Obama: Disingenuous or a Liar?

[amicus]

The actions of the new President and his Cabinet demonstrate a spoken intention to, ‘transform’ America from its’ current state to something else.

What is that something else?

The so called Public Option in the Healthcare battle was not dropped; it was merely replaced by Nationalizing the Health Insurance Industry, similar to the Nationalization of the Banking system and the Automobile Industry.

Instead of the supply and demand of the market place determining the direction of business and industry, it is now a part of government policy as bureaucrats determine wages and salaries and whether a company remains in business as a ‘bailout’ or is left to go into bankruptcy.

It has been said a million times that Barack Obama is a ‘smart man’, an intelligent, well educated politician. Thus the question arises; is it merely disingenuous, withholding or not taking account of known information, giving a false impression of sincerity or simplicity…or is Obama an outright Liar, fully aware of the falsity of his claims?

Make your own decision by becoming aware of the promises and pronouncements concerning the cost of Healthcare, the deficit and the debt, the number of doctors and nurses needed to cover an additional 30 million people. The 159 new Federal Agencies that will be created to administer the new socialized medicine plan.

The cost of the new programs, even with CBO estimates; are the real costs being hidden or covered up?

Is he just a crook or an outright prevaricator?

Amicus

Edited to add: Just on the news, Senator Lindsay Graham stated that with the Student Loan program now completely taken over by the Federal Government as part of the new socialized medicine plan, every student will pay an added $1700-$1800 more to satisfy their loans.

Income for the Federal Government placed on the backs of college student. Just how humane is that?

 

[TE999]

The actions of the new President and his Cabinet demonstrate a spoken intention to, ‘transform’ America from its’ current state to something else.

What is that something else?

Is he just a crook or an outright prevaricator?

That 'something else' is nothing less than changing America from a Constitutional Republic to a Despotic (but oh so benevolent) Socialist Nation. This all in the name of 'fairness', 'equality' and 'social justice'. It is a transfer of wealth from the productive to the slothful, bringing health care to a singular level where everyone is provided for equally at the governments' whim, nationalizing what remains of America's heavy industries, controlling banks and insurance companies...in short, textbook Socialisim...Hugo Chavez will be proud.

If you believe what you're doing is right, then you aren't lying...obfuscating, but not lying. Taxes become 'contributions' or 'investments in America'...that sort of thing.

This is the person that enough Americans chose to lead us...whether they were dazzled, misinformed, ignorant of the facts or just plain wanted what the other person had and approved of legalized government robbery who can say...but we're all stuck for the moment.

The nation and the economy are like a supertanker or an aircraft carrier...they don't turn on a dime...so don't expect Hell or Utopia tomorrow now that some bills have been signed into law. There's time to wrestle this monstrosity to the ground, cut it's horns off and pull it's teeth.

The next round of elections will tell the tale of whether American's want to live in Freedom or in a Workers Paradise.

 

[amicus]

Permit me to disagree...this, plus Cap & Trade and the fact that no new energy sources are planned to come on line in the next ten years, will sound the death knell for freedom.

Keep your optimism high, Tom, I have seen this coming for a long, long time. Keep smiling but get a years worth of food and a means of keeping warm at hand along with a means to defend what you have.

The lights are already dimming.....heh, naw, just put on the wrong pair of glasses....

ami

Let me add that 14 States are filing lawsuits to challenge the Constitutionality of the just signed health bill as unprecedented and against the Sovreignty of States Rights.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Somewhere there's a conservative forum where you're lauding Obama to the skies.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Mon Ami,
Do you want some cheese to go with all that whine?
It's time for you to admit that a POTUS, and a mulatto POTUS at that, has finally changed this country for the better.....

So get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand,
Cos the times, they are a changing........

 

[amicus]

For all you socialist twats around here...what if your centerpiece legislation is fund to be Unconstitutional, thrown out, the Republicans take both House and Senate in November and Cap and Tax is shot down?

Will you smile and bend over?



ami

 

[TE999]

Permit me to disagree...this, plus Cap & Trade and the fact that no new energy sources are planned to come on line in the next ten years, will sound the death knell for freedom.

Keep your optimism high, Tom, I have seen this coming for a long, long time. Keep smiling but get a years worth of food and a means of keeping warm at hand along with a means to defend what you have.

The lights are already dimming.....heh, naw, just put on the wrong pair of glasses....

ami

Let me add that 14 States are filing lawsuits to challenge the Constitutionality of the just signed health bill as unprecedented and against the Sovreignty of States Rights.

I have made provisions for such eventualities should they arise.

If you recall, States Rights and Unjust Taxation were the primary issues that started the War of Northern Aggression (Civil War to you Yankees)...I don't see that of course, but maybe the states will finally get some backbone and tell Washington to buzz off.

It could happen.

 

[Dragonlipz]

For all you socialist twats around here...what if your centerpiece legislation is fund to be Unconstitutional, thrown out, the Republicans take both House and Senate in November and Cap and Tax is shot down?

Will you smile and bend over?



ami

Not for you......

 

[Dragonlipz]

I have made provisions for such eventualities should they arise.

If you recall, States Rights and Unjust Taxation were the primary issues that started the War of Northern Aggression (Civil War to you Yankees)...I don't see that of course, but maybe the states will finally get some backbone and tell Washington to buzz off.

It could happen.

Bring it on.....

 

[Pure]

la la land:

ami The actions of the new President and his Cabinet demonstrate a spoken intention to, ‘transform’ America from its’ current state to something else.

What is that something else?

The so called Public Option in the Healthcare battle was not dropped; it was merely replaced by Nationalizing the Health Insurance Industry, similar to the Nationalization of the Banking system and the Automobile Industry.
Instead of the supply and demand of the market place determining the direction of business and industry, it is now a part of government policy as bureaucrats determine wages and salaries and whether a company remains in business as a ‘bailout’ or is left to go into bankruptcy.


Pure: what is ami smoking? can't he turn off fox, and look out an ordinary newspaper, or go to a website:


citibank, third largest, for example remains privately owned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citibank

this is from its own website

http://www.citigroup.com/citi/press/index.htm
Prepared Testimony of Vikram S. Pandit Chief Executive Officer, Citigroup Inc. Before the Congressional Oversight Panel
Washington, DC – Chair Warren and members of the Panel, I am Vikram Pandit. I appreciate this opportunity to appear today as the Chief Executive Officer of Citigroup.

Citi today is fundamentally different from the company we inherited when I became CEO two years ago. The write downs Citi took during the financial crisis – together with concerns about the quality of some of our assets – led to questions about the Bank's financial condition. Now, as a result of the government's response to the crisis, our new team's focused strategy and the commitment of all our employees, I am pleased to say we are in a far different and much healthier position. Today, Citi is operating on a very strong foundation and is positioned to contribute to the economic recovery and generate sustained profitability for the benefit of all our stakeholders.

===
odd! no mention of nationalization!!

no banks were nationalized. but the ones in trouble, like Citibank, applied for tens of BILLIONS in loans from the gov, and of course, *on a short term basis* were given certain guidelines. seems rational and fair, no?

if you borrow 20 billion because you fucked up, the loaning agency is gonna want some *say* is the fixing of things, no?

once citi pays off its loan, it will continue to be privately owned and under NO extraordinary guidelines, as it is, for the time being.



banks not in trouble have continued as before.

 

[mynameisben]

Disingenuous is what one calls oneself when they know they are deceitful but cannot own up to being called a liar. Liar is what one calls oneself while they still cling to a thread of integrity.

 

[amicus]

Disingenuous is what one calls oneself when they know they are deceitful but cannot own up to being called a liar. Liar is what one calls oneself while they still cling to a thread of integrity.[/QUOTE]

~~~

I came back to the thread to copy and paste on my Tea Party page, and noticed mynameisben.....who is a new name to me... welcome to the forum, I wonder if you might expound a little more on your thoughts?

Amicus

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I think that just to prove a point all of the producers should just quit. Quit producing and live off the government dole. Let's just all sit back and watch those jackasses in Washington try to legislate their way out of that.

 

[TE999]

Anyone who's willing to rob Peter to pay Paul will get Paul's support (or vote).

 

[Liar]

"Disingenuous or a Liar?"

Aren't liars disingenuous?

 

[Huckleman2000]

I think that just to prove a point all of the producers should just quit. Quit producing and live off the government dole. Let's just all sit back and watch those jackasses in Washington try to legislate their way out of that.

That would prove a helluva point to someone, anyway. Not sure how it could happen though. This isn't Iran. :caning:

 

[Huckleman2000]

"Disingenuous or a Liar?"

Aren't liars disingenuous?

I was expecting you to set us straight on this matter.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Being a politician, we know he is a liar. Being a Chicago pol., this is doubly so. He is also being disingenuous, but that's just an act.

For one thing, he said there would be no tax increase for working Americans, but he knew he couldn't live up to that. Most of you should have received pay checks or something similar by now. How does the withholding tax compare to last year? Mine has increased by about 8%.

The Big O also said he would be transparent in his dealings, but look at all the backroom deals that got Obamacare passed. I expect he will doublecross some of those who were given promises. That is what liars do.

 

[Carnevil9]

I don't blame Obama for being Obama. He is trying to do what he promised to do. You can't get much more honest than that.

I blame the American voters, who sent him there to do what he said he was going to do. The voters have abdicating their traditional role of self-reliant, authority-distrusting individualists. They seem to have chosen to become, instead, Euro-style serfs beholden to a benevolent (they hope) overlord.

Allah help us all......Carney

 

[Carnevil9]

I think that just to prove a point all of the producers should just quit. Quit producing and live off the government dole. Let's just all sit back and watch those jackasses in Washington try to legislate their way out of that.

That would make a great novel!......Carney (shrugging)

 

[DeeZire]

..For one thing, he said there would be no tax increase for working Americans, but he knew he couldn't live up to that. Most of you should have received pay checks or something similar by now. How does the withholding tax compare to last year? Mine has increased by about 8%. ...(

Box, my man, are you aware of the fact that ever since GWB started pissing our money away with his wars-of-choice and his tax cuts for the rich, our government has been running a deficit? How would you want us to climb out of our deficit? Hit on the Tooth Fairy? Ask Santa Claus for an early Christmas gift?

Have you ever heard of the term "personal responsibility?" The deficit is every American's personal responsibility. If you'd rather make your own contribution to lowering the deficit by dropping your Medicare and Social Security, I'm sure that could be arranged. Would that be better for you than a tax hike?

SS and Medicare are already responsible for something like 60% of government spending. There's nothing left to cut Box - unless you want to gut the military. So, tell us, how would you go about paying down the deficit if not with tax money? (As I mentioned earlier, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are off-limits.)

 

[Boxlicker101]

Box, my man, are you aware of the fact that ever since GWB started pissing our money away with his wars-of-choice and his tax cuts for the rich, our government has been running a deficit? How would you want us to climb out of our deficit? Hit on the Tooth Fairy? Ask Santa Claus for an early Christmas gift?

Have you ever heard of the term "personal responsibility?" The deficit is every American's personal responsibility. If you'd rather make your own contribution to lowering the deficit by dropping your Medicare and Social Security, I'm sure that could be arranged. Would that be better for you than a tax hike?

SS and Medicare are already responsible for something like 60% of government spending. There's nothing left to cut Box - unless you want to gut the military. So, tell us, how would you go about paying down the deficit if not with tax money? (As I mentioned earlier, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are off-limits.)

All I'm saying is that The Big O lied when he said there would be no tax hike.

The SS I receive is money I paid in over about a fity year period, and that my employers paid in and the interest on it. I pay income tax on 85% of it. Medicare premiums are withheld from my SS income and from that of my wife, and they used to be withheld from our paychecks. So far, we receive less in bennies than we pay in or have paid in, although I reralize that might change in the future.

I have not only heard of "Personal Responsibility" it has always been one of the guiding tenets of my life, which is more than I can say for the mindset of liberals, who tend to believe people are not responsible for themselves.

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]I have not only heard of "Personal Responsibility" it has always been one of the guiding tenets of my life, which is more than I can say for the mindset of liberals, who tend to believe people are not responsible for themselves.

Regurgitated stereotypes.
Some people believe "personal responsibility" includes responsibility to be a good citizen and to contribute to society. They know that life can be difficult, and will involve highs and lows, and having a safety net makes the society better for everyone, rich and poor alike.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Regurgitated stereotypes.
Some people believe "personal responsibility" includes responsibility to be a good citizen and to contribute to society. They know that life can be difficult, and will involve highs and lows, and having a safety net makes the society better for everyone, rich and poor alike.

That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Yes life is difficult. It's supposed to be. There is no way to make it easy. You live, you work, you die. If you don't work you just die sooner. If you don't want to die, you work.

You don't attach yourself to some government tit like a leach and pretend to live.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Obama Zombies conveniently ignore the reality that all money bills start in the House of Representatives; no President gets money or tax breaks for the rich without the House approving it first.