Now this is interesting

[SeaCat]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-converter.htm

Read it and tell me what you think.

Cat

 

[voluptuary_manque]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-converter.htm

Read it and tell me what you think.

Cat

Watch closely. As soon as either Google or Berkshire Hathaway starts to sniff at it, buy!

 

[slyc_willie]

Reminds me of Brown's Gas, which essentially does the same thing, only it's cheaper to manufacture.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7274839338390470120&hl=en

Brown's Gas is produced by breaking apart the hydrogen and oxygen in water, then bringing them back together in a torch. the resulting flame is hot enough to disintegrate hard metals such as tungsten and, supposedly, titanium, without conducting heat. Very cool stuff.

 

[JackLuis]

This sounds promising for NYC and area where they dump at sea. All thoose resources going to wast polluting the ocean and how many power plants are in the NYC area?

If they coupled a brickyard and a cement plant which needs lots of heat It could be the source of building materials.

Interesting they used it to depose of sewage sludge. NYC is known for their sewers. It would be a good fit there and even if it didn't produce power like a big plant, it would make a nice distributed power source for local power if the main grid went down.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

This sounds promising for NYC and area where they dump at sea. All thoose resources going to wast polluting the ocean and how many power plants are in the NYC area?

If they coupled a brickyard and a cement plant which needs lots of heat It could be the source of building materials.

Interesting they used it to depose of sewage sludge. NYC is known for their sewers. It would be a good fit there and even if it didn't produce power like a big plant, it would make a nice distributed power source for local power if the main grid went down.

All they need to do is find out which aldermen to buy off and which to dump into the plasma. It's a poifect metch!

 

[slyc_willie]

Here -- check this out:

Watertorch

Imagine how much money welders, steel companies, etc. could save every year. And as far as disposing of trash, it would do just as well.

 

[Xelebes]

Here -- check this out:

Watertorch

Imagine how much money welders, steel companies, etc. could save every year. And as far as disposing of trash, it would do just as well.

This assumes the electricity bill is cheaper than the manufacturing cost of the acetylene and oxygen.

 

[slyc_willie]

This assumes the electricity bill is cheaper than the manufacturing cost of the acetylene and oxygen.

No acetylene. Just water. Splitting water into its components of hydrogen and oxygen is achieved through simple electrolysis. All around, it's a very cheap system.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

No acetylene. Just water. Splitting water into its components of hydrogen and oxygen is achieved through simple electrolysis. All around, it's a very cheap system.

No, electrolysis requires electricity to work. You use up more energy in electricity than you get from the recombination of the hydrogen and oxygen, otherwise you'd have a perpetual motion machine which is contrary to Newton's law of the conservation of energy.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

stupid page bump

 

[Gizzmotick]

No, electrolysis requires electricity to work. You use up more energy in electricity than you get from the recombination of the hydrogen and oxygen, otherwise you'd have a perpetual motion machine which is contrary to Newton's law of the conservation of energy.

Well, here is something you may want to take a look at. These guys have been in business for a while... and it looks as though they are onto something pretty good. Right along the same lines as Brown's Gas...

http://hytechapps.com/aquygen

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The STAR WARS technology is okay but not practical or cost effective.

If we were serious about our issues we'd create a different kind of population center that makes transportaion, energy, commerce, recreation, residences, etc. cost-effective and practical.

 

[JackLuis]

The STAR WARS technology is okay but not practical or cost effective.

If we were serious about our issues we'd create a different kind of population center that makes transportaion, energy, commerce, recreation, residences, etc. cost-effective and practical.

Hardly "Star Wars" tech. Brown's Gas has been around for a long time. Cracking water is cost effective, but it isn't a perfect system, it takes more energy that it gives back. There are a lot of people trying to make it work and have made retrofit kits for generation and use as a fuel supplement system.

Plasma systems for garbage reduction may be profitable when you consider "tipping costs" and the power generated. Don't know if the efficiency is very good though. But it takes out the trash and recovers some of the heavy metals form our waste. They could use this in San Jose because the recovery of heavy metals is a real problem there.

So as an economic stimulas, lets just redesign New York as JB suggests. Tear it down and start over.

 

[Weird Harold]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-converter.htm

Read it and tell me what you think.

Cat

Thermal depolymerization (TDP) is a process using hydrous pyrolysis for the reduction of complex organic materials (usually waste products of various sorts, often known as biomass and plastic) into light crude oil.

Conventional Pyrolysis systems, like plasma burners, are very good at dealing with non-nuclear hazardous waste , but as power generation facilities, theseem to be barely break even on the energy equation and a dead loss on the economic equation

Hydrous Pyrolysis showed a lot of promise a couple of years ago with the "Turkey Offal" plant in Carthage, Missouri, but frivilous lawsuits over "odor pollution" and bad business sense seems to have stunted any progress on the technology.

Watertorch
http://hytechapps.com/aquygen

Guys, I have a couple of beautiful and historic bridges for sale, plus some prime okefenokee real estate I'd really like to sell. Intersted?

Contrary to the claims of those sites, Hydrogen and Oxygen in perfect combination burns at ca. 1500F and that is barely hot enough to melt some iron alloys, but NOT hot enough to melt or cut mild steel, or even soften Titanium.

Contrary to the claims of those two sites, Electrolysis of water into "brown's gas" or "HHO gas" is neither fast nor high volume unless huge amounts of electricity is consumed -- basic chemistry.

Contrary to the claims of those two sites, allowing the gasses produced by electrolysis to be collected without separating them is NOT safe, especially if they are to be contained or compressed. Short of an uncontianed fusion reaction, it is about the most UNSAFE and irresponsible way of using Hydrogen I can think of.

Sites like those two rely on the failure of the educational system to actually teach basic chemistry to people -- and/or the basic inability of some people to apply basic science to the real world.

 

[DesertPirate]

Splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen is old hat. We had an oxygen generator on the Submarine (we had great air, we made it ourselves ). The only problem is when there was a leak (machine operated at 3000 PSI) it caused a very loud boom and blew the covers off, oh, that's why they called it the bomb!

 

[slyc_willie]

No, electrolysis requires electricity to work. You use up more energy in electricity than you get from the recombination of the hydrogen and oxygen, otherwise you'd have a perpetual motion machine which is contrary to Newton's law of the conservation of energy.

Well yes, VM, I was going on the assumption that we all understood electrolysis required electricity. I was just pointing out that the cost of the electricity to use a Brown's Gas generator would be cheaper than the materials for an acetylene torch (assuming both were used for the same application).

Guys, I have a couple of beautiful and historic bridges for sale, plus some prime okefenokee real estate I'd really like to sell. Intersted?

Here are some guys who have done their homework. It's still a ways away from being widely viable, but Brown's Gas shows promise in a lot of applications. The links along the left side are pretty interesting.

Hey, I just wanted to point out something interesting, that was all, like SeaCat did in the opening post. Not like I'm ordering a BG generator off Ebay right now.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Not like I'm ordering a BG generator off Ebay right now.

ROFLMAO

Probably just as well. You'd need a bigger apartment!

 

[DesertPirate]

ROFLMAO

Probably just as well. You'd need a bigger apartment!

If you want real savings, any metal cutter has to cut smoother and a thinner cut than a plasma or laser cutter. Wastage of cut metal adds up when wroking with anything beyond mild steel. Time to grind the cuts is either manual or machine labor. This is more expensive than the power used.

Tig welding is slow but is still the strongest and prettyist welding possible.

 

[Weird Harold]

Well yes, VM, I was going on the assumption that we all understood electrolysis required electricity. I was just pointing out that the cost of the electricity to use a Brown's Gas generator would be cheaper than the materials for an acetylene torch (assuming both were used for the same application).

A properlly adjusted oxy-acetelene flame burns at 2700F-2800F or thereabouts, Oxy-Hydrogen burns at 1500F and no matter how pwrfect the proportions are, it burns at 1500F

Here are some guys who have done their homework. It's still a ways away from being widely viable, but Brown's Gas shows promise in a lot of applications. The links along the left side are pretty interesting.

From the site you cite:

Brown’s Gas is common ducted oxyhydrogen; oxyhydrogen produced in a common ducted electrolyzer. From a practical level, what can visually observed, Brown’s Gas is indistinguishable from oxyhydrogen. The only sensory distinction, that can be observed, is the apparent temperature of the Brown’s Gas flame as compared to that of oxyhydrogen. Considering this obvious and duplicable phenomena, common ducted oxyhydrogen reasonably shares the vast majority of properties with oxyhydrogen, but possesses several distinctions.

Like I said earlier, I can't think of more dangerous way to generate or store Hydrogen that in perfect proportion with an oxidizer to provide the most complete and instantaneous combustion possible.

Can you spell
BOOM!