On Native Soil

[ABSTRUSE]

court tv: on native soil

Not sure if anyone watched this last night on Court TV but if you get a chance its very worth watching.
It tells the Stories of 9/11 from the families search for answers, the mistakes that were made, the final creation of a commision to look into affairs, and some shocking facts that transpired in the days before and on 9/11.

There was security footage of two of the hijackers going through the metal detectors and setting them off only to finally be allowed through. One hijacker got on the plane with no photo ID.

The widow of one of the victims showed improperly filled out VISA forms...one listing the address as "hotel". (Anyone who has ever filled out papers in the welfare office knows that if you forget a comma they reject you )

The FAA was a bunch of clowns as you will see.


I'm not just bringing this up because it happened so close to where I live or in my nation but because it impacts all of us. How many of our family and friends travel extensively and should we really need to worry about thier safety when we see them off?
We need to tell these offices and corporations that they need to stop being greedy and start doing their jobs. Information needs to be shared. Someone needs to be held accountable.

Only one apology was given at the commision hearings.




New york Post review.

 

[Aurora Black]

Bastards!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Bastards!

Rat bastards.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

...

The FAA was a bunch of clowns as you will see.
...

You got the clown part right.

ETA: I didn't mean to infer that the rest wasn't right. Just making myself clear here.

 

[rgraham666]

Can't blame the FAA too much.

Like many public agencies, it's been starved of funds for a while now. It can't do it's job when it's short of money and trained personnel.

I don't know what it's like now, but before 9/11 the people that worked at entry points in airline terminals were paid about the same as Mcdonald's employees and 90% of them had been on the job for less than six months.

We want to be protected but we're not willing to pay for it. Something for nothing never works.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Can't blame the FAA too much.

Like many public agencies, it's been starved of funds for a while now. It can't do it's job when it's short of money and trained personnel.

I don't know what it's like now, but before 9/11 the people that worked at entry points in airline terminals were paid about the same as Mcdonald's employees and 90% of them had been on the job for less than six months.

We want to be protected but we're not willing to pay for it. Something for nothing never works.

Its called greed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Can't blame the FAA too much.

Like many public agencies, it's been starved of funds for a while now. It can't do it's job when it's short of money and trained personnel.

I don't know what it's like now, but before 9/11 the people that worked at entry points in airline terminals were paid about the same as Mcdonald's employees and 90% of them had been on the job for less than six months.

We want to be protected but we're not willing to pay for it. Something for nothing never works.

That's basically true, except, the FAA is an agency that is supposed to control the airline industry and promote the airline industry. Two conflicting duties.

 

[rgraham666]

Its called greed.

An attribute which has been changed from a sin to a virtue in our society.

 

[Aurora Black]

From the movie Wall Street:

Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.

 

[wazhazhe]

That's basically true, except, the FAA is an agency that is supposed to control the airline industry and promote the airline industry. Two conflicting duties.

The FAA is supposed to promote the airline industry? That's news to me; maybe to them, too.

 

[SesameStreet]

The FAA pre-9/11 was thinking only of a possible hijacking to hold hostages as had already happened a few times around the world. They were not thinking of using the planes as missiles. They were understaffed and the workers that they had were grossly underpaid. I go along with "you get what you pay for." You hire someone and overwork them and pay them peanuts and they aren't going to care what you put down as your address. Now that it is post 9/11 perhaps those FAA workers are more concientious. I would hope so.

The really scary thing.............The FAA pre 9/11 was about as adept as our Border Patrol is now. That should make you stop and think.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The FAA is supposed to promote the airline industry? That's news to me; maybe to them, too.

Then maybe you should take a look at the FAA mission statement.

 

[wazhazhe]

Then maybe you should take a look at the FAA mission statement.

Perhaps you should read the FAA mission statement. I read it before I made my first post on this subject. It's obvious you did not.

FAA Mission Statement

Our Mission
Our mission is to provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world.

Our Vision
Our vision is to improve the safety and efficiency of aviation, while being responsive to our customers and accountable to the public.

Our Values
• Safety is our passion. We're world leaders in aerospace safety.
• Quality is our trademark. We serve our country, our customers, and each other.
• Integrity is our character. We do the right thing, even if no one is looking.
• People are our strength. We treat each other as we want to be treated.

Funny, but there's not one word here about promoting the airline industry. Let's take a look at the current Faa initiatives.

FAA Initiatives

• Air Transportation Oversight System
• En Route Automation Modernization
• Global Aviation Information Network
• Global Position System Implementation in Aviation
• Information Systems Security
• Integrated Capability Maturity Model
• International Aviation Safety Assessments
• National Airspace System Modernization
• National Airpspace System Operational Evolution Plan
• Plain Language
• Regulation and Certification Group Customer Service Initiative
• Safety Risk Management
• Standard Terminal Automation Replacement System

There's nothing here about promoting the airline industry here.

In case you haven't figured it out, the FAA is a government regulatory agency. The airline industry, as well as most other industries, have private, industry funded organizations that exist soley for the promotion of those industries.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

An attribute which has been changed from a sin to a virtue in our society.

Neither approach is balanced, in my view. Greed has its place. However, it has gotten out of hand. When you are so fucking obsessed with money for your pet pork-barrel program that you can't spare a few mil for national security, your priorities are skewed and you need to quietly retire from public office before you get caught on the take. Then again, this is nothing new. Many public servants are bought and paid for. Happened in another Republic once, called Rome. That Republic STILL lasted longer than ours. Food for thought.

 

[rgraham666]

But the central Roman trait, "Come back with your shield or on it", remained a central characteristic of Rome, even the upper echelon for a very long time.

In our society, the idea that society is more important than we are is fading very fast. Society, in our opinion, is there for us, rather than the other way around.

And this attitude is worse the higher up the ladder you go.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

• Global Aviation Information Network

Every FAA spokesman I have heard on TV and radio has promoted air travel over any other form of travel. They have not promoted one airline over the other but they always promote air travel, saying it is the safest form of commercial travel in the US and the world. They also talk about the newest safety initiatives they will implement in the year 20xx and beyond, which does no good today.

But their main thrust is promoting air travel.

 

[wazhazhe]

Every FAA spokesman I have heard on TV and radio has promoted air travel over any other form of travel. They have not promoted one airline over the other but they always promote air travel, saying it is the safest form of commercial travel in the US and the world. They also talk about the newest safety initiatives they will implement in the year 20xx and beyond, which does no good today.

But their main thrust is promoting air travel.

You heard it on TV? Really?

There is nothing under any section of the FAA web site that even mentions promotion; not under Aircraft, Airports & Air Traffic, Data & Statistics, Education & Research, Licenses & Certificates, Regulations & Policies, or Safety. There is nothing in the FAA Mission Statement, current FAA Initiatives, FAA Budget, FAA Committees or FAA Offices.

Have you ever met anyone from the FAA? Have you ever dealt with someone from the FAA in a professional capacity? No? Well, I have. I spent my career in the airline industry. I worked with FAA and airline personnel on rules, regulations, requirements, education, certifications, licensing, data, statistics, policies and safety on a daily basis for years. To a lesser extent, I have dealt with the FAA on aircraft, airports, air traffic and safety through my involvement with flying and skydiving.

You heard it on TV? Grow up.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You heard it on TV? Really?

There is nothing under any section of the FAA web site that even mentions promotion; not under Aircraft, Airports & Air Traffic, Data & Statistics, Education & Research, Licenses & Certificates, Regulations & Policies, or Safety. There is nothing in the FAA Mission Statement, current FAA Initiatives, FAA Budget, FAA Committees or FAA Offices.

Have you ever met anyone from the FAA? Have you ever dealt with someone from the FAA in a professional capacity? No? Well, I have. I spent my career in the airline industry. I worked with FAA and airline personnel on rules, regulations, requirements, education, certifications, licensing, data, statistics, policies and safety on a daily basis for years. To a lesser extent, I have dealt with the FAA on aircraft, airports, air traffic and safety through my involvement with flying and skydiving.

You heard it on TV? Grow up.

Then tell me why the all great an powerful FAA is not the agency to investigate airline crashes?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Okay, enough about the FAA fucking up...how about the rest of the country?
Do we need to become proactive without becoming fanatical? can we?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Okay, enough about the FAA fucking up...how about the rest of the country?
Do we need to become proactive without becoming fanatical? can we?

Maybe, maybe not. You want to know? Ask the experts. Ask the only Airline in the world that has never had an airplane hijacked. Israel.

 

[rgraham666]

Okay, enough about the FAA fucking up...how about the rest of the country?
Do we need to become proactive without becoming fanatical? can we?

Another important question is do you want to? Either become proactive or fanatical.

Terrorism is like the War on Drugs. There's no way to 'win'. There will be no D-Day, no great battles, no day when the enemy leaders sit down to surrender. This makes it very boring and few people will care enough to do what needs to be done.

On the other hand, it makes for great politics. "I'm tough on terrorism," the politicians say. And we'll vote for them. Whether anything useful is accomplished or not is besides the point. They get elected and we feel better.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Another important question is do you want to? Either become proactive or fanatical.

Terrorism is like the War on Drugs. There's no way to 'win'. There will be no D-Day, no great battles, no day when the enemy leaders sit down to surrender. This makes it very boring and few people will care enough to do what needs to be done.

On the other hand, it makes for great politics. "I'm tough on terrorism," the politicians say. And we'll vote for them. Whether anything useful is accomplished or not is besides the point. They get elected and we feel better.

This is true as terrorism is a tactic not a person or nation which you can go after. So when the war on terror ends the only way to know will be no one will be talking about it anymore as there will be no terrorists plying their trade. Either they won't have to or they will have learned that it does no good for them as individuals only for those at the top of the food chain.

Just as the Soviet Union went out with a whimper so too shall the terrorists.

 

[wazhazhe]

OK. The FAA is a regulatory agency for that operates within the Department of Transportation. "Our mission is to provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world. Our vision is to improve the safety and efficiency of aviation, while being responsive to our customers and accountable to the public."

In 1967, Congress created an independent agency to investigate transportation related accidents; the National Transportation Safety Board or NTSB. This is their mission statement.

The National Transportation Safety Board is an independent Federal agency charged by Congress with investigating every civil aviation accident in the United States and significant accidents in the other modes of transportation -- railroad, highway, marine and pipeline -- and issuing safety recommendations aimed at preventing future accidents. The Safety Board determines the probable cause of:

* all U.S. civil aviation accidents and certain public-use aircraft accidents;
* selected highway accidents;
* railroad accidents involving passenger trains or any train accident that results in at least one fatality or major property damage;
* major marine accidents and any marine accident involving a public and a nonpublic vessel;
* pipeline accidents involving a fatality or substantial property damage;
* releases of hazardous materials in all forms of transportation; and
* selected transportation accidents that involve problems of a recurring nature.​