Now, This is a Good Start

[SpeareChucker]

President Trump has directed the Pentagon to remove thousands of American troops from Germany by September, a move that would dramatically reshape the U.S. military posture in Europe and reflects growing tensions between Washington and Berlin over military spending and other security issues, U.S. government officials said Friday.

The removal order would reduce the U.S. troop presence in Germany by 9,500 from the 34,500 service members who are permanently assigned there. It would also cap at 25,000 the number of American troops in Germany at any one time. Under current practice, overall troop levels can rise to as high as 52,000 as units rotate in and out or take part in training exercises.

It's about time.
Can Korea and Japan be far behind?
We are getting troops out of other Asian conflicts.
Is this not what we want in the war against policing;
to no longer be a militarized global police presence?
to give other countries a chance to come up with their
own community-based solutions to aggressive threats?


Or, is this simply another thing that Trump has screwed up
forcing the Generals of the Military-Industrial Complex to
speak up and denounce him for not remaining in theater?

 

[feverplanet]

https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/baby-trump14.jpg

 

[Adre]

Reducing the numbers makes sense, as does maintaining an adequate presence for our own purposes.

 

[SpeareChucker]

This is a good start...

 

[Mal_Huevo]

Bring them home to fight the real enemy : the press and the american people.

It's a good start...

 

[feverplanet]

Bring them home to fight the real enemy : the press and the american people.

It's a good start...

Indeed.

 

[bestone4ever]

We need 9,500 people in a country we're not at war with?

 

[PaxNurgle]

Bring them home to fight the real enemy : the press and the american people.

It's a good start...

The sad thing is, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

Because some on this board would actually support that idea.

 

[Mal_Huevo]

The sad thing is, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

Because some on this board would actually support that idea.

Now that the right view all protesters as violent rioters, they are going to need extra man power to crack some skulls.

FREEDOM!!!

 

[OldJourno]

We need 9,500 people in a country we're not at war with?

I'm starting to understand why we agree to disagree.
Ahem.

Anyway, I was in Germany decades ago when it made sense from a strategic point of view. I'm not sure we really need anyone there now beyond a skeleton crew to perhaps maintain facilities and equipment in case a return is needed.

 

[jaF0]

It's about time.

What would have been your reaction if Jimmy or Bubba or BO had done this?

 

[Lazaran]

I'm starting to understand why we agree to disagree.
Ahem.

Anyway, I was in Germany decades ago when it made sense from a strategic point of view. I'm not sure we really need anyone there now beyond a skeleton crew to perhaps maintain facilities and equipment in case a return is needed.

Whatever Putin thinks is best.

 

[ishtat]

The immediate cause of the announcement's timing was that Merkel has announced she will not attend the G7 in the fall. Trump has invited the usual nations plus Putin and a few 2nd string nations. Merkel said handling the corona virus at home was more important, however, she also disapproved of Putin being there because G7 is supposed to be democratic nations only. Trump is pissed off with Merkel - again.

In the longer view Trump would say he is carrying out his policy but it serves even more the policy of Putin.

It is possible too that Trump was happy to announce the move in a week that his own military people have criticized him. He rarely lets any slight on his competence go.

 

[LupusDei]

Yeah.

https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/baby-trump14.jpg

This.

Thing is, however... By numbers Germany must have world's third largest military. They don't. Well, it was by design, for a longest time American soldiers stayed in Germany exactly for the explicit purpose to not incentivize Germany to have army of her own, because, that's proven to be historically risky, wasn't it? So, the question is, do Trump wants Germany to become world significant military force? The USA diplomacy so far did everything to prevent any integrated EU army to form, saying it's redundant, because NATO. If USA retreats, it becomes necessity. So, in long term, this has potential to significantly diminish USA influence and damage international interests. Then, under Trump, USA is becoming a third world country, and would end somewhere in par with Brazil on world scene. Or even under, if Brazil will get rid of their own trumpite.

 

[bellisarius]

Yeah.



This.

Thing is, however... By numbers Germany must have world's third largest military. They don't. Well, it was by design, for a longest time American soldiers stayed in Germany exactly for the explicit purpose to not incentivize Germany to have army of her own, because, that's proven to be historically risky, wasn't it? So, the question is, do Trump wants Germany to become world significant military force? The USA diplomacy so far did everything to prevent any integrated EU army to form, saying it's redundant, because NATO. If USA retreats, it becomes necessity. So, in long term, this has potential to significantly diminish USA influence and damage international interests. Then, under Trump, USA is becoming a third world country, and would end somewhere in par with Brazil on world scene. Or even under, if Brazil will get rid of their own trumpite.

Ahh, but it's not that, not that at all.

Demographics rules everything. Both Germany and Russia are dying nations. Their fertility rates are in the toilet so their ability to raise a military capable of foreign adventures diminish every year from no on. If those nations stared breeding like rabbits today it would still be 40 years until they could start thinking about invading a neighbor. So maybe if they do start that breeding program we can think about building up our military presence in 25-30 years or so.

As a footnote, it requires a fertility rate of 2.1 children/female to maintain a stable population. Germany's fertility rate is 1.47 while Russia's fertility rate is 1.6.

 

[SpeareChucker]

What would have been your reaction if Jimmy or Bubba or BO had done this?

*chuckle*

#WhatAboutIsm...




I have been saying for fucking years that we needed to draw down in Germany
even pointing out that when withdrawal was contemplated, the local German
Mayors were squawking louder than the RW Military-Industrial Complex
because it would eliminate a revenue stream for their economies...

But this thread has proved so much about what I think of y'all.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Ahh, but it's not that, not that at all.

Demographics rules everything. Both Germany and Russia are dying nations. Their fertility rates are in the toilet so their ability to raise a military capable of foreign adventures diminish every year from no on. If those nations stared breeding like rabbits today it would still be 40 years until they could start thinking about invading a neighbor. So maybe if they do start that breeding program we can think about building up our military presence in 25-30 years or so.

As a footnote, it requires a fertility rate of 2.1 children/female to maintain a stable population. Germany's fertility rate is 1.47 while Russia's fertility rate is 1.6.

And to combat that, they import cultural discord,
at least in Germany.
I think the Russians just drink more and they cannot focus
on Europe now because China is assimilating resources on their border,
on both sides of it as they now do in India from their assimilated base in Tibet.

Anyone remember when Tibet and its freedom was a real big issue to the Left?
Now they're more worried about their fantasies about how their domestic
enemies are going to steal their rights than they are about Hong Kong.