On the basic skill of writing.

[Betticus]

It is an interesting convo... I had no idea which way it would go.

I started it because I was driving home from work, tired and in my mind I found myself imagining the partner for me. That led to an odd sideline mental exercise where I was conversing with this elusive femme.

Sue me, I have a bit of that bipolar thing and a plethora of topics run through my mind at once.

Anyway, the wording and language I use in that mood is very much like a blend of those war love letters of old and a touch of something more classical.


My linens are done so it's time for me to toddle off to bed.

 

[culloden]

I blame the schools. I'm a youth leader, and I read a lot of emails from adolescents, as well as proofreading college application essays. Their writing skills are terrible; they don't know the difference between they're, their, and there, much less when to use an apostrophe with its or it's. They don't self-edit - it's just verbal vomit. And these are kids who get into schools like George Washington, RPI, and Georgetown.

Simply, they aren't taught how to write in the public schools. And when they're given a writing assignment, it's 500 words on xyz. Good writing is expressing xyz in exactly the amount of words needed, not writing some arbitrary number of words about the topic.

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL, this might have a place here...sure is a way to explain the decline of language when editors claim their huge gaffs in a Grammar publication were not mistakes but differences of opinion due to the fact she has moved away from traditional grammar and invented her own version. Sheesh, if we all did that no-one would have a clue what the other was trying to say.

Catalina

 

[Breaker_Morant]

Hmmm, from writing skills to war monuments..

Professional thread hijacking going on here.

I hold up my hands, I'm partly to blame just going along with the flow of the thread. Good discussion non the less.

You and me both, brother. The conversation has definitely taken an unexpected twist. Good conversation, good company nonetheless.

 

[Homburg]

LOL, this might have a place here...sure is a way to explain the decline of language when editors claim their huge gaffs in a Grammar publication were not mistakes but differences of opinion due to the fact she has moved away from traditional grammar and invented her own version. Sheesh, if we all did that no-one would have a clue what the other was trying to say.

Catalina

I am aghast at this. Invented grammar? Grammar is a long-established, evolving consensus. I'm amazed that this could occur.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am aghast at this. Invented grammar? Grammar is a long-established, evolving consensus. I'm amazed that this could occur.

I'm sure it will give a lot of high school students fodder for arguing their poor test results...they can always claim they are just not understood because they have invented their own grammar rules and expect others to know and follow them.

Catalina

 

[jockdom]

I blame the schools. I'm a youth leader, and I read a lot of emails from adolescents, as well as proofreading college application essays. Their writing skills are terrible; they don't know the difference between they're, their, and there, much less when to use an apostrophe with its or it's. They don't self-edit - it's just verbal vomit. And these are kids who get into schools like George Washington, RPI, and Georgetown.

Simply, they aren't taught how to write in the public schools. And when they're given a writing assignment, it's 500 words on xyz. Good writing is expressing xyz in exactly the amount of words needed, not writing some arbitrary number of words about the topic.

Sorry to hijack the thread again but are you named after the 18th century jacobite battle field?

 

[Homburg]

I'm sure it will give a lot of high school students fodder for arguing their poor test results...they can always claim they are just not understood because they have invented their own grammar rules and expect others to know and follow them.

Catalina

I'm going to sit here and quietly sputter.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

Sorry to hijack the thread again but are you named after the 18th century jacobite battle field?

Stuff like THIS is why I continue to comeback. You know you gave me self imposed homework.. bastard! hehe.

 

[jockdom]

I'm not sure about the original argument but I think we should differenciate between good rammar and being able to portray ones emotions and feelings. Ok theses days writen english has slipped in standards but I think there are just as many powerful heartfelt testaments of people baring their souls as in the days of old. Language is just a tool in the end.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm going to sit here and quietly sputter.

I can imagine more than you realise...I know as a parent I would not be impressed if my child was being taught based on what someone had invented for their own amusement then published for teachers to use as a teaching guide. Then again, some parents really couldn't give a rat's arse if their kids ran into problems once they began looking for work just because of dipsticks being given the responsibility of providing them with an education they obviously didn't take as seriously as their own over inflated ego. You get that.

Catalina

 

[Betticus]

I wonder about the practice of changing rules and expectations in order to cater to the sensitive feelings of under performing children. I hope that it's still a minority and that the problems can be fixed.

 

[jockdom]

I wonder about the practice of changing rules and expectations in order to cater to the sensitive feelings of under performing children. I hope that it's still a minority and that the problems can be fixed.

Teachers have an incredible amount responibility. They have in their hands the power to shape the whole future of a young life. One bad primary teacher could consign a child to "failure" for the rest of their education and subseuently their entire working lives.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I have to disagree...

I blame the schools. I'm a youth leader, and I read a lot of emails from adolescents, as well as proofreading college application essays. Their writing skills are terrible; they don't know the difference between they're, their, and there, much less when to use an apostrophe with its or it's. They don't self-edit - it's just verbal vomit. And these are kids who get into schools like George Washington, RPI, and Georgetown.

Simply, they aren't taught how to write in the public schools. And when they're given a writing assignment, it's 500 words on xyz. Good writing is expressing xyz in exactly the amount of words needed, not writing some arbitrary number of words about the topic.

Being a writter I have to note that sometimes being able to consolidate (yes I went to public school,lol) a essay is as hard as chosing the words and ideas for the essay itself...

I have wrtten 1,000 word essay and a 300 word essay and in my expirience it is harder to shorten then lengthen...

And I hate to sound like I am arguing but public school, like college is what you make of it and you definately get back what you put in, its a big picture problem...

The kid who can't write a essay because he's being abused at home, or going to pharm parties isn't screwing off solely because the school sux,

I started earning college credits in the 7th grade, I can not only write any type of essay, but I could teach anyone to do it...

Its like the Fcat the problems are easy... they are made to be, so why can't some kids get out of high school because they can't read a paragraph and pick out the answers to five questions, because they don't give a shit...

And how can you blame them... when I dropped out of school it was because I was homeless and had to work to support myself...

 

[culloden]

Sorry to hijack the thread again but are you named after the 18th century jacobite battle field?

I am. I'm not quite sure why I chose that moniker besides having some Scots in my genes, so to speak. Not a great day for the Scots, that, but it did at least have a part in shaping American music. Connections.

 

[culloden]

Being a writter I have to note that sometimes being able to consolidate (yes I went to public school,lol) a essay is as hard as chosing the words and ideas for the essay itself...

I have wrtten 1,000 word essay and a 300 word essay and in my expirience it is harder to shorten then lengthen...

And I hate to sound like I am arguing but public school, like college is what you make of it and you definately get back what you put in, its a big picture problem...

The kid who can't write a essay because he's being abused at home, or going to pharm parties isn't screwing off solely because the school sux,

I started earning college credits in the 7th grade, I can not only write any type of essay, but I could teach anyone to do it...

Its like the Fcat the problems are easy... they are made to be, so why can't some kids get out of high school because they can't read a paragraph and pick out the answers to five questions, because they don't give a shit...

And how can you blame them... when I dropped out of school it was because I was homeless and had to work to support myself...

I'm an editor, and I work with a lot of lay writers. These are intelligent people, typically successful in their field, and not one out of twenty can write coherently. No one ever taught them how. Learning to write well is time consuming and painful. Public schools lack the time, but particularly the moral courage, to teach writing. The only way to learn to write is to do it and be criticized by someone who's a good writer. It hurts to get back a paper that's covered with red ink. It's tough to reconcile this with the schools' fascination with student's self esteem.

None of which contradicts your point. If a kid and the family don't value education, there's nothing any school can do.