviously" part.

 

[Dar~]

That was the "obviously" part.

totally missed that line.

 

[BlackShanglan]

totally missed that line.

It wasn't obvious enough?

 

[Dar~]

It wasn't obvious enough?

Hey, I am blonde and have two young children 44 font hot pink letters is sometimes not obvious enough.

 

[Liar]

Confirmed nut case here.

 

[amicus]

Sweetnpetite...."...Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice..."

Now why does that not surprise me?

I note as an aside, that sweets only pasted the article (which I read, rather scanned as it was boring) and did not leave a comment or an opinion.

I have often said that modern liberals, the 'new left', hate mankind and are embarassed by the history of humanity.

Some posters gave voice to that.

But, help me out here; although I think I have pontificated on 'why' liberals hate humanity, I never seem to find agreement. But now, you come out and provide your own evidence to my assertion. Now why would you do that?

I have said before, and astounded this somewhat captive audience, that I find the history of man's rise to supremacy to be a marvelous journey worthy of admiration and praise.

Perhaps this rather eclectic group is cloistered in urban isolation and really does not comprehend the wider world outside the beltway. Perhaps?

Man survived the tooth and claw of nature by being aggressive and by outthinking the saber toothed lion and the cave bear.

Man survived a hostile environment by remaking it in his own image and imagination.

And while the longevity of the existence of man in comparison with the age of the earth is miniscule, he has done rather well for the past 5,000 years.

I am proud of mankind and our achievements and proud to be a man among men.

Go out in the backyard and eat green worms.


amicus... http://english.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=130838


(my dear departed mother used to say that and I never quite understood it, something like 'sour grapes', I think.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I always thought "Sirens of Titan" was his best book. "Slaughterhouse 5" was kind of weak. Vonnegut was never wicked enough to do justice to real horror. It always made him look away.

Amicus, everyone knows that you think things are pretty much hunky-dory. That's why no one ever agrees with you.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I always thought "Sirens of Titan" was his best book. "Slaughterhouse 5" was kind of weak. Vonnegut was never wicked enough to do justice to real horror. It always made him look away.

I found "Player Piano" extremely good. It's a wonderful look at where we both are and are headed.

 

[SlickTony]

My favorite work of Vonnegut's is his anthology of short stories, Welcome to the Monkey House.

And here I'd thought that this was one of these "what kind of animal would you like to be" threads.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Obviously.

I'll give this to Twain, though, and to Swift before him: neither stopped writing. They railed, they ranted, they agonized over the sheer insanity of human ignorance, arrogance, and cruelty - but they never stopped trying. To the last, they tried to save the vicious, deranged, maddening wicked creatures from themselves.

Gone where savage indignation no more can lacerate their breasts. Peace at last, one hopes, and comfort.

Shanglan

Ironicly, this makes you (a gender confused horse) the sanest one here.

But I'm sure you knew that all along.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Sweetnpetite...."...Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice..."

Now why does that not surprise me?

I note as an aside, that sweets only pasted the article (which I read, rather scanned as it was boring) and did not leave a comment or an opinion.

Because I thought the quote itself was interesting. And because it was made by a very well known author. And becuase I wanted to see what a few lit posters would have to say on the topic. (and they ended up being the 1st 2 to reply)

Is it that liberals hate humanity? (i'm sure not all do) or just that anyone who voices distain about the state of humanity is a liberal in your book? Loosing faith in mankind is an interesting topic in and of itself. I don't label it as "liberal thinking" Simply a conclusion one might come to (or not) during the course of ones life. Labeling it a 'liberal position' might make you feel better, but it doesn't make it any less valid as a personal conclusion.

One of my favorite quotes is Anne Frank's "In spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart." But I have to wonder- would she have still agreed with that *after* she was taken to Bergen-Belsen? Would she have still said it when she was dying of typhus? Would she still feel it was true in that last moment before her death? Maybe she would have. Or maybe she would have changed her mind by that time.

My expereinces, observations and conclusions are not any less valid because I am a liberal- nor do I select them because I am a liberal; rather I am a liberal because of them. Nor are my expereinces, observations and conclusions any less valid because I am female.

My personal faith in humanity wavers. There is much to argue for either side.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Man survived a hostile environment by remaking it in his own image and imagination.

~

I am proud of mankind and our achievements and proud to be a man among men.

Go out in the backyard and eat green worms.


amicus... http://english.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=130838

Sure, we survived tigers and bears, but we've created a hostile environment for ourselves in the process. We can do better than wars and toxins. That's the hope and despair of humanity - we don't have to kill each other to survive, but we do anyway.

Man among men? and women? Right? You're proud to be among the ladies, too, right? The ones who bore all those children so there would be more men?

Green worms? What are those?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Very trenchant post, Sweet. Thank you.

 

[CharleyH]

As he's grown older, however, [Kurt] Vonnegut's humor has become increasingly despairing, even bleak. In an essay published last year in "The Future Dictionary of America," he wrote, "Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice," and in his new book, "A Man Without a Country," he takes the idea even further, noting that "Albert Einstein and Mark Twain gave up on the human race at the end of their lives, even though Twain hadn't even seen the First World War.... Like my distinct betters Einstein and Twain, I now give up on people, too."

http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-vonnegut10sep10,0,1573930.story?coll=cl-books-features

Humans are animals? Worst than most

(a first response to the first post, reading the rest now. )

 

[CharleyH]

Sweetnpetite...."...Only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice..."

I have often said that modern liberals, the 'new left', hate mankind and are embarassed by the history of humanity.

Some posters gave voice to that.

But, help me out here; although I think I have pontificated on 'why' liberals hate humanity, I never seem to find agreement. But now, you come out and provide your own evidence to my assertion. Now why would you do that?

I have said before, and astounded this somewhat captive audience, that I find the history of man's rise to supremacy to be a marvelous journey worthy of admiration and praise.

Perhaps this rather eclectic group is cloistered in urban isolation and really does not comprehend the wider world outside the beltway. Perhaps?

Man survived the tooth and claw of nature by being aggressive and by outthinking the saber toothed lion and the cave bear.

Man survived a hostile environment by remaking it in his own image and imagination.

And while the longevity of the existence of man in comparison with the age of the earth is miniscule, he has done rather well for the past 5,000 years.

I am proud of mankind and our achievements and proud to be a man among men.

Go out in the backyard and eat green worms.


amicus... http://english.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=130838


(my dear departed mother used to say that and I never quite understood it, something like 'sour grapes', I think.

Man gag ... "survives" only the environment he made for himself and in the last 5,000 years at least, he has made it. It's a really SMALL dot on the time scale, Amicus? Man did not do much in these many years. Think of it. Acheivements? What are you so proud of other than living on a very small scale of time?

 

[amicus]

Trenchant? Perhaps...


"...Is it that liberals hate humanity? (i'm sure not all do) or just that anyone who voices distain about the state of humanity is a liberal in your book? Loosing faith in mankind is an interesting topic in and of itself. I don't label it as "liberal thinking" Simply a conclusion one might come to (or not) during the course of ones life. Labeling it a 'liberal position' might make you feel better, but it doesn't make it any less valid as a personal conclusion.

One of my favorite quotes is Anne Frank's "In spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart." But I have to wonder- would she have still agreed with that *after* she was taken to Bergen-Belsen? Would she have still said it when she was dying of typhus? Would she still feel it was true in that last moment before her death? Maybe she would have. Or maybe she would have changed her mind by that time.

My expereinces, observations and conclusions are not any less valid because I am a liberal- nor do I select them because I am a liberal; rather I am a liberal because of them. Nor are my expereinces, observations and conclusions any less valid because I am female..."

Correct me if I am wrong and you surely will.

One US political party is opposed to business in general.
One party is opposed to building power plants, refining plants, industrial plants of any kind.
One party considers the natural, pristine environment more important that the human condition.
One party supports abortion, anti life, and gay rights, anti marriage and family values.
One party is opposed to religious expression in public.

One party opposes offshore drilling for petroleum and onshore exploration and drilling, notwithstanding that a national energy crisis is upon us.

One parts acts always to limit, tax, restrict, regulate free enterprise as the free market place struggles to supply the demands of people.

There is more, much much more to the list but if the shoe fits a liberal foot, then wear it with pride.


amicus


Ophelia is here...power is blinking...may be a few days...

 

[CharleyH]

Trenchant? Perhaps...

There is more, much much more to the list but if the shoe fits a liberal foot, then wear it with pride.


amicus

You are such a goader and you barely believe your arguments, lol. How Conservative are you? What's the diff between a liberal and a conservative in your eyes? Why put down liberals unless you can define something that opposes it? You never make an argument on threads I read? (I doubt (EDIT: ) liberalism) is too far off base though, from your opinion lol )

 

[amicus]

Ahm, Charlie H...not even sure if I fully understand your post.

In general, democrats, left wingers, liberals, promote government action in all areas of society. They desire to manage the economy, the schools, business and influence social trends in all directions.

In general, republicans, right wingers, conservatives promote a minimal government presences in all aspects of society. They feel that government is limited to funtioning only within the confines of the constitution.

In other words, Liberal = big government Conservative = small government.

I personally want government out of every area it has poked its nose into for the past 100 years, beginning with public schools, national parks, income tax and anti trust legislation. I desire the government to function within the limits of the constitution.

amicus...

 

[CharleyH]

Ahm, Charlie H...not even sure if I fully understand your post.

In general, democrats, left wingers, liberals, promote government action in all areas of society. They desire to manage the economy, the schools, business and influence social trends in all directions.

In general, republicans, right wingers, conservatives promote a minimal government presences in all aspects of society. They feel that government is limited to funtioning only within the confines of the constitution.

In other words, Liberal = big government Conservative = small government.

I personally want government out of every area it has poked its nose into for the past 100 years, beginning with public schools, national parks, income tax and anti trust legislation. I desire the government to function within the limits of the constitution.

amicus...

Yes, people enjoy using the excuse of not understanding me, love, especially when they do not enjoy answering. I am very understandable, though.

You may not be a liberal, but you lean there. All I really alluded in my previous post was that you are not a conservative, and yet often argue from that POV. This post confirms it, nothing wrong with that.

By the way? The American Constitution is out of date.

 

[amicus]

Anyone else care to address CharlieH's statement that the American Constitution is out of date?

I suppose Einstein's E=MC squared is also out of date, due to age? May as well toss out 3.14 as pi and the K of light.

oh well...