Oh this is lovely another NYTimes article

Azwed

Invading Poland
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Here is the URl if you have an account with NYTimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/15/national/15BAPT.html?todaysheadlines






Baptist Pastor Attacks Islam, Inciting Cries of Intolerance
By SUSAN SACHS


prominent Southern Baptist pastor caused protests this week with a speech condemning American religious pluralism and calling the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, a pedophile.

Critics said the remarks by the Rev. Jerry Vines, pastor of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Fla., and a past president of the Southern Baptist Convention, illustrated how hate speech against Muslims had become a staple of conservative Christian political discourse. The speech also briefly united Muslim and Jewish groups in outrage over what they called the Baptists' intolerance of other religions.

Mr. Vines called Muhammad a "demon-possessed pedophile," asserting that his 12th and final wife was a 9-year-old girl, and declared that Muslims worshiped a different God than Christians.

Speaking to fellow pastors on Monday at the Baptists' annual convention in St. Louis, Mr. Vines said pluralism wrongly equated all religions.

"Allah is not Jehovah," The Associated Press quoted him as saying. "Jehovah's not going to turn you into a terrorist that will try to bomb people and take the lives of thousands and thousands of people."

Open scorn for Islam has become a staple ingredient in the speeches of conservative Christian leaders since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The Web sites of the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the Christian Broadcasting Network, run by Pat Robertson, have articles that purport to explain Islam. Mr. Robertson, in his television speeches, has called Islam a religion that seeks to control, dominate or "if need be, destroy" others.

The Southern Baptist Convention, with an estimated 16 million members and an active political lobby, has long provoked public protests with its views condemning homosexuality and its open proselytizing of Jews and members of other religions.

But the attack on Islam by one of its best-known pastors could have wider political repercussions.

"It matters a great deal, because it's the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, and one that is particularly politicized these days," said John C. Green, the director of the Ray Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at the University of Akron.

Many in the evangelical Christian community truly believe that Islam is wrong, Mr. Green said. They have been uncomfortable with the Bush administration's efforts since Sept. 11 to emphasize that the United States does not consider Islam an enemy.

"Evangelicals, including the Southern Baptists, have been very strong supporters of President Bush and he has tried hard to appeal to them," Mr. Green said. "But at the same time, Bush has tried hard in his foreign policy to maintain good relationships with moderate Muslim countries."

Southern Baptist leaders defended Mr. Vines, saying his statements were based on his research into Islam, although many Muslims have said that his views are inaccurate.

Barrett Duke, vice president for research for the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said the comments reflected Mr. Vines's personal convictions.

President Bush spoke by satellite to this week's Southern Baptist meeting, praising the group as the "earliest champions of religious tolerance and freedom." There was no indication in his remarks that he was aware of what Mr. Vines had said about Islam the evening before.

Still, civil rights groups have called on Mr. Bush to distance himself publicly from Mr. Vines's comments.

"He should not embrace leaders whose message is based on sowing intolerance," said Ralph G. Neas, president of People for the American Way, a liberal lobby in Washington.

Criticism of Mr. Vines's statements also came from the Anti-Defamation League, which has urged religious tolerance but has also refused to work on civil rights issues with national Arab- and Muslim-American organizations because of disagreements over the conflict between Israel and Palestinians.

"The reason we don't stand with the organizations is that they are hypocrites on terrorism," said Abraham H. Foxman, the national director of the league.

Salam al-Marayati, director of the Muslim Political Affairs Council in Los Angeles, said he was gratified in any case for some Jewish support in protesting Mr. Vines's statement on pluralism.

"There has been a pattern of escalating hate speech toward Muslims, with people saying that Islam is an evil religion," Mr. Marayati said. "We have demanded that the administration repudiate those comments."

Muslim groups have also argued that actions by the Bush administration, especially those singling out Muslim immigrants for investigation and detention, have encouraged public hostility toward Islam.
 
Southern Baptists eat shit

Oh, please. Having grown up in the southeastern U.S. myself, I know first-hand what fanatical, small-minded bigots southern Baptists are. They truly are the scum of the earth. Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic-- you name it.

The irony is that the extreme right-wing "fundamentalist" Christians-- the ones who denounce the Islamic "fundamentalist" radicals and "terrorists" the most loudly, and essentially call for a Crusade against them-- have a lot in common with the Islamic extremists. Both are anti-women, anti-gay, anti-sex even.
 
Ackk I agree with redwave and I think this is the second time today.

I am going to the doctor I must have a fever.

You know when you aren't spouting crazy fanatical Anti-USA stuff you tend to make sense at least sometimes.
 
You guys!

Since when are fundamentalist of any kind non-inflammatory. If you're not with them then you’re wrong. There are more than enough examples of supposed "religious" people run amok.


Cam
 
Nice Av!

I like that new av, Cam. Azwed, I always make sense.
 
Re: Nice Av!

REDWAVE said:
I like that new av, Cam. Azwed, I always make sense.

you always make sense to yourself... the rest of us however.
 
Re: Southern Baptists eat shit

REDWAVE said:
Oh, please. Having grown up in the southeastern U.S. myself, I know first-hand what fanatical, small-minded bigots southern Baptists are. They truly are the scum of the earth. Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic-- you name it.

The irony is that the extreme right-wing "fundamentalist" Christians-- the ones who denounce the Islamic "fundamentalist" radicals and "terrorists" the most loudly, and essentially call for a Crusade against them-- have a lot in common with the Islamic extremists. Both are anti-women, anti-gay, anti-sex even.

ster·e·o·type, noun. An idea, expression, etc., lacking in originality or inventiveness . . . A simplified and standardized (often false) conception or image of a group or person.

fuck·tard, noun. See REDWAVE.

This has been a public service brought to you absolutely free.

TB4p
 
redwave

I know first-hand what fanatical, small-minded bigots southern Baptists are.

That's a bigoted statement if there ever was one.
 
Really the problem is assholes. Somehow we have some sort of schizm in our thinking that any one religeon has more assholes than another, but I think really assholism is fairly evenly spread across all religeons. Baptists invidually can be okay. Just like muslims, individually, can be okay. There are asshole Jews. There are asshole Catholics. There are asshole Buddhists. There are asshole Pagans, although admittedly pagan assholery is somewhat more contained I think, since they have yet to be a dominating force. There are also perfectly nice people in all religeons. Hospitable, kind, generous, devout, loving, tolerant people.
 
Sillyman said:
Really the problem is assholes. Somehow we have some sort of schizm in our thinking that any one religeon has more assholes than another, but I think really assholism is fairly evenly spread across all religeons. Baptists invidually can be okay. Just like muslims, individually, can be okay. There are asshole Jews. There are asshole Catholics. There are asshole Buddhists. There are asshole Pagans, although admittedly pagan assholery is somewhat more contained I think, since they have yet to be a dominating force. There are also perfectly nice people in all religeons. Hospitable, kind, generous, devout, loving, tolerant people.

Very true.
 
Reverse world

In the bizarre, reverse thinking of the right-wingers, those who are against bigotry are called "bigots," while excuses are made to cover up for the real bigots . . .
 
Re: Reverse world

REDWAVE said:
In the bizarre, reverse thinking of the right-wingers, those who are against bigotry are called "bigots," while excuses are made to cover up for the real bigots . . .

redwave, you make my day.
 
Re: Reverse world

REDWAVE said:
In the bizarre, reverse thinking of the right-wingers, those who are against bigotry are called "bigots," while excuses are made to cover up for the real bigots . . .

Reminds me of the scene in "Little Big Man" where Little Big Man tells Custer that there's a whole bunch of Indians over the hill. Then Custer sits there and uses circular logic inorder to determine that Little Big Man is lying to him and he charges forth.

Funny.

Ishmael
 
Sillyman said:
Really the problem is assholes. Somehow we have some sort of schizm in our thinking that any one religeon has more assholes than another, but I think really assholism is fairly evenly spread across all religeons. Baptists invidually can be okay. Just like muslims, individually, can be okay. There are asshole Jews. There are asshole Catholics. There are asshole Buddhists. There are asshole Pagans, although admittedly pagan assholery is somewhat more contained I think, since they have yet to be a dominating force. There are also perfectly nice people in all religeons. Hospitable, kind, generous, devout, loving, tolerant people.

You are obviously aware of the secondary definition of "fundament".
 
It seems to me that your experience growing up in that part of the country brought you in contact with some real bigots and you have adopted your thinking to thier ways...

I grew up here in the Bible Belt/Wheat Belt and we were taught that Southern Baptist meant black...
 
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