Novice subs beware

[catalina_francisco]

Thought I would post this case from my hometown in a separate thread to show how easy it is to trust the wrong peron when new to BDSM. I do not for one minute equate these two people with the BDSM world, but they are the type of predators who are out there, and the same thing can happen in effect with an inexperienced dominant. Please be careful who you play with.

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7017465^421,00.html

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,7044077,00.html

http://heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6920227%5E1702,00.html


Catalina

 

[Owlz]

Thought I would post this case from my hometown in a separate thread to show how easy it is to trust the wrong peron when new to BDSM. I do not for one minute equate these two people with the BDSM world, but they are the type of predators who are out there, and the same thing can happen in effect with an inexperienced dominant. Please be careful who you play with.

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7017465^421,00.html

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,7044077,00.html

http://heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6920227%5E1702,00.html


Catalina

Thanks, Catalina. Subscribed to this thread for reading later (caffeine defficiency at the moment. )

Owlz

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I thought you were warning them about me!!

 

[catalina_francisco]

I thought you were warning them about me!!

Nah, never!!!

C

 

[Pure]

This has nothing to do with subs in danger or inexperienced doms. The murdered woman likely didn't know she was 'subbing'. Consider the end excerpt about her 'sub' predecesor:



[THE Advertiser said, of the man Huebner:]
//He also admitted he had attacked another female friend 18 months earlier, when he bound, gagged and choked her and fixed a noose around her neck. He said the attack on Melissa Gazsik was an attempt to help her get over an on-going bout of depression, but denied that at one point he had yelled out: "Why won't she die?" //

In the present case, there is some doubt about the 'game'; and the bugger pleaded to manslaughter. The jury decided there was no game. The earlier incident points in the direction of something more than SM, or if you like, toward criminal sadistic acts.

The newspaper's account of the previous events with another woman:
A young fellow student of Huebner and Maher's from the Queensland University of Technology had since told of a terrifying ordeal after Huebner "planned a surprise to cheer her up", the prosecutor said.

Melissa Gazsik, of Brassall, near Ipswich, was allegedly taken to bushland where Maher was waiting.

Huebner grabbed her around the neck and straddled her to the ground, saying "why won't she die", and then strangled her into unconsciousness.

When she came to, she was coughing blood and still had Huebner's hands around her throat, the prosecutor said.

Huebner then placed a rolled-up plastic bag in her mouth and put restraints Maher had given him on her wrists and legs. He then carried her to a nearby tree, where she lay for more than an hour.

Then he placed a noose around her neck and appeared to begin stringing her up on a pulley.

Huebner then removed the gag and let Ms Gazsik go, telling her he had done it all because he loved her and needed to teach her a lesson

This certainly does *not fit Catalina's initial statement:

Thought I would post this case from my hometown in a separate thread to show how easy it is to trust the wrong peron when new to BDSM.

It would be stretching things a *tiny* bit to describe Melissa Gaszik as 'new to BDSM'; perhaps 'new to psycho murder attempts' would be closer.

 

[Ebonyfire]

However, whenever the media uses loaded terminology to infer that the murder was BDSM oriented, it does fuel the fire.

It does not have to be BDSM related to be labelled such.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Hell, if the media calls it BDSM, it IS BDSM...and how is a newbie supposed to tell the difference?

 

[Howling_Ire]

they don't. most people don't 'take the time to educate themselves on the subject. i could give you the example of a friend of mine that when she was alot younger was fooling around with her boyfriend who was quite unstable who took her wanting to be kinky as an excuse to tie her up and stab her with a pen when she didn't behave the way she wanted to...then slaped her everytime she said or ddi something he didn't like, and at one point whiped her across the face with a big ball chain necklace..

thier's a really fine line we dance on here, it's easy for people on the outside to think the safe, sane and consentual aspect is abusive, and it's sometimes hard to figure out where it stops being safe sane and consentual and becomes abusive for people in the life style...this has alot to do with epople ignoreing thier guts an convinceing themselves it's ok..at least that's what i've notiched in my own appenion..

but with anything you do, and i do mean anything, you should learn about it and be prepared for the things you can come across along the way.

as for that friend of mine who was in the bad relationship,s he was lucky enough to get out, and has met a very nice man, who has showed her that you can have the kink you want and not be harmed, and they are getting married in october. happy ending.

 

[Pure]

Hi Howling,
I hear you. People don't educate themselves, and so on. Learn about consensual kink, and nonconsensual crimes.

But taking your statement,

/but with anything you do, and i do mean anything, you should learn about it and be prepared for the things you can come across along the way./

it would NOT have done Gazsik one bit of good to hear this; take it to heart and practice it. likely the same is true of the murdered girl. In G's case, she didn't "do" anything except 'know' a violent psychopath. Perhaps that's true of the murdered woman also.
The truth is it's *very hard to say anything that will help a person in G's position; or that runs into the likes of Ted Bundy.

 

[Howling_Ire]

yes you are right, thier are ted bundies out thier, who will pray on anyone and everyone they can... but i was more directing what i was saying towards people doing consentual things.

 

[yourdestonie]

Thought I would post this case from my hometown in a separate thread to show how easy it is to trust the wrong peron when new to BDSM. I do not for one minute equate these two people with the BDSM world, but they are the type of predators who are out there, and the same thing can happen in effect with an inexperienced dominant. Please be careful who you play with.

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7017465^421,00.html

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,7044077,00.html

http://heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6920227%5E1702,00.html


Catalina

Thanks for your concern, It would be nice if those of us who are new to the world of BDSM had more info like this.
I realize that bad press is all the BDSM world will ever recieve from mainstream news. How ever its also good for anyone going to meet and play with a Dom to understand they need to really get to know them first.
I for one have a few rules I go be even before I try a phine call. If you listen and read their posts at least on here you'll see alot about their personality. Don't over look the warning signs. we all know what they are.

Also be honest with yourself first. if your not really into something and you find the prospective Dom posting to a thread about that subject, and he's talking aobut how much he likes what ever it is just move on. at some point he's going to want to push you toward that. Even if its a hard limit, thats only human. if he don't then he's going to be unhappy having to do without that part of his sexuality. And if he pushes you your going to feel bad saying no. eather way someone will end up unhappy.

talk on the phone alot he's going to slip up if theres something he's hiding. just watch for it.

And ask around if he's been here for anytime at all he's known by someone. Find out what others think of him. Now personal conflicts are one thing I don't really look at but if he's had conflicts with more than one or two just beware.

I'm not trying to tell any new sub to not meat and enjoy their new life. But don't get into a situation you can't get out of.


be smart about this and have fun.

OMG do I get talkitive

pardon the spelling I'm not the best typist in the pool

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Novice subs beware

Thanks for your concern, It would be nice if those of us who are new to the world of BDSM had more info like this.
I realize that bad press is all the BDSM world will ever recieve from mainstream news. How ever its also good for anyone going to meet and play with a Dom to understand they need to really get to know them first.
I for one have a few rules I go be even before I try a phine call. If you listen and read their posts at least on here you'll see alot about their personality. Don't over look the warning signs. we all know what they are.

Also be honest with yourself first. if your not really into something and you find the prospective Dom posting to a thread about that subject, and he's talking aobut how much he likes what ever it is just move on. at some point he's going to want to push you toward that. Even if its a hard limit, thats only human. if he don't then he's going to be unhappy having to do without that part of his sexuality. And if he pushes you your going to feel bad saying no. eather way someone will end up unhappy.

talk on the phone alot he's going to slip up if theres something he's hiding. just watch for it.

And ask around if he's been here for anytime at all he's known by someone. Find out what others think of him. Now personal conflicts are one thing I don't really look at but if he's had conflicts with more than one or two just beware.

I'm not trying to tell any new sub to not meat and enjoy their new life. But don't get into a situation you can't get out of.


be smart about this and have fun.

OMG do I get talkitive

pardon the spelling I'm not the best typist in the pool

Think these are all good points to highlight. For some reason, I find most people tend to suppress the warning signs they see or hear that interfere with their hopes and dreams. While it is understandable at times, and often relatively harmless, at other times it is downright dangerous and illogical.

Catalina

 

[yourdestonie]

Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

Think these are all good points to highlight. For some reason, I find most people tend to suppress the warning signs they see or hear that interfere with their hopes and dreams. While it is understandable at times, and often relatively harmless, at other times it is downright dangerous and illogical.

Catalina

Well for me even though I'm a novice to the World of BDSM, I'm a little more mature to the real world. most of those things would hold true to any meeting situation. Its just on here we have a few more openings to look someone over so to speak. Most of us don't take the time to really look.

I know theres a pit of the stomach feeling I get. it usually knows when something is wrong. I just have to listen.

I'd hate to know though some unsuspecting nubie got his or her self in trouble because they didn't realize that being a sub dosen't mean being a door mat.

You don't have to mind just because they call themselves a Dom/Domme. They still should be big enough to earn your respect.

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

I know theres a pit of the stomach feeling I get. it usually knows when something is wrong. I just have to listen.

Learning to listen to your feelings is really really important. Keep in mind that the same feeling will also tell you when someone is RIGHT.

Our subconcious is a big pattern processing engine, and it notices way more than we do conciously. It will effect our emotions though, so pay attention to yourself!

It was this very feeling which happened when I met my lover... and for some reason, even though she looked miserable and had the 'flu, I thought she was just SO RIGHT...

I have felt that same feeling on both sides. I.e. a strong "no, something's wrong", and "yes, this is right". In fact, felt it again when I first met our submissive.

So... do trust those feelings! They can be strong indications of things you haven't conciously noted.

 

[yourdestonie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

Learning to listen to your feelings is really really important. Keep in mind that the same feeling will also tell you when someone is RIGHT.

Our subconcious is a big pattern processing engine, and it notices way more than we do conciously. It will effect our emotions though, so pay attention to yourself!

It was this very feeling which happened when I met my lover... and for some reason, even though she looked miserable and had the 'flu, I thought she was just SO RIGHT...

I have felt that same feeling on both sides. I.e. a strong "no, something's wrong", and "yes, this is right". In fact, felt it again when I first met our submissive.

So... do trust those feelings! They can be strong indications of things you haven't conciously noted.

Your so right. I try to listen to that gut feeling and distinguish between the good and the bad. How ever you also have to use good common Sense along with it or you'll end up a statistic.
I may never find what it is I'm looking for but I set a few rules prior to starting out, these were things that I felt like I would tell someone else if I was giving them advice on how to stay safe.
Now there are alot of great Dom's on here. So I in now way want to imply that all fall into any one of these catagories, But if I'm talking to one and he breaks one of the rules I've set I let him know. These are my rules I follow they work for me set your own rules and stick to them.

1. The first time you talk you are only two people talking. If He/She (for some) starts off the first conversation being a super Dominate I'd take that as one red flag. I may be a subbie But I'm still a human and deserve their respect and to be treated as an equal till such time as I decide to submit to someone.

2. Being a subbie dosen't mean your not important to others and if your not being taken serious in the first few conversations then you can rest assured your limits may be forgoten when the time comes. How they treat you to start with will give you a good idea of how you'll be treated later, only worse.

3. BE picky very picky. Don't settle for just any Dom Know what it is that will make your Dom special and look for just that. Don't settle for something else both of you will be very unhappy in the long run.

4. I'm still a person not a doormat I let them know right off the bat if their looking for a doormat then their looking in the wrong place.

 

[Guest]

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

These are my rules I follow they work for me set your own rules and stick to them.

They're good rules, Tonie. Funnily enough, I have similar rules -- a slightly different angle of course.

I would generalise your rule #1 as "must be someone I can TALK to", i.e. someone who actively listens, who is open, who contributes to the conversation, who doesn't make me feel small or petty.

My take on your rule #4 would be "must be a stong, independent, functional person. Not a doormat. Submission must be a gift from strength made by choice, not something that is offered to anyone and everyone."

Your rule #3 is a good rule for life. Don't settle. Especially in a partner. A total recipe for unhappiness and disaster.

 

[yourdestonie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

They're good rules, Tonie. Funnily enough, I have similar rules -- a slightly different angle of course.

I would generalise your rule #1 as "must be someone I can TALK to", i.e. someone who actively listens, who is open, who contributes to the conversation, who doesn't make me feel small or petty.

My take on your rule #4 would be "must be a stong, independent, functional person. Not a doormat. Submission must be a gift from strength made by choice, not something that is offered to anyone and everyone."

Your rule #3 is a good rule for life. Don't settle. Especially in a partner. A total recipe for unhappiness and disaster.

Your so right Fungi, the problem as I see it is this. There are so many Dom's on here that will really lay it on thick right off the bat, and most nubies really don't know to watch out for certian types. I've actually had one tell me off because he sent me a messgae one night and I didn't get back to him within 24 hours.
This was a first contact message from him too. He called me several names and told me I didn't deserve to be his sub OMG he was so wrong. He didn't even think to check and see if I had been on or not, and even if I had been what right does he have to start a conversation with a demand?

In my book He let me know something about himself and that was he didn't deserve my submisssion. And I actually sent him a message to that effect. Just before blocking him from contacting me again. I'm thinking he didn't like that at all. Call me uppity or what ever you want to but, when I choose to submit He will deserve that gift.

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

Call me uppity

Okay Uppity!

No, I think that's just self-preservation. Submission is supposed to be a gift, not something that is expected. And being submissive doesn't mean you submit to anyone and everyone. You still choose who you submit to.

And frankly, I would think you insane to submit to someone who starts with demands. If you are his submissive, well that's different. But you're not until that gift of submission is made and accepted.

 

[yourdestonie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

Okay Uppity!

No, I think that's just self-preservation. Submission is supposed to be a gift, not something that is expected. And being submissive doesn't mean you submit to anyone and everyone. You still choose who you submit to.

And frankly, I would think you insane to submit to someone who starts with demands. If you are his submissive, well that's different. But you're not until that gift of submission is made and accepted.

Well thats one point most Nubies don't understand.

A Dom/me isn't Your Dom/me till you give Him/Her that gift, and you are not required by any rules of any game to do that right off. That is absolutly your choice as to when you give that gift and to who. If you give it too quick or to everyone its not really a gift the way I see it.

To me my submission is almost as precious as my virginity was so many years ago. A precious gift to be given only to one who deserves it.

 

[WriterDom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

Well thats one point most Nubies don't understand.

A Dom/me isn't Your Dom/me till you give Him/Her that gift, and you are not required by any rules of any game to do that right off. That is absolutly your choice as to when you give that gift and to who. If you give it too quick or to everyone its not really a gift the way I see it.

To me my submission is almost as precious as my virginity was so many years ago. A precious gift to be given only to one who deserves it.

And what is the value of someone's submission if it is freely and instantly given to anyone who asks? You gain respect by being respectful. I find that the sweet moment of surrender is worth waiting for.

 

[yourdestonie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

And what is the value of someone's submission if it is freely and instantly given to anyone who asks? You gain respect by being respectful. I find that the sweet moment of surrender is worth waiting for.

I fully agree WD thanks for backing me up on that.

I think most true Dom/Me's would agree. Its very nice to know that there are at least a few of those around here. I'm sure though that there are many more that haven't posted here.

I hope that neubies read this thread and begin to understand that.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice subs beware

And what is the value of someone's submission if it is freely and instantly given to anyone who asks? You gain respect by being respectful. I find that the sweet moment of surrender is worth waiting for.

some...a very rare few...find that submissive who surrenders to all, who is timid and humble and obedient and does not consider their submission a "gift", or something to be earned, quite a precious treasure indeed. i was fortunate to find that rare breed of Man in my Master.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Found this article which I thought covered a lot of good points for the novice sub to use as a guide when looking for a safe Dominant and not an abuser in disguise.
http://www.mybdsm.com/pages/Charles/

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

bumped for some I know are going through this minefield at the moment and looking for red flags.