on line vs real

[lostsavage]

my wife and I have been going thru some changes in our sex lives lately (all for the good). We have started experimenting with some things together and apart. Together we are bother pretty equal and switch roles easily. She enjoys being s to me as I do for her, but in she seems to not be able to respect my position when playing. While I on the other hand, while we are playing give her D position the respect I think it warrants. She has been playing online with others (with my full knowledge and permission) In these she is a very compliant s and has no problem playing along. I would like for her to at least respect my D position while playing the same way.

My question is can a person ever get beyond many years of familiarity with a person and see them as a D or should I just allow her to explore her s side online and just continue to deal with the real life stuff as a separate issue.

Any help for the noobies to the board would be great.


LS

 

[FurryFury]

I think it might be easier to see some mysterious online stranger as a D.

However what you consider respecting you as a D and what she considers could just be two different POV's or two different kinds of people involved.

When I topped my husband he severely pissed me off because I felt he wasn't focusing on what I wanted him to.

After we talked it over, I found he was a very different sort of bottom than me. Not better or worse, mind you just different. Some would find him more fun to play with because of the resistance and challenge. Some would not.

Perhaps more conversation could help?

IMO, real life can't be "beat" by online. It's the difference between a key stroke and perhaps self play and actually being in a scene.

But that may just be me.

*shrugs*

Good luck.

Fury

 

[AngelicAssassin]

She enjoys being s to me as I do for her, but in she seems to not be able to respect my position when playing.

My question is can a person ever get beyond many years of familiarity with a person and see them as a D?

i keep reading the above and can't get past the disconnect. The many years of familiarity should enhance the experience, not hinder it. You know how each other ticks. Might want to invest a little time leveraging the latter to sit down and speak frankly about the former.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it is possible, but would require at least some, if not a lot, of mental work on her part, and patience and reinforcement of your D role on your part. I can relate to how the familiarity you speak of could infringe on the desire to see you as a D. For one thing, you are both switching from a basically mainstream relationship where likely you were both equal, she was able to say no to something if she didn't want it or see it as reasonable, seen you in all your good and bad moments, to now requiring her to seeing you as someone she must obey and believe on every level that you have the right to tell her what to do and be her Dominant. That is not an easy mindshift to make after years of the opposite, especially if it has not played a part in your lives in any way until recently. She has also seen you in your best and worst moments, your most intimate moments, likely knows your inner thoughts and secrets, probably washed your smelly socks and undies....all things which do not exactly fill the mind of a new submissive as being part of being a Dominant or attractive dominant qualities, even though it is a valueable lesson all learn over time that it is the reality....Dominants are not omnipotent beings, just human like the rest of us with all their imperfections, insecurities and bad smells.

A stranger online OTOH, not only has no previous reference points in her mind, but also may be easier to submit to and not feel stupid at times doing what is asked and what previously she would not have considered doing at the request, not to mention order, of anyone. An online play partner can also be whoever they want to be, appear to be as Dominant as a demigod, perfect and flawless, though the reality may be vastly different. Some people have this view that if you are a submissive you 'just submit', irrespective of what the Dominant does or does not do or say, or how they act...I always wonder then why a Dominant isn't expected to 'just dominate' for much the same reason (or how that then protects the submissive from submitting to the oft warned of predators and pretenders out there), but that is off topic a little. What I was going to say is perhaps though she may want to submit to you, she requires a little extra dominance on your part to help her get there, or perhaps you need to create some ritual to go through before playing which will become like a trigger in her mind to become submissive to you. It could also simply be she is one of the many who finds it difficult to switch with the same person....being both Dominant and submissive to the same person can create it's own set of issues for some, mostly involving how they switch mentally between the 2 roles, but with the same partner.

Is it an option that you include others in play (you can both be present when others are involved to prevent issues of jealousy and/or insecurity), so there is less confusion over which roles you are in? It is possible to have play partners without being sexual with them if that is not a path you wish to go down. Sometimes it is good if you find another couple with similar needs so play can be present, then when or if you want to involve sex as an extension of D/s play, you have your own partner there. This aspect can also become a part of the D/s with the other couple with Dominants from both couples directing what or if anything sexual happens with your spouse/partner.

I wouldn't give up on her being submissive (unless she tells you she just isn't that into being a sub and is more Dominant), just hang in there and talk more about what is creating the differences for her. Comparing her behaviour and attitude to your own in the same role may at this point be more detrimental than helpful if you hold it up as a comparative example of what is displeasing you...sort of like waving a red flag at a bull and very counterproductive. We all are different, so even with someone else she is going to be different as a submissive, just as you would be. Individuality is what makes it more interesting and challenging. Good ,uck with your journey....it can be hard work at times, but also a lot of fun.

Catalina

 

[TheDivineMsM]

I would suspect that your referring to her not respecting your position as a D stems from her not "seeing" you as a D.
Personally I would get very, very strict…But that works for me. I am very strict in the beginning, with zero tolerance for bullshit. This is what I want, how I want it. It lays the foundation, and I can soften later…because they already know what I expect. That way she has no choice but to see you as a D. and you set up the parameters for you being the authority in play.
Of course this will take a bit of conversation first...In saying when I am the D you will submit to my authority...or x, y, z (whatever is comfortable for you and your relationship) or I will discontinue play for (whatever again feel comfortable for you) or punish you in this way. But the above depends on what you’re looking to experience in play.
Do you want to be more loving and playful but sexually dominant? A sadist with his own personal masochist? BDSM and D/s is so broad, I feel with some adult conversation outside scene, and clear expectations your experiences should improve. Also some research on where it is you would like to take your experiences.
Just my .02

 

[neonflux]

I would suspect that your referring to her not respecting your position as a D stems from her not "seeing" you as a D.
Personally I would get very, very strict…But that works for me. I am very strict in the beginning, with zero tolerance for bullshit. This is what I want, how I want it. It lays the foundation, and I can soften later…because they already know what I expect. That way she has no choice but to see you as a D. and you set up the parameters for you being the authority in play.
Of course this will take a bit of conversation first...In saying when I am the D you will submit to my authority...or x, y, z (whatever is comfortable for you and your relationship) or I will discontinue play for (whatever again feel comfortable for you) or punish you in this way. But the above depends on what you’re looking to experience in play.
Do you want to be more loving and playful but sexually dominant? A sadist with his own personal masochist? BDSM and D/s is so broad, I feel with some adult conversation outside scene, and clear expectations your experiences should improve. Also some research on where it is you would like to take your experiences.
Just my .02

TheDivineMsM, I think these are great points/questions! As I was reading, it brought back memories of how difficult it was for my former play partner, male, also switch, to feel comfortable embracing his Dominance without feeling guilty in the beginning (we were both newbies together). He was raised with very feminist ideals and it took several months for him to feel ok giving orders firmly and with the expectation of obedience. (I on the other hand... LOL.)

Neon

P.S., I adore your AV, think it's pretty darn amazing.

 

[RJMasters]

I think the advice that all have given in this thread to be great.

The only thing I will add is that it is far easier to submit to some fantasy and romantic notion or D/s online than to live it.

Online has a tendancy of being conveinant oriented. Being married and living together 24/7 is not something you can just turn off or turn on when you want.

Here is some striaght up advice take it or leave as you like.

Take a firmer hand with her. As you do, show her the difference between what you have to offer her as a flesh and blood person as opposed to distance communication.

It time to take your game up a notch. For example when you shove your cock inside her nice and hard and her body arches in the pleasure of it, grab her by the hair and ask her if her online Doms can do that.

If she is into spanking, flip her over and hold her down and spank her bottom blue making her answer if her online Doms can do this.

When she is sitting at the dinner table with you reach over and put your hand on hers and let her know that she IS special to you in a way those online Doms could never be.

There is fantasy and there is reality, "IF" she is only interested in submitting to a fantasy because its convenient then that's on her, but if you lack the ability to step up and show her what it means to respect you and the real things you have to offer as a dominant, then that's on you.

Being dominant is about being assertive and even aggressive. Being a Dom is about being wise and both of those things when it comes to obtaining the affection, submission and devotion of another. Part of what makes a submissive feel special is the aggressiveness in which a dom focuses upon them specifically.

In being wise I would sit and communicate with her to try and understand what is it exactly that she gets out of being online emotinally/mentally and physically. First and foremeost to understand her better, but secondly, to arm yourself for battle.

You want the respect from your wife that you feel you deserve? here's a novel idea, how about fight for her to win back her affections and show her what a real man is rather than some text on a screen. Ask yourself what you are prepared to do to win her back? Then be a man of action rather than of words and do it!


I wish you luck in your endevors and hope that you are sucessful in your pursuits.

~Rich

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

We don't have the online vs real thing but I think this is a good thread to look at for those of us that found we may have wanted more in an already established relationship. It's not easy to shift things when you get used to your partner and how or who they are. Every relationship takes effort. I think it just comes down to how much you are willing to put into it. I would guess she is wanting you to do some of what RJ mentioned. Prove to her that you are willing to do as you both need and that she is worth being pursued.

 

[Marquis]

My question is can a person ever get beyond many years of familiarity with a person and see them as a D or should I just allow her to explore her s side online and just continue to deal with the real life stuff as a separate issue.

I think this is a really interesting question, and I've enjoyed seeing everyone's perspective on this.

Personally, I think you're already stepping in the right direction, by reaching out to people on this board, I mean.

I believe that in order to achieve the position you want in your relationship, it requires BOTH cooperation AND a level of independence on your part. Negotiating the terms of the relationship, sharing fantasies, discussing limits and practicing with each other is all extremely important to maintaining a healthy relationship.

However, it is my belief that if you desire true domination of your partner, there must be times when you take your own initiative into creating that, offering them the opportunity to follow that initiative.

Allow me to clarify.

Let's say you want to act out a kidnapping/rape fantasy. You want it to include bondage, breath play, impact play, oral sex, anal sex, etc. etc.

Now, I do think it is important that you understand all those things are ok with her before you go into it, but that doesn't mean you want to give her an entire play-by-play....

"well I was thinking you'd go down to our favorite bar and we'd pretend not to know each other, and then I'd lure you out to the parking lot and tie you up and then I'd take you home and then...."

At some point, I think you have to take some of that responsibility (proportionate to how much she's offering, of course) on yourself to navigate the finer points of the scene, or she'll never be able to suspend her disbelief that her loving partner is actually the bad ass of her wet dreams.

Gather the information you need, subtly. Make the necessary preparations, independently.

 

[JFJ_sub]

my Ex and i were D/s the last 5 years of our marriage in a 15 year marriage. i discovered the "label" for my personality online and explored/learned all i could. Years i knew what my personality was, but didn't realize there was a whole world out there of others just like me, not only D/s but S&M too. i did experiment online at first sort of testing the waters i guess but found rather quickly that was unsatisfying to me. It was very difficult to broach the topic with my Ex, to say i want this in my life, need this in my life. i did not find it difficult to make the switch from what our marriage had been to a D/s one. In a lot of ways it was easier because of years together, closeness, and knowledge of each other. Communication was an absolute necessity, particularly in the beginning. It was easier to talk with him about his expectations of me and to truly just let go sexually and mentally without any fear of judgment from him. All this to say, i think it is very possible to change the dynamics of a relationship if both sides desire it, perhaps maybe even easier than the beginnings of a new one with a stranger.

 

[Ice2000]

This is a subject that fascinates the heck out of me. I have tried to understand it with my sub partners that are married. Generally it does not make logical sense to me at all. But generally it has been my experience that the answer to your question is NO.. she will never see you as a Dom.

I ask a ton of questions of my subs about there marriage/ husband relationships and responses to the question of.. Why don't your ask your hubby to do this(This being anything she finds exciting) range from..

Hell NO are you freaking crazy.. (the most common answer)

to..

I have and he has tried ... but its about as exciting as taking out the trash.

It has something to do with expectations of an established personality. She sees you as a friend, a good all round guy.. father of her kids perhaps. But she is looking for the bad guy.. perhaps someone that frightens her a little. And it excites the heck out of her. Its really hard to fill both rolls.

Wish I had better news.. but it is what it is.

 

[Marquis]

Wish I had better news.. but it is what it is.

Is it?

I do think it's difficult to fill both roles, as well, but for most of us in the lifestyle who hope to have fulfilling relationships, we do need both.

I have been in a situation where a relationship has started out very heavy in the D/s sense, and petered off to where neither of us saw each other in those roles anymore. I would imagine that the challenge of keeping the D/s alive and kicking in a longterm relationship could be comparable to starting it up.

Seeing your dom cry or hearing your sub fart is probably not a major part of anyone's D/s fantasy, but both of these things exist in the reality of a close relationship. If the desire is mutual, I tend to believe that where there's a will there's a way.

 

[Ice2000]

Is it?

Yes I truly believe it is Marquis. Oh there are lots of BDSM relationships that go vanilla.


But I have never heard of a long term vanilla going the other way. I'm not saying it is impossible, just saying it has to be very very rare.

 

[eastern sun]

. . .it is far easier to submit to some fantasy and romantic notion or D/s online than to live it.

Online has a tendancy of being conveinant oriented. Being married and living together 24/7 is not something you can just turn off or turn on when you want.

Here is some striaght up advice take it or leave as you like.

Take a firmer hand with her. As you do, show her the difference between what you have to offer her as a flesh and blood person as opposed to distance communication.

It time to take your game up a notch. For example when you shove your cock inside her nice and hard and her body arches in the pleasure of it, grab her by the hair and ask her if her online Doms can do that.

If she is into spanking, flip her over and hold her down and spank her bottom blue making her answer if her online Doms can do this.

When she is sitting at the dinner table with you reach over and put your hand on hers and let her know that she IS special to you in a way those online Doms could never be.

There is fantasy and there is reality, "IF" she is only interested in submitting to a fantasy because its convenient then that's on her, but if you lack the ability to step up and show her what it means to respect you and the real things you have to offer as a dominant, then that's on you.

Being dominant is about being assertive and even aggressive. Being a Dom is about being wise and both of those things when it comes to obtaining the affection, submission and devotion of another. Part of what makes a submissive feel special is the aggressiveness in which a dom focuses upon them specifically. . .

As the wife in a similar scenario, I completely agree with this advice. It is what I would hope my husband would do, and am deeply grateful for when he does.

The habits of a long-standing marriage are hard to break even when we want to. It takes tremendous patience and a lot of honesty to work this change into an existing relationship.

Based almost entirely on fantasy, online relationships can be incredible avenues into one's sexual imagination. I certainly discovered the nature of my deepest fantasies by sharing them with anonymous strangers. But online relationships can be equally frustrating because, quite frankly, I prefer someone else's hands to my own.

Your wife is reading your actions, and probably experiencing them in relation to her fantasies. She needs to be reminded that your power is real in her life, that you know her better than any of those anonymous strangers, and that she belongs to you. And you need to believe that to be true to be able to communicate it to her.

 

[Marquis]

Yes I truly believe it is Marquis. Oh there are lots of BDSM relationships that go vanilla.


But I have never heard of a long term vanilla going the other way. I'm not saying it is impossible, just saying it has to be very very rare.

Hmmm.

So then here's my question:

If it was D/s, then went vanilla..... can you get it back?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yes I truly believe it is Marquis. Oh there are lots of BDSM relationships that go vanilla.


But I have never heard of a long term vanilla going the other way. I'm not saying it is impossible, just saying it has to be very very rare.

Hmm, there are a few here in this forum which were vanilla for many, many years and then went D/s (with the same partner) and still are.

Catalina

 

[Marquis]

Yes I truly believe it is Marquis. Oh there are lots of BDSM relationships that go vanilla.


But I have never heard of a long term vanilla going the other way. I'm not saying it is impossible, just saying it has to be very very rare.

By the way, I have to wonder if this, presuming it is true, could be reflective of a lack of support for this conversion from the BDSM community. It doesn't take much imagination to discern why members of the BDSM community would be more likely to advise replacement than repair.

 

[Ice2000]

Hmm, there are a few here in this forum which were vanilla for many, many years and then went D/s (with the same partner) and still are.

Catalina

And with your lit experience Cat .. I'll bet you have heard 20 vanilla relationship sob stories for every one I have. What do you think the ratio is compared to the ones that succeed?

100:1 maybe...

sorry doll I know your a romantic... but it is what it is.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And with your lit experience Cat .. I'll bet you have heard 20 vanilla relationship sob stories for every one I have. What do you think the ratio is compared to the ones that succeed?

100:1 maybe...

sorry doll I know your a romantic... but it is what it is.

Hmmm, have to tell you I am not a fan of being referred to as 'doll', especially from someone who doesn't know me (and if you knew me, you would know I am not into sob stories, vanilla or D/s which often doesn't win me brownie points, but hey, I say what I think, though usually with better intentions than some believe)...that aside, I don't think I am a romantic. As far as I see these days, vanilla, D/s, casual or hopefully permanent, most people have the view that relationships are disposable and few see any point in why you should work at one, even if it was good in the past. Like all things in this place in time, relationships have become disposable and replaced with greed, self importance, immediate gratification, shallow emotions, and little commitment. Fortunately for me, I met someone who pretty much shares my views and does not see a relationship commitment as something which can come and go with the mood, and be thrown in the bin when everything is not picture perfect like in the romance novels. Any relationship requires work, if someone isn't prepared to put in that work they should steer clear of getting too involved and/or promising things they never can deliver.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

This is a subject that fascinates the heck out of me. I have tried to understand it with my sub partners that are married. Generally it does not make logical sense to me at all. But generally it has been my experience that the answer to your question is NO.. she will never see you as a Dom.

I ask a ton of questions of my subs about there marriage/ husband relationships and responses to the question of.. Why don't your ask your hubby to do this(This being anything she finds exciting) range from..

Hell NO are you freaking crazy.. (the most common answer)

to..

I have and he has tried ... but its about as exciting as taking out the trash.

It has something to do with expectations of an established personality. She sees you as a friend, a good all round guy.. father of her kids perhaps. But she is looking for the bad guy.. perhaps someone that frightens her a little. And it excites the heck out of her. Its really hard to fill both rolls.

Wish I had better news.. but it is what it is.

After reading the opening post of your personals thread - "Looking for a discreet moment in time?" -
it doesn't surprise me that you would glean this perspective from the type of women who answer your ads.

However, not all BDSM practitioners view D/s as a means to have "a little fun, to be controlled by master without impacting on her life."

I am not saying that your view is wrong in the absolute, but rather that it is skewed by your own preferences and by the company you keep.

 

[bubbliebabs]

I have a situation almost like yours, yet I am the wife. We have some experiences that new things were tried and I totally enjoyed...but when hubby tries, it isn't the same, nor do I want it to be. Adventure in our bedroom is fine and wonderful, but things that have happened on our encounters with others, is what I want it to be...with others. I enjoy our sex that we have together or I wouldn't be with him...and the playing we do I want it to be playing and not become regular.

Does your wife really want to be Dom and Sub within your relationship, or does she enjoy it with others as a thrill on occassion? Maybe she is happy with your sexlife the way it is and doesn't really want to do that role playing.....

 

[Ice2000]

By the way, I have to wonder if this, presuming it is true, could be reflective of a lack of support for this conversion from the BDSM community. It doesn't take much imagination to discern why members of the BDSM community would be more likely to advise replacement than repair.

I think you give the BDSM community way to much credit with regard to how they affect relationships Marquis. This goes a lot deeper than that.

This is honestly a mental thing in a sub's head. Something they cannot communicate to there life partner in a million years. They can love him/her to death but can't share those dark secrets.


JMohegan , you make a good point. I'll be interested to see how many folks there are on Lit that changed there lifestyle from Vanilla to BDSM. I would assume Lit would be there first stop if trying to get educated to the lifestyle.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'll be interested to see how many folks there are on Lit that changed there lifestyle from Vanilla to BDSM. I would assume Lit would be there first stop if trying to get educated to the lifestyle.

I'll leave the other comment to CutieMouse as she handled it well. As to this one, I think you assume too much. I for one found Lit after I was in my lifeterm M/s relationship and married to F, so I had already educated myself and been educated from a variety of people and sources way before coming here. It was the first forum I ever visited or participated (on anything) in before though. It is a good source of information, but like all subjects in life, it is wise to draw from a variety of views and experiences before forming any concrete thoughts...and even then they can sometimes change. The one thing I don't see changing for me is my need to be in a D/s relationship which is way beyond play level.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

my wife and I have been going thru some changes in our sex lives lately (all for the good). We have started experimenting with some things together and apart. Together we are bother pretty equal and switch roles easily. She enjoys being s to me as I do for her, but in she seems to not be able to respect my position when playing. While I on the other hand, while we are playing give her D position the respect I think it warrants. She has been playing online with others (with my full knowledge and permission) In these she is a very compliant s and has no problem playing along. I would like for her to at least respect my D position while playing the same way.

In my opinion, both RJ and Marquis have given you some great advice here.

And for what its worth, over the years I have known many (and personally helped quite a few) long-term couples who shifted from non-kinky to D/s. It is possible to make that change, and sustain it as well.

It seems to me that you've got an additional challenge in dealing with the mental aspects, though, since you switch back and forth between you as D & her as s, and her as D & you as s. There are a few people on this board with that type of experience within a single relationship; I'd be interested to read their comments on how to shift gears successfully this way.