NYT Article Says Bi is a Lie

[fille]

ok, so maybe I missed some other discussion of this, but I would love to know what people think about this - an article in yesterday's New York Times details a study in which the researchers allegedly found that bisexual orientation does not really exist, at least in men. The study involved showing erotic videos to men who had identified themselves as gay, straight, or bisexual, and measuring their arousal response. The videos featured either exclusively women or exclusively men. The results showed that men who identified as bi didn't actually have arousal when looking at both types of videos. Mostly, they were "aroused" only by the videos of men, leading the researchers to conclude that they were actually gay.

So my questions:

What do you think of the conclusion that men who identify themselves as bi are actually gay, but are trying to kid themselves that they also like women?

Is it possible, as some of the self-identified bi men reported, that they are romantically interested only in women (with a corresponding interest in having sex with women), but also feel a need to have sex with men?

Do you think that the showing of videos featuring only men and only women is a flaw in the study? It occurs to me that a man who is bi might well have been aroused by viewing women and men together, but that mere lesbian action could have left the same man less than aroused.

 

[Never]

fille:
" What do you think of the conclusion that men who identify themselves as bi are actually gay, but are trying to kid themselves that they also like women?"

That wasn't the conclusion the scientist made.

" Is it possible, as some of the self-identified bi men reported, that they are romantically interested only in women (with a corresponding interest in having sex with women), but also feel a need to have sex with men?"

There are many types of people.

" Do you think that the showing of videos featuring only men and only women is a flaw in the study? It occurs to me that a man who is bi might well have been aroused by viewing women and men together, but that mere lesbian action could have left the same man less than aroused."

It's possible but then it makes me wonder why bisexual men wouldn't like said girl on girl action.

 

[bicuriousosaur]

This sounds like total bullshit to me. Science isn't what it's crack up to be anyway. I admit I am attracted to both, so, I know I am bisexual, no matter what some nerd says anyway. It's most how you feel.

 

[Mikijl Dragon]

I would be horrible for this study because some days women turn me on like a raging bull other days it might be a Man that gets me going. Sometimes both sometimes I just don't feel like sex at all.

Depending on my mood, I would totally flub their results.

 

[fille]

fille:
" What do you think of the conclusion that men who identify themselves as bi are actually gay, but are trying to kid themselves that they also like women?"

That wasn't the conclusion the scientist made.

Well, I admit paraphrasing the article, but it certainly seems to be at least a significant part of what they are saying:

"People who claim bisexuality, according to these critics, are usually homosexual, but are ambivalent about their homosexuality or simply closeted."

"The psychologists found that men who identified themselves as bisexual were in fact exclusively aroused by either one sex or the other, usually by other men."

"The study is the largest of several small reports suggesting that the estimated 1.7 percent of men who identify themselves as bisexual show physical attraction patterns that differ substantially from their professed desires."

'"I'm not denying that bisexual behavior exists," said Dr. Bailey, "but I am saying that in men there's no hint that true bisexual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation."'

 

[fille]

I would be horrible for this study because some days women turn me on like a raging bull other days it might be a Man that gets me going. Sometimes both sometimes I just don't feel like sex at all.

Depending on my mood, I would totally flub their results.

It seems to me that the study was very self-limiting - I imagine there are many people, gay, straight, or bi, whose sexual moods and desires fluctuate, just as yours do. I know that is true for me.

 

[taolanes]

Very interesting study. Never heard that before, but to me it sounds somewhat likely. I think a lot of people who say they are bi really feel they might be gay but find it very difficult to say "I'm gay."

I'm interested in seeing more of this study though. Were some "bi" men also aroused by women in porn?

 

[fille]

Very interesting study. Never heard that before, but to me it sounds somewhat likely. I think a lot of people who say they are bi really feel they might be gay but find it very difficult to say "I'm gay."

I'm interested in seeing more of this study though. Were some "bi" men also aroused by women in porn?

Yes, apparently there were a small number who were aroused by the female oriented porn, but they did not exhibit a similar response toward the male porn.

Interestingly, the article notes that other studies have found that there is evidence for bisexual arousal in women.

 

[Netzach]

How, I'd love to know, were they measuring arousal?

I would love to see all the bi men I know, love, and fuck suddenly disappear in a vacuum, scientifically proven not to exist.

Very silly stuff.

 

[Raimondin]

There will always be skeptics eveywhere and in eveything.

 

[Kaene]

As a bi male I would be willing to believe that there is some validity to the results. I've slept with my share of "bi" men, and I have to say more than a few just screamed denial. It may even be that I am gay and in denial, I don't know. But I would also be skeptical as to how all inclusive their conclusions seem to be.

I am married, I am attracted to women, emotionally and sexually. In truth I am not truly attracted to men, just their genitals. If I am seeking out a relationship, I seek women whole heartedly, when it comes to men I get periodic cravings for cock, that's it. I don't masturbate to gay porn cause it doesn't do anything for me, shemales are another thing but.... lol.

I think part of the issue is that something like ambiguous sexual prefferences are simply too complicated to be studdied with a control group. There are too many limiting factors to keep the results accurate... they can't show straight porn, because you can't tell whether a person is being turned on by the man or the woman or both, and you cant show transgender porn because you don't know whether it's the tits, cock, or both that are causing the arousal.

Which, and I hate to ramble, sorry, leads me to another thought. Pornography is about sex, there is no romance in pornography, no emotion, no depth, it's sex and only sex. So how is it possible to measure accurately the strength of a person's attraction to either sex based purely on physical charecteristics. Most of the bi men I've known who were truly bi in my oppinion, myself included, while attracted to women sexually are more into women on the emotional level while the homosexual end of their preferences tend to be much stronger, at least on a purely sexual level.....

Make any sense, or am I too drunk to be coherent?

 

[justchuckc]

NYT Article says.....

Yes the article is most certainly flawed. Damn,the $$$ these people spend on research. C'mon over to my house, bring a 12 pack of Sam Adam's relax and let's put your survey to the test.

 

[queen_of_cups]

I don't think that showing imagery of only men, or only women is necessarily the flaw, but as another poster stated, to me this is the sort of study one should do over time, because I'd agree that I tend to go in cycles about which sex I'm most attracted to at any given time.

Some days, it's men who do it for me, other days it's women, though there's a low-level baseline of general attraction to each for me on any given day. I find beauty in both the male and female form all the time, for example, but that's not necessarily -arousal-.

I also agree that simple visual imagery isn't really enough to get a whole picture, because attraction is so much more than just a reaction to a photo or video. Visual stimulus is -part- of it, but there's four whole other senses that aren't being tapped into, plus the mental attraction factor.

 

[Wolfman1982]

well the article makes me just think about a stupid friend i have , he says homosexuality and bisexuality is all in the head , and i just think what a stupid person he is . And he also thinks that gay men can be "reprogrammed" back to heterosexuality , and he is just so mindless stupid in his remarks , that it is just plain stupid.

sorry for this remark but the articky in NY times can kiss my big hairy arse.

 

[ohiobiguy]

I agree with what many of you have written. I am a married male who has, for as long as I can remember, been fully aroused by images of naked women and women having sex. Secretly, I also responded to cocks and males having sex, though I didn't want to accept that originally.

As I begin to explore my interest in m-m sex I have allowed myself to view and enjoy pictures and videos of naked men and male to male sex. Because my viewing is fairly new, it is particularly arousing to me. Probably about 70% of my masturbation is to pictures of cocks and m-m sex, because I find it particularly exciting and arousing right now. I still view many images and videos of women and still masturbate to orgasm while doing so.

Were I in that research project, my response to the "gay" videos would have been stronger probably than the "straight" videos, even though both arouse me fully. This doesn't mean I'm in denial...just that I'm excited about exploring a new aspect of my sexuality.

 

[fille]

How, I'd love to know, were they measuring arousal?


Very silly stuff.

Seems they had the unfortunate subjects' genitals wired to record their arousal. Seems they also believed that an erection is the be all and end all of male sexual response.

I agree; it's very silly stuff.

 

[fille]

I agree with what many of you have written. I am a married male who has, for as long as I can remember, been fully aroused by images of naked women and women having sex. Secretly, I also responded to cocks and males having sex, though I didn't want to accept that originally.

I worry that stuff like this will cause women whose husbands also have a sexual interest in men to conclude that hubby must be secretly gay. It's sure to cause a great deal of worrying, much of it probably needless.

 

[Ricwilly]

I don't read that newpaper.

 

[fille]

I don't read that newpaper.

Typically, I would consider it fairly gay/bi friendly, as newspapers go.

 

[Ricwilly]

I don't put a lot of stock in studies like this in general. I'd rather go by personal experience. If I had to pic a label I'd say I was bi tho I lean twoard liking women more. Still watching two lesbians tho nice to look at wouldn't nessicarily excite me as I couldn't relate, while watching two men would cause I could put myself in that senario. Doesn't mean I like men more than women, tho I like a cute guy now and then, but I digress. LOL.

 

[sweetsyn]

was anything said about the possibility of 'stage fright'. There are many more factors involved in attraction the visual attraction. My ex enjoyed porn videos or either kind, myself I could take or leave them. The participants could either have:
a) been too nervous knowing they were involved in a study to react as they normally would
b) been so obessed with making sure the results showed them as they wanted to be seen that they relied on mental imaging instead of visual to stimulate or NOT stimulate themselves
OR
c) were getting off on the whole experience

 

[Angel]

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/07/bisexuality-study-nyt-gives-prominence.html

 

[fille]

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/07/bisexuality-study-nyt-gives-prominence.html

Very interesting stuff. If true, it would certainly explain a lot, although it wouldn't explain why the NYT apparently didn't know of the researcher's biases.

It didn't all make sense though. I'm not sure that footnotes are the mark of good science.

 

[69forever]

How, I'd love to know, were they measuring arousal?

I would love to see all the bi men I know, love, and fuck suddenly disappear in a vacuum, scientifically proven not to exist.

Very silly stuff.

Heh, I'm not going anywhere.....even if they say I don't exist.

Like I'd let someone wire up my gonads Freaks probably got off on doing the whole thing. Science my fucking ass.

 

[lakritze]

Study on bisexuality.

I choose #3. When I first read about this,I thought there had to be a serious flaw in the study.It seemed to simplistic.What type of porn did they watch.Is it really true that most guys just salivate at anything sexual put in front of them.Most of the porn I have seen,I couldn't say I'd be interested in the guy or the girl.I have seen a few though where I'd like to get between the both of them.