Off topic and lost.

[intrigued]

I'm trying so hard.


I've been reading...just sitting here reading and crying, and trying to articulate feelings that I just can't, not even to myself.
I thought reading your words would help me and some of you really have, you've touched me deeply with your bleeding hearts. But mostly, i am just wanting to rage and scream and bash my computer with something that will shatter it, because some of you just don't get it. I will never understand why....I am sick at heart.


So, my mind is trying to focus on something else. It's this...I keep noticing here the comment "never apologize for your feelings/posts". Regardless of what posts I am referring to, and I assure you, they were stunning to me, I just wonder what you think about that comment?
Do you think just because we feel something, we are right? Do you think there is no room for apology, when our words hurt, or are misunderstood, or just plain insensitive and thoughtless? Do you think there is nothing to be gained by discussing something in hopes that maybe a little lightbulb moment might occur somewhere for someone and possibly, just maybe, something better comes of it?

For me, communication is big stuff.
Just because I feel something, does not make it right. Just because I know what I mean, doesn't mean that YOU do. I feel obligated to go at it until i feel good inside about my feelings, and that I have expressed myself adequately, and without offending or hurting another, until I reach a place of peace within, and a bit of understanding/agreement with another. I know it's going to happen, that is reality. But I'm talking about more than that, because I think it matters what we do once that happens...do you?

I think if we live in a world so self absorbed with our own feelings without a little space for someones elses perspective, that we live in a dark world of solitude.

Stagnant.

I want to push my mind, and my heart. I don't want to be a ridged, locked up person that can't let a little light in, even if that light screams at me "you're wrong."

I disagree with the statement "never apologize for your feelings or your posts". Can you tell me why I'm wrong?

 

[weed]

You're not wrong. It comes down to respecting your fellow man the way you expect to respected. There is absolutely nothing wrong with courtesy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with disagreement but it doesn't have to be rude. Rudeness lowers the quality of the discussion.

I think some people use the anonymity of the Board to be impolite in ways they wouldn't dare in real life. Then again, some people may just be real life assholes.

Don't let them get to you. That's how they win

 

[LadyG]

Just because I feel something, does not make it right. Just because I know what I mean, doesn't mean that YOU do. I

I think you answered your own question.

As long as posts or comments are not forumlated with the intent to be inflammatory or derogatory, you shoudn't apologize for your feelings or thoughts.

 

[bknight2602]

intrigued I don't think it is correct to never apologize, maybe we weren't thinking or just blurted out without thinking. I have had several posts, where I misunderstood or were misunderstood and corrected those communications errors.
I along with you think communications is a big part of life and need to be clear concise and to the point. But we all do make mistakes, and it is ok to ask forgiveness.

 

[weed]

Reading that, perhaps I wasn't clear.

It can be hard to express yourself here, especially when there are is always someone to question you (it seems). And often question with what comes off as rudeness. There should always be room to explain yourself but when the rudeness is intended as so many posters seem to care less if they're offensive the way they say things then clarification becomes pointless. Don't let those ones get to you.

 

[mousetro]

I never right alot. I always right too the point I try too always be positive. I feel there is so much negative things said and done to us in our lives that we should not have to compound it by hurting others. If we all try to be a little bit kinder too each other then what a wonderful world we will have. I have yet to find negative things said to me personally here althought thats not to say people have not thought it. But I always like to make people happy, I love to make people smile . I guess thats my gift to this world.

 

[Guest]

intrigued

i think you have a very good point , sometimes people think very differant about things and disagree on things but if after some discussion you feel you are wrong you should be enough of a person to apologize and the other person should accept.i dont intend to step on anybody's toes about anything but as we all know with so many people here anything you say could offend somebody ,if that happens when i say some thing i hope they respond and i will discuss the issue till i , in my own mind am happy with the results even if it means i say i am sorry!!! sorry is a word that has too little use in the world today. hope your day goes better!!!

 

[intrigued]

Thank you, LG and BK. You gave me just the kind of reply I knew you would because I know YOU.

Let me be more specific...I am not talking about "troll" posts, I don't give those any attention whatsoever. I am referring to posts from members that I both don't know well, but see them around here and there, and members that I follow, that I like and admire, and then bam! Out of the blue they post thoughts that are really just stunningly offensive, self centered, and based upon things like dislike, jealousy, apparent thoughtlessness, and other negative behaviors, and then someone coming in and telling the poster "never apologize for your feelings".
It makes me come undone.

I have a standard of behavior that I have set for myself, but really, it is just me, it's who I am. I can respect that others approach this venue, and their personal life, differently. However, sometimes I am truly shocked by this statement that just because we feel or think something, it is right. How does this leave room for hope or growth or communication?
I've watched the offender take that statement and eat it up...and it just sickens me. It takes everything I have inside to not reply and speak my mind...what stops me in the end is the realization that I am really just wasting my time.
I lapsed once, and I regret not my words, but that I let it get to me to the point that I did, because I knew in my heart the poster was never going to see the light.
It closes doors.

What this comes down to is caring, and when I see words that hurt others, I care.
It tangles me up in a frustrating mix of caring about something that is a waste of time because the offenders just go on and on, and a rage that I can't stop them...and a desire to try to, anyway.
I just wish that we could see that we aren't always right just because we feel something inside us, that maybe theres a better view, that maybe if we listen, we just might find something better inside.

We CAN help eachother to think more. Those lightbulb moments are little beauties.

I think this is an amazing venue ripe with people from all over the world, so many perspectives, and cultures and feelings. What a shame it is when we can't open our minds a bit more and squeeze every drop out of this.

I'm very emotional right now, I hope I didn't ramble too much.

 

[LukkyKnight]

Your feelings are valid. The tricky bit is that the impact a post has on another generates valid feelings in them as well. So IMHO the point is that while one should not apologize for beliefs so long as one is open to examine them honestly, one still may wish, as a caring and empathetic human being, to apologize for the impact of one's actions on another.

It's always right to be yourself, intrigued, but that doesn't mean you have to pretend indifference to the reactions you evoke - finding a way to grow based on how others receive your messages is part of maturing as a human being.

 

[JerseyBoy]

I keep noticing here the comment "never apologize for your feelings/posts".

I think the people who say this place themselves on a pedestal. Why would they pass along such advice? If you say or do something stupid and offensive on purpose, then fine, stand by your words.

But often we regret what we say and do. Do people apologize because they fear the wrath of others? or because they are sorry?

I'd hate to think that everything I say forever describes who I am and the ideals i stand by...i too often say things before thinking.

The only reason I can see why these people give this advice is because they hate to see an arguement end.

of course, apologizing doesnt always mean you'll be forgiven...

 

[Saytur]

oops

 

[intrigued]

Your feelings are valid. The tricky bit is that the impact a post has on another generates valid feelings in them as well. So IMHO the point is that while one should not apologize for beliefs so long as one is open to examine them honestly, one still may wish, as a caring and empathetic human being, to apologize for the impact of one's actions on another.

It's always right to be yourself, intrigued, but that doesn't mean you have to pretend indifference to the reactions you evoke - finding a way to grow based on how others receive your messages is part of maturing as a human being.

From now on, I do believe I'll just PM you my thoughts for my posts, because my dear, you said it so well. Thank you.


ljmo...you are so right on, thanks, and its nice to see you.

JB...OMG...your words just gave me a lightbulb moment...brb, I need to PM Lukky!

(Actually, I need to do something, and I will brb.)

 

[LadyG]

Intrigued, I respect your thoughts and posts, I think you are an awesome lady.

Unfortunately, some people revel in the attention they get when they make the type of statements you are referring to and that is, unfortunately for them, their way of getting attention or accolades that they thrive on.

When I say never apologize for your opinions, I mean valid opinons, not ones clearly stated to incite people emotionally and cause discord. No amount of apologies can right that.

Just know that in you, in your heart and soul, that you are a better person and are above that.

 

[mousetro]

LG I could not agree with you more. I think we are on the same list.

 

[cutie pie]

Not that I have anything to offer other that what has already been stated. . . .

But, to me, the beauty of this is board is that I can work through thoughts and ideas and issues by expressing my thoughts and opinions and getting feedback from others. Yes, I have ranted and raved and vented - but never directly at anyone in particular, other than perhaps myself.

Bashing someone for their opinions, beliefs and thoughts is childish, immature and IMHO shows a complete lack of maturity. Making disagreements public knowledge is petty, as is the occasional cat fighting (all of this can and should be handled privately!). There are other ways to "enlighten" people without being insensitive or a bully.

intrigued. . .excellent threads lately. . .quite thought provoking.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Your feelings are valid. The tricky bit is that the impact a post has on another generates valid feelings in them as well. So IMHO the point is that while one should not apologize for beliefs so long as one is open to examine them honestly, one still may wish, as a caring and empathetic human being, to apologize for the impact of one's actions on another.

Ditto.

My advice generally is to apologize for not expressing my thoughts and feelings clearly enough, rather than apologizing for having those thoughts and feelings. Your opinion is always valid.

 

[Orwell84]

My two cents. There is nothing wrong with having feelings. My interpretation would be that no one should have to apologize for HAVING feelings. Your point however, Intrigued, I think is more about EXPRESSING those feelings.

In that regard, I think people should be able to express their feelings, but they should do so politely, and in a manner that is still respectful of others. If one's emotions get away, and something inappropriate is said, then that person should be big enough to make it right by admitting their mistake, and an apology is in order.

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: Off topic and lost.

I think the people who say this place themselves on a pedestal. Why would they pass along such advice? If you say or do something stupid and offensive on purpose, then fine, stand by your words.

But often we regret what we say and do. Do people apologize because they fear the wrath of others? or because they are sorry?

I'd hate to think that everything I say forever describes who I am and the ideals i stand by...i too often say things before thinking.

The only reason I can see why these people give this advice is because they hate to see an arguement end.

of course, apologizing doesnt always mean you'll be forgiven...

You said so much of merit!

With regard to saying something stupid and offensive and then standing by it...OK Cool...I'll try to learn to go on without feeling a response. It is afterall, my little red wagon that was tipped askew....

Your comments about why people apologize really got me thinking.
I almost wish it were that we fear the wrath of others, atleast on the surface, things would be a bit more pleasant.
But in reality, I think so many could care less about the wrath of others, other than to seek it out.
I think these people crave attention, and thats cool. But atleast realize that there are different kinds of attention....hmmmm....
I think what is even worse, are those that seek simply to incite others. They get nothing from me.

Now, what you said about what you say "forever describing" you, well, wow! That one stopped me in my tracks. First, in a sense it does....until and or unless you edit, apologize, or seek to further clarify. These words aren't going anywhere otherwise, and they will define you.
However, this is another of the benefits of these boards. Over time you can get a really good glimpse into someone through their good and bad times, their triggers, their issues and just where their heart and mind lies.. Over time.....


Its interesting that you feel they give this advice (to never apologize for your feelings) in an attempt to keep it going. I tend to agree, but still, I think there is more to it, and that is what troubles me.
I just wish some of those that I recall saying this would come in and respond. They have yet to.

Thanks JB...excellent!

 

[bknight2602]

Thank you, LG and BK. You gave me just the kind of reply I knew you would because I know YOU.

Let me be more specific...I am not talking about "troll" posts, I don't give those any attention whatsoever. I am referring to posts from members that I both don't know well, but see them around here and there, and members that I follow, that I like and admire, and then bam!
...........

I'm very emotional right now, I hope I didn't ramble too much.

I know how you feel, and I the same. When people hurt each other it is not a pretty thing. Hvae the patience to overlook them and go on, that is what I do.

we love you for who you are and what you believe.

 

[takingchances42]

Thank you for your words and thoughts once again, Intrigued. You are absolutely right. I, too, can think of a thread where someone did the equivalent of deliberately throwing salt water onto a raw wound. And justified it on the basis of that was how the poster felt.

That was just plain wrong.

But that does not need to matter for you and I or others today. You have a beautiful soul. Don't let the insensitivity of others hurt you or frustrate you. Today needs to be day of remembrance, not fighting. When tomorrow comes around, you will still be sensitive, giving, caring, and considerate of the feelings of others. Living that is what really matters.

 

[JerseyBoy]

Re: Re: Re: Off topic and lost.

Now, what you said about what you say "forever describing" you, well, wow! That one stopped me in my tracks. First, in a sense it does....until and or unless you edit, apologize, or seek to further clarify. These words aren't going anywhere otherwise, and they will define you.
However, this is another of the benefits of these boards. Over time you can get a really good glimpse into someone through their good and bad times, their triggers, their issues and just where their heart and mind lies.. Over time.....

Intruiged, I'm so glad my scattered thoughts came together to make some sort of impact on you

My thinking was mainly driven by RL...there is no edit button for words you say out loud. There have been very few times in my life that I regret what I've said, but there have been times.

The statement: "You said it so you must have meant it" is held sacred by some...and this is how I see their view of me slightly jaded by my own tongue. Since they would never say anything they didnt mean (and maybe never have), this judgement is passed on to others...

It's a statement you fight hard to ward off. The most truthful 'It just came out wrong' will never suffice no matter how much you know you didnt mean it...let alone trying to believe you ever said it.

These people won't hold it against you for the rest of your life and may never bring it up...but you know they still think it...and you are a bit sadder for it.

 

[intrigued]

Lady Guinevere, thank you, I appreciate that.
I agree that in some cases the motivation is attention, but as I said before, there is good attention, and there is bad attention. Atleast go for something that might give you (speaking in general) a bit more of a real benefit....perhaps thought provoking growth?

I totally agree that one should never feel a need to apologize for their convictions. However, they should not force these same convictions on another and belittle their convictions.

Moustro...yes, she said it so well.


cutie pie...thank you, and now we are really getting down to it. Maybe I am really screwed in my line of thinking, but can't we act like mature adults? This isn't high school....can't we fight and throw tantrums and be jealous and all this other stuff privately, or better yet, not at all?
I am not saying don't debate, thats exactly what I thrive on, it makes me wet...but can't we do it rationally, with composure and good taste?
I appreciate your kind words, and I want you to know that I was very ill yesterday, and it took me awhile to get to sending your movie, and after spending 35 minutes attaching it to an email, I found out it exceeded the space Yahoo allows, and it wouldn't attach. I'm sorry...do you have an IM's? I know I can send it in there.


pagancowgirl....I am in 100% agreement with you.

Orwell....exactly, we are on the same page.

Its so nice to know I am not the only one that feels this way.

I would still love to see someone that differs from me reply and explain why.

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Off topic and lost.

Intruiged, I'm so glad my scattered thoughts came together to make some sort of impact on you

My thinking was mainly driven by RL...there is no edit button for words you say out loud. There have been very few times in my life that I regret what I've said, but there have been times.

The statement: "You said it so you must have meant it" is held sacred by some...and this is how I see their view of me slightly jaded by my own tongue. Since they would never say anything they didnt mean (and maybe never have), this judgement is passed on to others...

It's a statement you fight hard to ward off. The most truthful 'It just came out wrong' will never suffice no matter how much you know you didnt mean it...let alone trying to believe you ever said it.

These people won't hold it against you for the rest of your life and may never bring it up...but you know they still think it...and you are a bit sadder for it.

Yes, it does sadden. This is when we have to rely on forgiveness, and acceptance of others for simply being human. We know the difference in good and bad intent, and we just have to say "OK...I know, I know", and just go on.

You have a good heart, and a wonderful mind, to me.

 

[april-wine]

When posting I try never to insult, (unless the thread starter desreves it ). But sometimes as can happen someone will not agree with my point of view, that's ok, it should lead to adult discussion. Unfortunately it sometimes leads to other things .

I don't think I need to apologize if my opinion was offered in an adult manner. I must admit however, if I hurt someone's feelings with anything I have said I would apologize. This is a place of discussion, of sharing, and of course sex...it is never my intention to insult.

 

[intrigued]

I know how you feel, and I the same. When people hurt each other it is not a pretty thing. Hvae the patience to overlook them and go on, that is what I do.

we love you for who you are and what you believe.

I try to go on, but still, it is so hard to see and feel.

Thank you, so sweet. (And I'm trying to not get any more emotional than I already am.)

tc42...
Today, and its remembrance is what prompted this thread, though I have been feeling this way for awhile now, as you know.
I sat stunned, just stunned and sickened by things I read here early this morning.
I couldn't give into it and react to it because my heart is elsewhere, and I'd rather leave it there. But still, it bothered me enough to wish to somehow stop it. This thread will do, for today.

You know, you are entirely loveable.

Thank you all....so much. I need to go for awhile, but please continue to share your thoughts if you'd like.