Offend-O-Metering: U.K. vs. States

[Guest]

Below you will see what incited this idea, with Ogg eventually suggesting a thread. He also mentioned including France but I think that's a bit much, officially anyway. However, I hope other represented countries, nations, ethinically identified persons/groups, etc. (e.g., Swedish girls) would join in with their deviating habits.

p.s. this should be a fun thread for all concerned and going off-track is welcome, i.e., hi-jacking allowed.

p.p.s. I understand the American H. Potter books are edited so that American kids don't get confused over certain Britishisms.

p.p.p.s. another example: bonnets and boots vs. hoods and trunks of moving vehicles.


> Perdita to Ogg:
Where can I get one of these offend-O-meters? I need one for my real life. Is there a difference between the U.K. and American kind; i.e., like miles and kilos?
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Ogg's respose:
Yes there is a considerable difference between UK and US meters.

UK ones do not register smoking in public.

C**p is seen as a basic comedy thread.

Sexism is still rampant - for both sexes.

Political correctness registers high as being offensive unless intentionally self-parodying e.g Manholes are still manholes because an ardent feminist said that "Manholes should not be named personholes unless women express an overwhelming desire to climb down into sewers and shovel shit."

The Chairman of a meeting or a Board of Directors can be female and can be addressed as "Chairman" or "Madam Chairman" without offence.

Carry-On films and the Benny Hill Show are still funny and not offensive.

There are actors and actresses, and jokes about what the actress said to the Bishop.

To conclude, the UK version barely registers many things that would send the US version off the scale.
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[Chicklet]

Are we trying to list things that offend us?

 

[Guest]

Chicklet: things that offend Americans but not UK people, and vice-versa. Those were examples Ogg gave; e.g., his folk aren't as PC as "us".

Plus anything else - like what the US and UK consider "football".

 

[Chicklet]

Well I just have to say that I have no idea what would offend people in the UK. I've only been to London, and only for a couple of weeks...

Most people in the US are offended by the word "Fags"

That's all that I can think of...

 

[Guest]

I use the word fag with my fag friends and British friends who smoke.

I'd like to hear more from the Brits (including Englishman Earl).

For the moment I want to know what a man in Englad means when he says he wears a jumper.

P.

 

[oggbashan]

Football etc.

Football (soccer) fans are easy to offend.

Millwall supporters have a car sticker "Everyone hates us. We don't care."

To suggest that a particular team is useless is likely to offend someone.

I don't want to start a debate on this, but abortion although heatedly discussed, registers less on the meter over here.

Smoking is an obvious difference. Restaurants have small "No smoking areas." There are a few that are totally non-smoking but they are an exception. Public houses might have no-smoking areas but most of my local pubs have signs "Smoking is permitted throughout."

France has banned smoking in bars. If such a law was passed in the UK it would probably be obeyed but the Government would lose the next election. In France they have the law but no one obeys it.

Sexist behaviour is common and only becomes news when someone claims sexual harrasement at work as a reason for leaving a job. Builders still whistle at passing women. Now women sometimes whistle at passing builders.

Cruelty to animals in this pet-loving nation is so common that nearly every town has a dogs' home for abandoned dogs. They don't have as many childrens' homes for abandoned or mistreated children.

Racial and cultural differences are generally tolerated but there are small areas in big cities where racial tension is high. Black/white or Asian/European marriages are common. Kids don't see anything wrong in having a friend with a different colour skin and inviting them home.

Death is high on the meter.

No one suggests that Darwin was wrong or that the world was created in 4004BC.

I'll try to think of other differences.

Og

 

[Chicklet]

okay here's something that offends me (no offense)

all those things you mentioned, og, that you think the US feels...Well as an american citizen (unfortunatly) I am offended that you think that badly of us. I know tons of multi-racial married people. my cousins, for instance. three of them. I never had a problem having a friend of a different race coming home with me. My Grandmother talks about my dad having friends of different races coming home and how she didn't see any problem with it (brought up when we were discussing racism)

So I guess it really offends me if people suggest that I'm racist...

 

[patrick1]

Could this be something for the offend-o-meter? How easily are Americans or Britons offended by implied criticism of them?!!

Og and I move in different circles, though I'm broadly in accord with him...I see less sexism around me than he does, and rather more racism...but that could be just because of where we live (I'm in Yorkshire)...

In my perception American public taste is more prudish.

Britons are more likely to wince when God is invoked.

We are less offended by our teams or atheletes losing, because they lose more often than Americans do, and we have to come to terms with that...



p

 

[TheEarl]

Perdita's picked up on one of my pet peeves: I hate being identified as British - I'm English goddammit and proud of it. If a certain Swedish member of the board checks out this board from a London cybercafe, can she tell me if she'd be offended by being identified as being European rather than Swedish?

Bollocks is one of my favourites, because, as far as my information goes, Americans have no idea what it means or how rude it is. It literally translates as testicles and is either used as a curse (Oh bollocks!) or as an expression of disbelief (Bollocks you slept with Kim Basinger!).

In England they show new Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes twice, once in full and secondly with an American edit removing all of the beheading and swearing so that it can be shown at 6.00 Saturday afternoons. However the American edit completely misses every time Spike says 'Bollocks.'

It amuses me.

The Earl

 

[Chicklet]

re: bollocks

hey, I use that word.

I wonder what offends the canadians?

 

[MathGirl]

Re: re: bollocks

I wonder what offends the canadians?

Warm weather? They sure aren't offended by US Dollars.
MG

 

[TheEarl]

Re: Re: re: bollocks

Warm weather? They sure aren't offended by US Dollars.
MG

That'd probably do it . The one thing I learned during my travels in Canadaland was that the sure-fire way to piss off a Canadian is to mistake him for an American. They get quite annoyed.

The Earl

 

[Guest]

Re. Chicklet's offense at being thought of as racist and Earl-the Englishman:

There are more racist Americans than not. I, my family and millions of the now majority of 'Hispanics' know this. It's not up for discussion with me. I could only live on either northern coast, or possibly Chicago. So, of course one cannot put all Americans in one basket or lump, what have you. But our diffferences are aparent, esp. through the media and that is what I'm interested in learning about.

I myself resent being called a Yank. I know it generally means being from the U.S., but it means something different to Southerners, and to me a Mexican.

I resent the term American because generally it is used to mean the U.S. (as used by the U.S. govt.) Mexican citizens and all of South America's are "Americans", but not if you listen to any U.S. news.

 

[Guest]

In my perception American public taste is more prudish.
Britons are more likely to wince when God is invoked.

Yes, this is so true, absolutely true. Except in my neighborhood.

Earl's Buffy comments apply to Absolutely Fabulous runs here. I used to watch it with an Aussie friend who was stunned at what was snipped out here, and on a cable-station no less.

Perdita the non-Puritan

 

[oggbashan]

Location, location

okay here's something that offends me (no offense)

all those things you mentioned, og, that you think the US feels...Well as an american citizen (unfortunatly) I am offended that you think that badly of us. I know tons of multi-racial married people. my cousins, for instance. three of them. I never had a problem having a friend of a different race coming home with me. My Grandmother talks about my dad having friends of different races coming home and how she didn't see any problem with it (brought up when we were discussing racism)

So I guess it really offends me if people suggest that I'm racist...

My view of the US is coloured (no pun intended) by my eldest daughter's experiences as an au pair in Chicago. She lived in an up-market suburb but went to classes on the South Side. Both locations did not have multi-racial marriages. Then she went with the family to Kentucky where who your parents were, and whether you were "old" or "new" money, was more important.

My sister in law lived in Brixton (London) at the time of the riots yet she had no difficulty in leading a normal life.

I have a mixed race great-niece and my eldest daughter's significant other is West Indian black and built like an Abrams tank. He is the butt of jokes like "I wouldn't want to meet you in a dark alley" and is his village cricket team's demon bowler. 300 pounds of extremely muscular West Indian hurling cricket balls at 100 mph intimidates most batsmen. He's not so great with the bat. He breaks 2 or 3 each season.

The US is a large country. The UK is a very densely populated country. What is acceptable in some parts is not in others.

Even in the UK there is racial tension between the English, the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish and Ulster. I am a Londoner by descent for 600 odd years but born in Wales because of WWII. The family lived in the City of London all that time and still has important links to the City. London is different from the rest of England, and the City of London is different from the rest of London. The Queen and Prime Minister have to ask the Lord Mayor's permission to enter the City. I bet the Mayor of New York would like that power.

One thing I find offensive here is the use of the Stars and Bars (the Confederate flag). Here it is used as a covert racist symbol yet my understanding of the American Civil War was that it was about the rights of the states to secede, and slavery was not the main issue. Am I right?

Og

 

[oggbashan]

Jumpers

For the moment I want to know what a man in Englad means when he says he wears a jumper.

P.

Normally he means a knitted woollen garment with long sleeves and a V neck. Not to be confused with the other knitted garment, a cardigan, which buttons down the front, has patch pockets and is associated with men who wear plaid slippers and smoke a pipe in front of a coal fire.

Women can wear jumpers. Skinny jumpers emphasise the boobs. In the fifties and sixties young women wore "Twin-sets". A cardigan over a jumper, usually with a necklace of pearls. A tailored tweed country skirt and sensible shoes completed the outfit. Very "Mumsy" and boring.

As worn by girls in "Pleasantville".

Og

 

[TheEarl]

JOI: How many Americans understood what bollocks was before I explained it?

The Earl

 

[Guest]

Bollocksy, Mississippi

O, no, you mean bolls. I knew, from the Sex Pistols a few eons ago.

We have Irish and English pubs aplenty here, and the 'natives' to go with them so probably it's common knowledge.

A few blocks from my flat is a place called The Dog's Bollix.

OGG: thanks. Here a jumper is a woman's garment, like a dress without sleeves to wear with shirts or sweaters underneath. I wore one as a uniform in primary school. So I hate jumpers.

 

[sirhugs]

being Canadian, half of us are offended by everything both Americans or Brits find offensive.

The other half are offended by nothing.

 

[Guest]

O, Canada...

Knaughty: I love Canadians; grew up in Detroit across the river from Windsor, and have friends on the W. coast.

My favorite Canadian: Glenn Gould

 

[Chicklet]

JOI: How many Americans understood what bollocks was before I explained it?

The Earl

<raises hand>

 

[Guest]

riots and Dixie

My sister in law lived in Brixton (London) at the time of the riots yet she had no difficulty in leading a normal life.

I lived in Detroit during the 1966 race riot less than a mile from 12th St. (the main area if it). I left town.

One thing I find offensive here is the use of the Stars and Bars (the Confederate flag). Here it is used as a covert racist symbol yet my understanding of the American Civil War was that it was about the rights of the states to secede, and slavery was not the main issue. Am I right?

Ogg, I won't answer this question for fear of this thread becoming way too serious. But it is interesting to me that racists in England have taken the confederate flag for their symbol, just as skinheads here use the swastika.

 

[oggbashan]

Jumpers

OGG: thanks. Here a jumper is a woman's garment, like a dress without sleeves to wear with shirts or sweaters underneath. I wore one as a uniform in primary school. So I hate jumpers.

Your jumper is "our" pinafore dress and is still common for girls' school uniforms.

Og

 

[Guest]

HMS 'Pinafore' ?

I am ignorant of G&S, so tell me what the jumper is in "Pinafore".

 

[oggbashan]

Pinafore

"Pinafore" in HMS Pinafore is an apron that is pinned in front of a woman's dress to protect the dress when cooking etc. A pinafore is an essentially feminine garment. Aprons were (and still are locally) worn by both sexes. So we have carpenters' aprons, blacksmiths' aprons (made of heavy leather) and nurses' aprons. Hostess and French maids' aprons are for show, not use.

The pinafore as in Pinafore dress became a wrap round garment for full protection of clothing. Pinafore dresses protected the lighter coloured clothing underneath. Pre WWI schoolgirls wore white pinafores over their street clothing while at school. The pinafore covered front and shoulders and buttoned across the back. That developed into the pinafore dress which used to button or zip down the front for easy removal to change out of uniform for sports or as soon as reaching home. Most modern pinafore dresses are loose and shift-shaped, hanging from the shoulders. All types of pinafore are sleeveless.

"Pinafore Punishment" or "Petticoat Punishment" was a rare but not unusual punishment for boys in the 1930s. The boy had to wear a girl's pinafore or change his shorts for a skirt and petticoats. It was intended to shame him into being more considerate to his sisters or to punish him for being un-masculine. It is now a minor fetish.

Back to G&S. HMS Pinafore was a most unlikely name for a warship although the Royal Navy has had some weird names for warships in the past.

Hope that helps.

Og

PS Of course, until the 1900s boys were dressed the same as girls until about aged 5 when the boys were "breeched". So a boy wearing a pinafore or skirt could be for being too "childish". Up to the 1930s it was not unusual for boys from very poor families to wear their elder sisters' outgrown clothes because male ones could not be afforded. Those boys had to be tough to stand the jibes from their peers.