Nothing New Under The Sun

[slyc_willie]

I had an idea blossom into my head and for once, began making a sort of pseudo-outline. Not for the plot of the story, but the background. I'm really liking the idea, which concerns a nuclear test, a house in the middle of nowhere, and a bunch of strange, mysterious objects that warp reality in various ways.

And I realize, suddenly, that it's been done before. Not just something like it, but almost the exact same premise.

*sigh*

There are ways I can fix it, of course, and I'm working on that now, but it's a little frustrating to realize that something I've dreamed up is old hat already. That's not really much of a surprise, seeing as how the Internet has allowed for the complete and utter dispersal of just about anything someone has thought of. But it remains frustrating, especially after I've spent a couple hours working out the background details.

And I know there's always room for something new, but generating that sense of true uniqueness has become damn near impossible. If it isn't already in a book, it's in a movie, or TV show, or just some random blogger's attempt at creative writing. Sometimes, it's all of the above. And I'm left with the disheartening thought of, "whatever I can think up has already been done."

It's almost -- almost -- enough to make me give up on an idea. But then that's where the creative juices come into play, and I start coming up with alternate versions of the same basic theme. I've always said I don't try for original concepts, just original versions.

Still, sometimes I wish I'd get that incredible, cohesive, undeniably original concept that has never, ever been contemplated before. Alas, we can dream . . . .

 

[MSTarot]

“Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new after all.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Even the problem is not a new problem.

Me? I've given up on thinking outside the box... I'm just trying to not be thinking in the straight jacket.

 

[slyc_willie]

“Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new after all.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Even the problem is not a new problem.

Me? I've given up on thinking outside the box... I'm just trying to not be thinking in the straight jacket.

Thinking in a straight jacket may not be such a bad idea, actually.

 

[patientlee]

As Selena Gomez says, "It's been said and done. Every beautiful thought's been already sung. And I guess right now here's another one. So your melody will play on and on, with the best of 'em."

 

[Weird Harold]

And I realize, suddenly, that it's been done before. Not just something like it, but almost the exact same premise.

Isn't it said, "there are only seven stories that can be told?"

 

[slyc_willie]

As Selena Gomez says, "It's been said and done. Every beautiful thought's been already sung. And I guess right now here's another one. So your melody will play on and on, with the best of 'em."

I have no idea who that is . . .

Isn't it said, "there are only seven stories that can be told?"

Seven plots, but far more than seven stories. That's what keeps us all going, right?

 

[patientlee]

I have no idea who that is . . .



Seven plots, but far more than seven stories. That's what keeps us all going, right?

http://youtu.be/EgT_us6AsDg

My little guy used to sing this to me.

I love you like a love song, baby.

 

[Swilly]

http://youtu.be/EgT_us6AsDg

My little guy used to sing this to me.

I love you like a love song, baby.

It's a little bittersweet mine have grown out of the Disney Channel. And Nick for the most part.

 

[patientlee]

It's a little bittersweet mine have grown out of the Disney Channel. And Nick for the most part.

My girlie is 11. She wants to watch Game Show Network. The problem is that there is a whole lot of inappropriate for 11 year olds content, so it requires adult supervision. That means I have to watch GSN. YUCK!!

My boys prefer to watch the same Bruins game over and over and over on the DVR.

All in all, it's still better than the Disney Channel!!

 

[Hypoxia]

Depending on the bloviator, we have 1 or 3 or 7 or 20 or 36 basic plots. (See below.) The plots remain the same but the details change. Devil's in the details, right? Go for 'em!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "Basic" Plots in Literature

Example Questions That Can Be Answered Using This FAQ

I’ve heard there are only 7 (or 5, 20, 36…) basic plots (or themes) in all of literature. What are they?

People often say that there are only a certain number of basic plots in all of literature, and that any story is really just a variation on these plots. Depending on how detailed they want to make a "basic" plot, different writers have offered a variety of solutions. Here are some of the ones we’ve found:

1 Plot | 3 Plots | 7 Plots | 20 Plots | 36 Plots
_____

1 Plot:

Attempts to find the number of basic plots in literature cannot be resolved any more tightly than to describe a single basic plot. Foster-Harris claims that all plots stem from conflict. He describes this in terms of what the main character feels:

"I have an inner conflict of emotions, feelings.... What, in any case, can I do to resolve the inner problems?" (p. 30-31)

This is in accord with the canonical view that the basic elements of plot revolve around a problem dealt with in sequence:

"Exposition - Rising Action - Climax - Falling Action - Denouement".

(Such description of plot can be found in many places, including: Holman, C. Hugh and William Harmon. A Handbook to Literature. 6th ed. New York: Macmillan Publishing Co, 1992.) Foster-Harris’ main argument is for 3 Plots (which are contained within this one), described below.
_____

3 Plots:

Foster-Harris. The Basic Patterns of Plot. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1959. Foster-Harris contends that there are three basic patterns of plot (p. 66):

1 "’Type A, happy ending’"; Foster-Harris argues that the "Type A" pattern results when the central character (which he calls the "I-nitial" character) makes a sacrifice (a decision that seems logically "wrong") for the sake of another.

2 "’Type B, unhappy ending’"; this pattern follows when the "I-nitial" character does what seems logically "right" and thus fails to make the needed sacrifice.

3 "’Type C,’ the literary plot, in which, no matter whether we start from the happy or the unhappy fork, proceeding backwards we arrive inevitably at the question, where we stop to wail." This pattern requires more explanation (Foster-Harris devotes a chapter to the literary plot.) In short, the "literary plot" is one that does not hinge upon decision, but fate; in it, the critical event takes place at the beginning of the story rather than the end. What follows from that event is inevitable, often tragedy. (This in fact coincides with the classical Greek notion of tragedy, which is that such events are fated and inexorable.)
_____

7 Plots

7 basic plots as remembered from second grade by IPL volunteer librarian Jessamyn West:

[wo]man vs. nature
[wo]man vs. [wo]man
[wo]man vs. the environment
[wo]man vs. machines/technology
[wo]man vs. the supernatural
[wo]man vs. self
[wo]man vs. god/religion
_____

20 Plots:

Tobias, Ronald B. 20 Master Plots. Cincinnati: Writer’s Digest Books, 1993. (ISBN 0-89879-595-8)

This book proposes twenty basic plots:

Quest
Adventure
Pursuit
Rescue
Escape
Revenge
The Riddle
Rivalry
Underdog
Temptation
Metamorphosis
Transformation
Maturation
Love
Forbidden Love
Sacrifice
Discovery
Wretched Excess
Ascension
Descension.
_____

36 Plots

Polti, Georges. The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations. trans. Lucille Ray.

Polti claims to be trying to reconstruct the 36 plots that Goethe alleges someone named [Carlo] Gozzi came up with. (In the following list, the words in parentheses are our annotations to try to explain some of the less helpful titles.):

Supplication (in which the Supplicant must beg something from Power in authority)
Deliverance
Crime Pursued by Vengeance
Vengeance taken for kindred upon kindred
Pursuit
Disaster
Falling Prey to Cruelty of Misfortune
Revolt
Daring Enterprise
Abduction
The Enigma (temptation or a riddle)
Obtaining
Enmity of Kinsmen
Rivalry of Kinsmen
Murderous Adultery
Madness
Fatal Imprudence
Involuntary Crimes of Love (example: discovery that one has married one’s mother, sister, etc.)
Slaying of a Kinsman Unrecognized
Self-Sacrificing for an Ideal
Self-Sacrifice for Kindred
All Sacrificed for Passion
Necessity of Sacrificing Loved Ones
Rivalry of Superior and Inferior
Adultery
Crimes of Love
Discovery of the Dishonor of a Loved One
Obstacles to Love
An Enemy Loved
Ambition
Conflict with a God
Mistaken Jealousy
Erroneous Judgement
Remorse
Recovery of a Lost One
Loss of Loved Ones.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

But the internet and the pool of existing knowledge put us head and shoulders above all of history.

Copernicus had to work his ass off, and brown-nose the pope like a champ just to get the idea across that maybe the earth actually orbits the sun, yo.

Several years later, Gallileo invents the telescope, confirms copernicus as a warm-up exercise before going on to discover phases of venus, sun spots, storms on Jupiter, and other wonderful things.

'If I have seen so much farther, it is because I have stood upon the shoulders of giants.'

With the knowledge pool, we have a higher starting point.

 

[Swilly]

Don't forget that whatever you read on the internet is true. Including this.

 

[lovecraft68]

Almost impossible to be completely original these days.

Look around, movies, music, books. Everything is a sequel a reboot, a remake..... even comic books, there's no new characters in the mainstream comics, just "Okay, let's go back and have Spiderman become Spiderman this way....Let's make the green Lantern Gay, lets....

But what you can do is take your idea that may have been done before and put your stamp and spin on it. Make it yours. Like buying a car someone else has, but tricking it out your way.

I can honestly say there is no series on lit(or anywhere else that I have read) that is like my SWB series. Does it have elements that have been done before? Of course it does, several of them, but as a whole you won't find anything else like it here.

 

[Hypoxia]

'If I have seen so much farther, it is because I have stood upon the shoulders of giants.'

That was a snide remark by Newton. His main rival was a dwarf.

But I digress. Is much originality out there. Is inevitable. Zillions more people means mega-zillions more ideas and discoveries and developments. Much is based on creative theft, new re-weavings of old threads and patterns. We all depend on the language and plotlines we have experienced. We plagiarize creatively. Don't deny it -- you've done it too.

But the TRULY novel ideas don't implant into society for years or generations. They're ignored until they overwhelm. And then, they're commonplace and ubiquitous.

Also consider: We now have access to infinitely (uncountably) more info than was available just over a generation ago. That trove includes zillions of cultures. I can almost instantly draw forth words, sounds, images of peoples worldwide, and their histories. My rare, treasured 78's of Tongan tribal chants and Assyrian liturgy are redundant, when I can grab those sounds from LibCongress or Smithsonian websites. And I can just as easily grab Dravidian or Hmong or Mayan or Dineh folk tales, absorb the stories, and build some erotica on them, if I wish.

Sol may shine on nothing new, but infinitely-complex human consciousness can focus that light on previously-obscure places.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

My girlie is 11. She wants to watch Game Show Network. The problem is that there is a whole lot of inappropriate for 11 year olds content, so it requires adult supervision. That means I have to watch GSN. YUCK!!

My boys prefer to watch the same Bruins game over and over and over on the DVR.

All in all, it's still better than the Disney Channel!!

My two granddaughters would watch Happy Feet over and over and over and over and over...or Sponge Bob. Oh my god! I hate Happy Feet...and Sponge Bob.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

"When I’m writing novels I’m painfully aware that I’m working in a medium that people have been writing absolutely jaw-droppingly brilliant things for, you know, three to four thousand years now. You know, you can go back. We have things like The Golden Ass. And you go, well, I don’t know that I’m as good as that and that’s two and a half thousand years old." --Neil Gaiman--

 

[Seanathon]

I had an idea blossom into my head and for once, began making a sort of pseudo-outline. Not for the plot of the story, but the background. I'm really liking the idea, which concerns a nuclear test, a house in the middle of nowhere, and a bunch of strange, mysterious objects that warp reality in various ways.

And I realize, suddenly, that it's been done before. Not just something like it, but almost the exact same premise.

*sigh*

A story may have been written before, but no one's ever written it the way you'll write it. Look at Romeo and Juliet and West Side Story. The same story but worlds apart. I say go for it - make the story yours.

 

[robertreams]

About three times a year I run into a product or adaptation of an existing idea That I thought I was the originator of,, Problem is, I can't draw and I don't knoe electronics.
\
But here is a device I invented (in my head) that you can all have to see who can produce the prototype and get the patent. One catch though, When you reach the first million in saies (not profit)you need to give me tengrand. Okay here it is. A multi function dildo, or maybe two cojoined vibrators one can wear inside oneself. Your lover can call a special number from anywhere and the device within you is activated. Different numbers entered could activate different functions, eg slow med fast rotate, plunge.

 

[Bramblethorn]

About three times a year I run into a product or adaptation of an existing idea That I thought I was the originator of,, Problem is, I can't draw and I don't knoe electronics.
\
But here is a device I invented (in my head) that you can all have to see who can produce the prototype and get the patent. One catch though, When you reach the first million in saies (not profit)you need to give me tengrand. Okay here it is. A multi function dildo, or maybe two cojoined vibrators one can wear inside oneself. Your lover can call a special number from anywhere and the device within you is activated. Different numbers entered could activate different functions, eg slow med fast rotate, plunge.

Too late.

http://www.vibease.com/

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That was a snide remark by Newton. His main rival was a dwarf.

But I digress. Is much originality out there. Is inevitable. Zillions more people means mega-zillions more ideas and discoveries and developments. Much is based on creative theft, new re-weavings of old threads and patterns. We all depend on the language and plotlines we have experienced. We plagiarize creatively. Don't deny it -- you've done it too.

But the TRULY novel ideas don't implant into society for years or generations. They're ignored until they overwhelm. And then, they're commonplace and ubiquitous.

Also consider: We now have access to infinitely (uncountably) more info than was available just over a generation ago. That trove includes zillions of cultures. I can almost instantly draw forth words, sounds, images of peoples worldwide, and their histories. My rare, treasured 78's of Tongan tribal chants and Assyrian liturgy are redundant, when I can grab those sounds from LibCongress or Smithsonian websites. And I can just as easily grab Dravidian or Hmong or Mayan or Dineh folk tales, absorb the stories, and build some erotica on them, if I wish.

Sol may shine on nothing new, but infinitely-complex human consciousness can focus that light on previously-obscure places.

Almost all human endeavors involve the quest for excuses, justification, theft, and blame.

 

[Hypoxia]

Almost all human endeavors involve the quest for excuses, justification, theft, and blame.

And it's all your fault.

 

[49greg]

Hollywood certainly seems to think that there are a limited number of stories to be told. Just look at how many remakes they do, sometimes under the same title, sometimes under a new one.

 

[slyc_willie]

Depending on the bloviator, we have 1 or 3 or 7 or 20 or 36 basic plots. (See below.) The plots remain the same but the details change. Devil's in the details, right? Go for 'em!

Bonus points for "bloviator."

I've seen those lists, and others, before. And a good story is indeed all about the details.

A story may have been written before, but no one's ever written it the way you'll write it. Look at Romeo and Juliet and West Side Story. The same story but worlds apart. I say go for it - make the story yours.

Which is what I, and everyone else here, does on a daily basis. And no one will write a story that's exactly like mine. But it does get my ire up -- at least a little -- when I get a comment or feedback along the lines of "I've read this story before," or "this reminds me of X." But that really can't be helped, can it?

Hollywood certainly seems to think that there are a limited number of stories to be told. Just look at how many remakes they do, sometimes under the same title, sometimes under a new one.

I don't think I would go so far as to put all the blame on Hollywood. There's always been an audience for remakes. people like to see their favorite characters over and over again. But Hollywood does have a tendency to go overboard with the process.

 

[Hypoxia]

Bonus points for "bloviator."

The new normalcy.

I don't think I would go so far as to put all the blame on Hollywood. There's always been an audience for remakes. people like to see their favorite characters over and over again. But Hollywood does have a tendency to go overboard with the process.

Let's use H'wood as a metaphor for industrial-size entertainment. Any industry runs on money. Any entertainment formula that 'works' will be overused relentlessly by the eyeball-grabbing bizness. Dime novels and other pulp fiction; music, from opera to pop; cine / video stuff; even sports, politics, and religion as entertainment. (Entertainment: what humans do to organize and occupy their time when they aren't being productive.) Formulae survive as long as they sell.

The result? Lotsa crap. Just recall Sturgeon's Law: 95% of everything is crap. (And don't forget Sturgeon's Creed: In the winter I'm a Buddhist, in the summer I'm a nudist.) (Hey, that's a good plot bunny!)

 

[Stella_Omega]

I had an idea blossom into my head and for once, began making a sort of pseudo-outline. Not for the plot of the story, but the background. I'm really liking the idea, which concerns a nuclear test, a house in the middle of nowhere, and a bunch of strange, mysterious objects that warp reality in various ways.

And I realize, suddenly, that it's been done before. Not just something like it, but almost the exact same premise.

<snip>. . . .

I could swear I have seen this same post before.

I'm not joking-- I checked the timestamp expecting it to be revived from a few years back!