Nurse Alex Wubbels

[Ramone45]

To summarize, the cops were chasing a car. That car slammed into a truck, severely injuring the driver. The cops wanted to find something on this innocent victim in order to cover their asses. This one cop in particular wanted Nurse Wobbles to draw blood on the innocent victim, who was severely burned and in a coma. He had already received narcotic analgesics, so a blood test would have been utterly meaningless. Additionally, the victim could not provide consent, nor did the police have a warrant.
Upon refusing Det. Jeff Payne's unlawful demand, he kidnapped Nurse Wubbels. There is no other way to describe what he did. He did not articulate a reason to detain her. He did not place her under arrest. He handcuffed her and forcibly detained her. He and his fellow officers then proceeded to mentally abuse her. This is a NURSE on duty in an Emergency Department!
Det. Jeff Payne committed an egregious crime. He must be immediately terminated and he must face the legal consequences for kidnapping Nurse Wubbels.
Something seriously need to be done about the police. A number of cops I've met seem stupid. Plus, it is time to hold cops personally liable for their actions. They must be treated like any other professional. They should put their personal assets on the line. They should have to carry professional liability insurance. The taxpayers should not have to bear the cost of their incompetence.

 

[FGB]

To summarize, the cops were chasing a car. That car slammed into a truck, severely injuring the driver. The cops wanted to find something on this innocent victim in order to cover their asses. This one cop in particular wanted Nurse Wobbles to draw blood on the innocent victim, who was severely burned and in a coma. He had already received narcotic analgesics, so a blood test would have been utterly meaningless. Additionally, the victim could not provide consent, nor did the police have a warrant.
Upon refusing Det. Jeff Payne's unlawful demand, he kidnapped Nurse Wubbels. There is no other way to describe what he did. He did not articulate a reason to detain her. He did not place her under arrest. He handcuffed her and forcibly detained her. He and his fellow officers then proceeded to mentally abuse her. This is a NURSE on duty in an Emergency Department!
Det. Jeff Payne committed an egregious crime. He must be immediately terminated and he must face the legal consequences for kidnapping Nurse Wubbels.
Something seriously need to be done about the police. A number of cops I've met seem stupid. Plus, it is time to hold cops personally liable for their actions. They must be treated like any other professional. They should put their personal assets on the line. They should have to carry professional liability insurance. The taxpayers should not have to bear the cost of their incompetence.

I'm sure there is an argument against what you suggest...

Personally, it looks like it may take me a few years to come up with it.

 

[Ramone45]

I'm sure there is an argument against what you suggest...

Personally, it looks like it may take me a few years to come up with it.

LOL. That's saying something. I try to consider both sides of an argument. In general, the nature of police work requires that we give them some degree of wiggle room. Very little. You might also say that making them personally liable would invite tons of frivolous lawsuits.
However, no one can deny that there are tons of problems. The intelligence of the average cop(half of them are below that average). The militarization of the force. The utter lack of accountability.
It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[adrina]

Many police officers across the country get less training than a manicurist.

That is not appropriate considering all they are asked to deal with.

The officers had no idea of what the actual policy was. Why not?

 

[Saint Peter]

There will be a lawsuit. Then training. Then another lawsuit. Then more training.

repeat

 

[RobDownSouth]

Something to think about....if a cop feels this nonchalant about "arresting" a white woman for noncompliance to his illegal demands in broad daylight while knowingly being filmed in public, imagine what he does to non-white women in dark alleys when there's no one filming.

Trump's Police State.

 

[Ramone45]

Many police officers across the country get less training than a manicurist.

That is not appropriate considering all they are asked to deal with.

The officers had no idea of what the actual policy was. Why not?

I think it goes beyond policy.Is it expecting an experienced detective to know that he can't draw blood on an unconscious person that has not been charged with a crime and for which he does not have a warrant too much? How did this detective not violate his oath.

 

[jaF0]

Is this a question? A statement? News story without a supporting link? Idea for a story?

 

[adrina]

I think it goes beyond policy.Is it expecting an experienced detective to know that he can't draw blood on an unconscious person that has not been charged with a crime and for which he does not have a warrant too much? How did this detective not violate his oath.

And what of the statement made from the department after this officer was put on admin leave?

Brown said the department has apologized and that its "blood draw policy" has been replaced with a new one that officers are now using.

His statement did not mention the policy that was in place at the time of Wubbels' arrest or why police would need a new one.

source

This is just a cluster fuck failure all around.

 

[Izadora]

If this had been a regular street cop, I could see him/her not knowing you had to have a warrant or permission from the guy to get a blood sample. It's not excusable, but maybe understandable if the cop is a rookie. Reading more about this case though, it definitely was a detective who had to work up to his rank. When you think of a detective, you think of someone who has to understand how the system works to follow the rules. I would think even if he had gotten his blood draw and found the guy to be intoxicated, the attorney would have gotten the blood draw thrown out since it wasn't legally obtained.

With all that said, if you live in a large city you probably always see the call to hire more police officers but also budget cuts. You're trying to do more with less and I'm guessing training is one of them.

 

[dolf]

Perhaps the problem (or part of it, is that over there policing tends to be local and political. When things are too local, bad work cultures are more easily continued, oversight becomes personal, cliques and coverups, blah blah blah. National standards of training, practice and policy could implement local law better, imho.

 

[Ishmael]

There will be a lawsuit. Then training. Then another lawsuit. Then more training.

repeat

And deservedly so.

Perhaps the problem (or part of it, is that over there policing tends to be local and political. When things are too local, bad work cultures are more easily continued, oversight becomes personal, cliques and coverups, blah blah blah. National standards of training, practice and policy could implement local law better, imho.

I hope that day never comes. And it will never quite work.

While I understand your sentiment the fact is that all the training in the world won't stop a cop that gets out of hand. They have to be dealt with on case by case basis. This case garnered notoriety because the cops were wearing lapel cams. Whereas before the case would have turned into a "he said, she said" situation, the evidence against the officer was right there in everyone's face.

Training is no replacement for accountability.

Ishmael

 

[Colonel Hogan]

To summarize, the cops were chasing a car. That car slammed into a truck, severely injuring the driver. The cops wanted to find something on this innocent victim in order to cover their asses. This one cop in particular wanted Nurse Wobbles to draw blood on the innocent victim, who was severely burned and in a coma. He had already received narcotic analgesics, so a blood test would have been utterly meaningless. Additionally, the victim could not provide consent, nor did the police have a warrant.
Upon refusing Det. Jeff Payne's unlawful demand, he kidnapped Nurse Wubbels. There is no other way to describe what he did. He did not articulate a reason to detain her. He did not place her under arrest. He handcuffed her and forcibly detained her. He and his fellow officers then proceeded to mentally abuse her. This is a NURSE on duty in an Emergency Department!
Det. Jeff Payne committed an egregious crime. He must be immediately terminated and he must face the legal consequences for kidnapping Nurse Wubbels.
Something seriously need to be done about the police. A number of cops I've met seem stupid. Plus, it is time to hold cops personally liable for their actions. They must be treated like any other professional. They should put their personal assets on the line. They should have to carry professional liability insurance. The taxpayers should not have to bear the cost of their incompetence.

As you noted, she was never arrested, and she was only in handcuffs about 20 minutes and never left the scene. A subsequent video showed her to be a very level-headed woman who apparently was not injured, which I fear means she will NOT sue that motherfucker for every dime he has or will ever earn.

This saddens me.

 

[Pookie]

Perhaps the problem (or part of it, is that over there policing tends to be local and political. When things are too local, bad work cultures are more easily continued, oversight becomes personal, cliques and coverups, blah blah blah. National standards of training, practice and policy could implement local law better, imho.

That's certainly part (bigger in some locations than others) of the problem. The way things are in the US, national standards are not very practical as a solution.

The most effective solution at this time (especially in this situation) is just what you're seeing - cameras. Privacy in public places is a thing of the past for most countries like the US.

Requiring body cameras for all cops is needed. Penalties for turning them off, etc. should be harsh (loss of pay and/or job). When police departments know they're going to be held accountable, positive changes occur.

 

[sweepthefloor]

I just found out about this last night thanks to got slushy, and I am pretty disturbed by the video.

I am really proud of the Nurse Alex for standing by the Hospital policy and advocating for her patient.

I doubt the nurse will sue, you can tell by the look on her face she is an innocent thing. I hope she files assault charges against him.

I can't even imagine how I would react in the same situation and I probably would not have remained as professional as Nurse Alex.

It's all over the nursing and medical internet now: a call to action. A few years ago some morning talk show host insulted nurses about using the 'Doctor's stethoscope." that shit didn't go away for years.

This situation is not going away for the Salt Lake City police department, until the officer's head is ran through the dirt and hoisted up on a virtual spike.

 

[adrina]

And deservedly so.



I hope that day never comes. And it will never quite work.

While I understand your sentiment the fact is that all the training in the world won't stop a cop that gets out of hand. They have to be dealt with on case by case basis. This case garnered notoriety because the cops were wearing lapel cams. Whereas before the case would have turned into a "he said, she said" situation, the evidence against the officer was right there in everyone's face.

Training is no replacement for accountability.

Ishmael

Sounds like he didn't get enough training on his way up. Heh.

But then let's be real we do have a problem with many in the police force. There is a definitive god complex among the ranks in that thin blue line.

I have a very strong hunch that if the victim were black that we would not be talking about personal accountability. I don't argue with the idea of cops being held personally accountable for their behavior. It's been a long time coming. But to not acknowledge the systemic problems is to bury one's head in the sand.

 

[sweepthefloor]

As you noted, she was never arrested, and she was only in handcuffs about 20 minutes and never left the scene. A subsequent video showed her to be a very level-headed woman who apparently was not injured, which I fear means she will NOT sue that motherfucker for every dime he has or will ever earn.

This saddens me.

I am sad too for the look on her face when she held the hospital policy in her one hand and her cell phone with the Supervisor in the other, and took a stand for what is right.

 

[Izadora]

Sounds like he didn't get enough training on his way up. Heh.

But then let's be real we do have a problem with many in the police force. There is a definitive god complex among the ranks in that thin blue line.

I have a very strong hunch that if the victim were black that we would not be talking about personal accountability. I don't argue with the idea of cops being held personally accountable for their behavior. It's been a long time coming. But to not acknowledge the systemic problems is to bury one's head in the sand.

You bring up an interesting and sad point. If the nurse had been black it could easily be a different conversation of respect for authority and her being "mouthy." Male nurses are also becoming more prevalent in the field. Would the situation have gone differently or our conversation? Sadly, it was the perfect storm of participants to bring to light either a lack of training or lack of caring of the law.

 

[sweepthefloor]

Sounds like he didn't get enough training on his way up. Heh.

But then let's be real we do have a problem with many in the police force. There is a definitive god complex among the ranks in that thin blue line.

I have a very strong hunch that if the victim were black that we would not be talking about personal accountability. I don't argue with the idea of cops being held personally accountable for their behavior. It's been a long time coming. But to not acknowledge the systemic problems is to bury one's head in the sand.

They are in the wrong playpen for the God Complex, that's best left for the Surgeons and Intensivists in the Hospital.

I don't think this is a training issue. I am pretty sure anyone with a brain knows: YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE NURSE.

I don't think it would have made any difference if the nurse were black, the outrage would be the same.

 

[Ramone45]

As you noted, she was never arrested, and she was only in handcuffs about 20 minutes and never left the scene. A subsequent video showed her to be a very level-headed woman who apparently was not injured, which I fear means she will NOT sue that motherfucker for every dime he has or will ever earn.

This saddens me.

This is one instance where I hope the blood-sucking lawyers get a hold of her and tell her she is CRAZY for not suing.

 

[sweepthefloor]

This is one instance where I hope the blood-sucking lawyers get a hold of her and tell her she is CRAZY for not suing.

I hope so too! She could retire! I am not even going to get into the fact that nurses are abused on the job, all the time. It's exhausting.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

They are in the wrong playpen for the God Complex, that's best left for the Surgeons and Intensivists in the Hospital.

I don't think this is a training issue. I am pretty sure anyone with a brain knows: YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE NURSE.

I don't think it would have made any difference if the nurse were black, the outrage would be the same.

The thing that drives me nuts is, what did this idiot think he was going to achieve? Did he actually think he was going to physically FORCE a health care professional to perform an invasive procedure against a comatose patient contrary to medical ethics which he could then actually use as criminal evidence?

And that he could actually place her in custody for no violation of any law whatsoever?

If there are two sides to every story, I'd sure as hell like to hear the second one in this case. Because I'm pretty creative, but I'm having a hard time coming up with the slightest credible narrative for this one.

 

[Jennifer]

With all of the hoopla about this RN being illegally arrested I want to point out that most likely while being detained she was thinking about the rest of her patients in the ED. Emergency rooms do not have extra RNs around waiting to pick up a patient load. The arresting officer put other lives at risk with his actions.

I'm tired of reading stupid comments about how she was resisting arrest. She was thinking of all of her other people who were sick, possibly dying, and they needed her care. I feel safe in saying that most RNs would agree with me. I'm disgusted that the officer was put on administrative leave and not immediately fired.
*Gets off soapbox*

 

[hsnh]

I bet the guy is now hanging out with the Psych team.
Because any way I looked at it, his judgment and behavior seemed too erratic.

It looks like a case of a guy who has problems of his own, not coping or whatever.
Whether the incident is symptomatic of a certain Police culture is more down on my list. It might well be the case too, but let's not generalize and paint them all with the same tar brush.

 

[Que]

Something I fantasize about....if a cop feels this nonchalant about "arresting" a white woman for noncompliance to his illegal demands in broad daylight while knowingly being filmed in public, imagine what he does to non-white women in dark alleys when there's no one filming.

Trump's Police State.

Story Ideas section is over there----->