Now is the time to bitch... come on...

[HSWriter]

Ok guys... It can be said that we've had some problems with the 2000 Literotica Awards... We've fought and screamed for two months about it now, and we are now four days from the end of the nominations... What I would like from all of you is a little feedback on the Awards Nominations process... SO, if you could email me, or post your feedback here, then I would greatly appreciate your input... I am looking for criticism, and praise... feedback both good and bad... mostly, though, I am interested in what you didn't like and what you'd like to see me fix for next year... So lay it on... Lay it on thick...

Come on guys, I am giving you the ultimate chance to vent here... so take advantage...

 

[Angel]

Category

I just wanted to say I liked the idea of all of the members helping to decide on Categories. Uh, I forgot what else I was going to give ya feedback on, but I'll come back and post it later when my brain wants to function again.





As for laying it on, I'm not into doing that in public

 

[CreamyLady]

Perhaps just a little less hype?

 

[christo]

I think a problem with the nominations is the sheer volume of stories out there. Folks might nominate a story they like, but because there are so many out there making an informed choice is very difficult.

I don't know what the best solution might be. You don't want to have a group of "experts" dictating what stories are nominated. At the same time, there are people who post a lot on the boards, read most of the stories, and are can provide some critical analysis.

I don't know how the eventual winners are selected, if there are judges who review the nominations. Or if it's a vote after the nominees are chosen. Perhaps to ensure that some stories aren't overlooked there could be a panel who select a few stories and the other spots would be open for anyone to nominate, and then there would be a period where everyone could read over the nominees and make their choices from there.

A couple of my stories got nominated and I think that's pretty goddam cool. That part of the Awards I loved!

 

[Beaker]

Bit hard... too many stories nowadays

 

[Madame Pandora]

Sorry...saw my name in the thread title and had to peek ;-)

1. No matter the number of stories, this gives people a chance to vote their favorites. Most people don't take the time to properly educate themselves about all their elected officials, either. An ignorant vote counts as much as any other (this year proves it). If someone only read 1 story and they liked it enough to want to nominate it, I say have at it.

2. I think it needs to be made clear that the NUMBER of nominations will count. So...if people see their choice up there they won't think "that's already covered." There was some confusion this year...live and learn ;-)

3. That "sexiest female/male" thing needs to be changed. Personally don't mind the title. It could be the most "overall" sexy author, incorporating personality, writing style, and pics if that is the case. But, if it's only supposed to be about the writing, then that is a bit confusing to some. Whatever the award is supposed to represent ;-)

4. I thought the amount of promotion was fine.

5. JUST a thought. Since there was some question about the "validity" of some nominations, maybe you could have a rule that the person had to be registered with Lit for at least 30 days prior to voting? I dunno. Seems to me, this isn't something easily solved. I can see where a lot of people who don't frequent the boards might only come in to nominate or vote as their first act of registration or voting. I don't think this is a problem, but for those who do...well...I don't think solving it is going to be easy (if it is even occuring).

Just MHO ;-)

MP

 

[KillerMuffin]

Maybe there could be a story of the month kind of deal and then the awards could be based off of those.

 

[Beaker]

Maybe there could be a story of the month kind of deal and then the awards could be based off of those.

Don't think so... I cant be screwed voting every month though with the automation it might work

 

[Flagg]

The whole thing was a shambles. I mean just exactly what kind of Awards fail to include a "Best story about god" category. Tssk!

 

[Isabella Thorne]

ok re Sexiest Female Author / Sexiest Male Author ...

how can one possibly tell people how to vote????!!!!! ...

oh yea right ... don't consider anything else except their writing ... not their posts ... not their pics ... not their personality ... not their sex appeal ...

How can you tell someone to only consider the writing when they have glimpsed more of the author ...

HOW CAN YOU TELL SOMEONE HOW THEY SHOULD VOTE!!!????

Sexiest Male / Female Author is a total package whether you like it or not ...

when the good people of the U.S. vote for their president, it is supposed to be about politics, am i correct? does everyone vote for the president soley based on their political views? me thinks not.

some will vote for him cause he looks cute ... some will vote him cause of the color his eyes, his religion, because their parents voted for him ... because of where he is from, etc., etc., ... they vote on the total package ... those votes are never questioned. nobody says well "Did you vote for him because you think his politics are the best" ...

when people nominate ... it is simply a preliminary process ... it is listing their favourites ... people that appealed to them throughout the year ... for whatever reason ..

that is how i voted ... now why did i pick for instance Creamy Lady for Sexiest Female Author? ... yes i love her writing ... but i also like the whole package ... including posts, personality, sex appeal, humour, etc. ... and yes, in my opinion, that gave her the edge over other authors whose stories i also liked ...

YOU CAN NOT DICTATE TO PEOPLE HOW THEY SHOULD VOTE ... that is insane ... and that is the bottom line IMHO.

I have put off a long time posting my opinion about this ... i was going to say nothing ... but then i saw this thread .. and damn if my emotions got the better of me again ...

and i also want to say that i thought this was supposed to be a fun thing ... well now with all these rules that are proposed, etc. .... dammit if it doesn't seem like work ... not fun at all .. why is everyone taking it so damn seriously ... it is supposed to be fun, people ... why is everyone taking it so "life and death" seriously ..
____________________________
Best story about God, Flagg? hmmmm ... must have missed that story posted about You here in Lit ... lol ... WB, dear

[Edited by Isabella Thorne on 01-29-2001 at 04:15 AM]

 

[CRaZy]

At a lot of sites the story/stories/authors of the month are selected by the head guru (in this case Laurel). Members then vote on those at the end of the year. As well as a members' winner, there is often an editor's choice. It's like the Oscars and the Golden Globes rolled into one!!!

 

[alexander tzara]

I think you've done a lot of good work HS Writer and I can't understand why so many people have been so resistant to making it all work. At the same time I'm disappointed. I asked a legitimate question about the categories on the Author's Hangout at the weekend. Nobody answered it, so I asked it again in the Nominations Thread. If anyone knows the answer it's going to be you or Laurel. You've posted since then and just completely ignored my question. I think that's pretty rude.

alex tzara (roger simian)

My Stories

* * *
"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene
bag is fast 'n' bulbous, got me?"

~ captain beefheart ~

 

[WriterDom]

Literotica ended the year with a little more than 10,000 members and is growing by 1000 a week. Next January there will be over 60,000. What happens when number of stories increase to 100 a day or 200 a day. Can Laurel even keep up?

I like the idea of limiting the choice of categories to one per person. Let them submit in email 3 choices ranked 1, 2, and 3. A one is worth 3 points. 2 is worth 2, and three is worth 1. Authors would be encouraged to participate, but outside of the usual genre they write. From these selections, 3 stories would be posted from each category for the entire site to vote.

 

[Guest]

Juried awards

 

[Guest]

Hey Flagg, you wouldn't win anyway. You may have written the best story (and worst and only) story about fucking God but others have written stories relecting a much greater knowledge of all things Godly. Killer Muffin and Deborah to mention two.

But Flagg, don't you demand a category for Necrophilia because of your story about fucking a dead girl?

 

[Whispersecret]

I was one of the ones who wanted clarification about the definition of the Sexiest Author award, so I feel I should say something.

I disagree with Isabella. (Take some deep breaths, there, Miss Thorne. You seem really upset.)

If Laurel holds Awards, she has every right to tell people what the parameters are. In this example, it means she can say, "Please try to limit your nominations to those authors whose stories you find to be of high merit. Also, please try not to let other factors affect your decision. Our aim is to recognize the excellent writing here at this site."

Can she enforce these parameters on the voters? Of course, she can't.

We're human. We all unconsciously allow factors like looks and personality to sway our votes, be it for president or whatever. However, that doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and say, "Okay, whatever! I'm voting for the presidential nominee with the most hair."

If Laurel said that pix and bulletin board posts should be considered for Sexiest Author, then I would do my best to follow her wishes.
____

Here are some of my thoughts:

1. What if the nominations were done off the boards? I think that a lot of the duplicated nominations were due to the fact that a story had already been nominated and therefore drew more attention, which is a little unfair.

2. Is there a way to highlight the stories in the story section that are eligible--in this case, posted during 2000? There has to be a better way than to say, "Nominate anything you want and we'll figure out if it's eligible later." That makes it hard on the readers. If you could narrow the field, you might get more nominations. (Christo mentioned this problem too.)

I mean, theoretically, five years from now there will be God knows how many stories. It will be IMPOSSIBLE for even your "regulars" to remember which story was posted when. Perhaps it's a good idea to organize the entire site by the year. Just a thought.

3. On a variation of Crazy/KM's story of the month idea...Now that there are "E" and "H" designations, perhaps those should be the stories that are automatically put on the ballot, and there can be open nominations "from the floor" later.

4. I think that you should open up a discussion about next year's awards BEFORE the award process begins, not during.

5. How are the entertainment awards (People's Choice, Oscars, etc.) organized? Who nominates? What process do they follow? Why re-invent the wheel if they have a process that works? We could examine their process and see if any of it fits our needs.

6. What do the ballots look like? Are they organized by category? I suggest you put links to the stories there so if a voter wants to make a more informed decision, you've made it as easy as possible for them to do so.

7. Yes, the membership is growing, but does the site have a built in purge of non-active members?

8. In December 2000, I was wondering how the awards would be run. If I had known that Laurel needed someone to run them, I would have volunteered. If you want me for next year's awards, you have but to ask me, Mistress. I can't promise anything this far in advance, but I'll do my best.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

I disagree with Isabella. (Take some deep breaths, there, Miss Thorne. You seem really upset.)

really? welll ummmmm hardly ... i wrote that this morning before my coffee luv ... and it was opinion ...

that is all ...

i guess i missed Laurel's instructions somewhere along the line ... but alas i am blonde ....lol
____________________________
oops ... i should have numbered bullets next time too.

 

[Madame Pandora]

3. On a variation of Crazy/KM's story of the month idea...Now that there are "E" and "H" designations, perhaps those should be the stories that are automatically put on the ballot, and there can be open nominations "from the floor" later.

I think for the "E"s that would be a good idea, but the "H"s to the best of my understanding trigger automatically and can change from day to day depending on how many votes a story has, etc. Potentially, every story on the site COULD be an "H" so I don't know how reasonable that is (unless I am flawed in my understanding of the system).

As far as the organization of the awards, I haven't noticed anything garishly out of step. Sure, there's some miscommunication of ideas and intentions, but no biggie. Each year, I'm sure they'll get a little more organized...kinda like the first time you throw a party. That freshman year you're in college you've got homemade sangria and bags of chips around a stereo. Later in life, you hire caterers and DJs...lol.

I don't see anything wrong with making suggestions, but these AREN'T the Oscars. Isabella was a little brash, but she's basically right. These are meant to be fun. It's a nod of appreciation from peers and readers. And you're never going to stop popularity and other factors from weighing in. Still, the intent of the each award could be expressed, then people can choose to do as they will with that. How about a brief description of each award as the first post in the nominations thread…or possibly a short Nominations FAQ page?

HSWriter (and I think Laurel) have said, part of the reason these issues have snapped up unchecked this year is because they didn’t occur to anyone last year. I wasn't here, but that seems reasonable. You don't necessarily foresee problems until they happen. Then, you can't always address them as you'd like.

I think they're a nice gesture to the authors who contribute to the site, but they're JUST awards. Even the Oscars, when you think about it, are just a nod to a performance. It's not like Tom Hanks cured cancer. He just delivered an admirable turn of acting. An honor, sure...but nothing that changes the rotation of the earth. And...we are a far cry from Oscars here ;-) If anything, the Literotica awards might look good on a cover letter to a publisher (depending on the genre..lol) ;-)

Also, I don't think, in this case, you have to read the entire site to vote. If a reader only took in ONE story and thought it was gangbusters, let him nominate. I say more power to him. This isn’t the presidential election. It’s erotica, and the point of any artistic medium is to communicate to your audience. If it makes a reader feel like he's part of the process encourage him to vote for his one story or poem. That’s one more person offering a response.

If it turns into too much of a hassle, and I were Laurel, I'd just wash my hands of it...so I think maybe the awards should be approached a little more light-heartedly.

Maybe...and I don't know how conceivable this is in a website maintenance sense, but maybe a few months before the awards, there could be a link put at the bottom of eligible stories (like there is for feedback, etc) which says "If you think this story was the best, click here to nominate it for Best Erotic Couplings of the Year" or words to that effect. Anything to make it less work for the reader.

Just MHO ;-)

MP

 

[WriterDom]

7. Yes, the membership is growing, but does the site have a built in purge of non-active members?

Growing? It has more than doubled in two months..

 

[HSWriter]

This is great feedback guys... I am definetly taking notes... and thanks to those of you who have sent some emails... keep 'em coming... I think that a lot will be improved by this...

 

[Laurel]

Hi all...I want to say in advance that I haven't read every post on this thread, though I do intend on doing so. Basically, I'm popping in to let you all know that next year's awards will be very, very different. We (me, Weird Harold, HSWriter, Manu, and others of you who've written me with suggestions) are working on a system which will more fairly recognize stories from the beginning of the year as well as from the end.

Granted, writing isn't a sport. It's an art. I feel weird hanging 1st and 2nd place ribbons on stories like they were prize pork. However, I know it feels good to get recognition. This year's awards have been confusing, and I take full responsibility for that. The new scripts, my -ill-timed vacation...all have added to the confusion. But next year's awards are going to kick ass, people. Now that we have this super-cool new script stuff, we have the power to do things we couldn't do before, including (as we mentioned before) offer monthly contests with cash & goodies going to winners. Yippee!

The aim is to make sure more of you are recognized for your achievements. The top lists broken up by categories allows more stories to be #1's. The monthly contests will recognize more writers. And the end of the year awards will further spread the kudos around.

If I could pin a ribbon on each and every one of you, I would, damn it. You're all Blue Ribbon contenders in my book. I appreciate your patience through this rather confusing time, and promise you that the best is yet to come. You just wait...you ain't seen nuttin yet...

 

[alexander tzara]

...

 

[Fred H.]

hSWiter you did a good job in a tough spot. I'm not sure if this year nomination mean much after disregarding most of the years voting on the stories. I firmly believe that the best selections should be picked from the full year's tally.

5. JUST a thought. Since there was some question about the "validity" of some nominations, maybe you could have a rule that the person had to be registered with Lit for at least 30 days prior to voting?

yes, my concern also. With the very low vote count it was to easy to sway the out come by multiply nomination from the same person. If the full years count with hundreds of votes had been used 5 or 10 false votes would not have had the same impact. To me this would have been important enough to have had fixed so that the works submitted very early in 99 could have had proper reports.
Laurel, I understand you stated this was hard to impossible, but as several of the very gifted writers have mentioned feedback and voting is important to them.

 

[Laurel]

No. I think that would discourage the 'real' people from voting without stopping any fraud whatsoever. Those who wish to commit fraud will register 30 days ahead of time. Those who don't, won't bother voting until they are 'eligible' and at that point will be so in the habit of reading without voting that they will continue to do so. So basically you're insulting the 'good' people by saying they aren't worthy enough to vote, without deterring those with questionable intent one whit.

I think you are all focusing your attention on the 0.0001% of the Lit population who <i>may</i> commit fraud, to the exclusion of everyone else. Believe it or not, most people don't care enough to put the time and effort necessary into fraud. They come here to have fun. That's why the percentage of people who vote - on this site and every other site - is so low: people don't come here to be quizzed or to evaluate authors, they come here to read stories and relax. The more restrictions and weird rules you apply to the voting, the less people will be willing to put in the effort.

As I've said many many times, once we get the new Members voting up, it will be extremely difficult to commit fraud. Every member will be allowed one vote per story - period. There's no way around that in the new system. Only the Member votes will count for the contests. I will be able to find and remove fraudulent accounts (and I will). At that point, many of your concerns regarding fraud will be unnecessary.

I think a better focus would be to find ways to INCREASE voting and participation, not decrease it.

 

[Fred H.]

No. Believe it or not, most people don't care enough to put the time and effort necessary into fraud. They come here to have fun. That's why the percentage of people who vote - on this site and every other site - is so low: people don't come here to be quizzed or to evaluate authors, they come here to read stories and relax. The more restrictions and weird rules you apply to the voting, the less people will be willing to put in the effort.


I think a better focus would be to find ways to INCREASE voting and participation, not decrease it.

yes I would agree with you on this. That is why the full year of voting was so important to keep. With very few people voting you need a full year of accumulation to get a true best selection of works.

your best of all time selection's, idea is tops.

one last jab I have to add;
voting was the only thing you have ever asked anybody to do in mass on this site and to see all the moaning that came out of it was a disgrace. HSWrite understands what I mean. Laurel, I think you deserve better for all your work. SK, post was typical; it rolled and bathed in, me, me, me, and me. So it was a little work to read a few stories; big deal. Supporting the site is also important.