Non fiction- Incest Reality.

[ishtat]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/childrenr-emoved-after-generations-of-incest-20131206-2ywrt.html

Information from other sources indicates this is an extended Aboriginal family, illiterate, without work or education, living in poverty and ill health for at least 3 generations in one of the half dozen wealthiest countries in the world.

They will lose their kids, the kids will lose their parents- broken lives. And for 30 seconds it will be shock/horror on the 6 o'clock news. Any further comment seems inadequate.

 

[lovecraft68]

Really a shame and shows how much of a fantasy aspect the incest stories here have.

Nothing sexy here just tragic.

What this story also represents is how Flowers in the attic would really turn out.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

This isn't new. It's old. A few years ago a whole community was taken over by the Government because of it. Of concern is that these people are on the internet accessing this stuff. It's not only the aboriginal people either. Every country has pockets of it= white black, and the children often end up in care because they have problems. I wrote here some time ago why I don't like incest writing and had replies that I had no idea what I was talking about. Kids who lack sufficient coordination to be independent and so on. The list of problems can be extensive. I hate it that people write about incest as though it's fun. To me it's just extremely cheap and very nasty.

To me it's irresponsible to write it as though it's good. It's also a poor way of getting stories read. A good author doesn't need to write it. I'd take the whole category out if I had any say. I don't like prohibition but perhaps it would give some indication that it isn't a good topic. At least with bestiality there are no children to contemplate. It's banned. Why not incest- which is worse? Don't go thinking I like bestiality either. I don't.

 

[RejectReality]

I don't like prohibition but perhaps it would give some indication that it isn't a good topic. At least with bestiality there are no children to contemplate. It's banned. Why not incest- which is worse? Don't go thinking I like bestiality either. I don't.

Uhm... at least incest is human. Worse? Really?

And you're treating it as if it's going to convert people. It's a story - whether it's Fido or Mom. Anyone who follows through with something like that was predisposed prior to exposure to "dangerous literature" or just plain not right in the head.

Following this line of thinking, we should ban most of the stories on Lit, because they encourage a sexual lifestyle that can be downright dangerous. Glory holes. Hook-ups. One night stands. Spur of the moment college orgies. Nary a condom or moment's thought about unwanted pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases to be found.

This is no different than the most fundamentalist argument against any depiction of sexual activity as degenerate and dangerous.

Or rock-and-roll.

Or Dungeons and Dragons.

Or video games.

Sorry, but the whole thing is just absurd.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

Uhm... at least incest is human. Worse? Really?

And you're treating it as if it's going to convert people. It's a story - whether it's Fido or Mom. Anyone who follows through with something like that was predisposed prior to exposure to "dangerous literature" or just plain not right in the head.

Following this line of thinking, we should ban most of the stories on Lit, because they encourage a sexual lifestyle that can be downright dangerous. Glory holes. Hook-ups. One night stands. Spur of the moment college orgies. Nary a condom or moment's thought about unwanted pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases to be found.

This is no different than the most fundamentalist argument against any depiction of sexual activity as degenerate and dangerous.

Or rock-and-roll.

Or Dungeons and Dragons.

Or video games.


Sorry, but the whole thing is just absurd.

Yeah, I understand, guilt is a horrible thing. Your defense is inadequate.

 

[RejectReality]

So, the overwhelming number of stories on here featuring unprotected sex without consequences are harmless fun, but incest stories without consequences are dangerous because family fucking is a much more widespread problem in the real world than unprotected sex.

Gotcha.

I'd watch my balance if I were you. They make soapboxes out of cardboard nowadays. They just don't hold up like the old wooden ones did

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

Still inadequate.

 

[RejectReality]

Yes, because you've presented so much evidence to make your case

So, the stories about unprotected sex without consequences are fine and dandy, then?

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

How much evidence do you need? What is more difficult is to present evidence there is no harm.

 

[RejectReality]

True, you can't prove a negative.

However, you haven't presented the slightest argument that supports the case that such stories are in any way harmful, either. The one and only thing you've said is that real-life incest usually turns out really, really bad.

I'll give you that.

What's it got to do with the stories here?

The site's chock full of stories that demonstrate no consequences for actions that in real life usually turn out horrible, but you have nothing to say about those. I bet if I pursued your story list, I could easily find numerous things that have enormous potential to turn out horribly in reality, but which end all peachy-keen in your fiction.

Are you promoting bad behavior, or are you just writing a story?

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

In a lot of stories here there is advocacy for incest. I contend that not everyone is able to separate it from reality. It is a question, as to whether people are affected by what they've seen on the internet, that hasn't yet been answered well. I suspect though that answers are coming. I worked for a very long time with results of incest. It's not nice. I fail to understand why others aren't disturbed by it too. One day I anticipate every child will have their DNA charted. It will make medical care easier for the rest of their lives. It will be interesting to see whether incest will be prosecuted through it. It is illegal here. I suspect it is for you too.

Of course there are many issues that should be addressed. No one is perfect. But I thought this thread was about incest and what has happened in NSW. For the record, I don't like the death penalty. But that has little or no bearing about my stance with incest. The article presented here is only one. There have been many others. There have even been much publicised government inquiries into it and in them frequent mention of the internet was made. Pedophilia is a big issue now. What do you think will be next? I think incest will be in the running. To see the people in prison because of it is illuminating.

 

[Handley_Page]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/childrenr-emoved-after-generations-of-incest-20131206-2ywrt.html

Information from other sources indicates this is an extended Aboriginal family, illiterate, without work or education, living in poverty and ill health for at least 3 generations in one of the half dozen wealthiest countries in the world.

They will lose their kids, the kids will lose their parents- broken lives. And for 30 seconds it will be shock/horror on the 6 o'clock news. Any further comment seems inadequate.

I hope the kids grow properly and well-led.
We had a case like that a while ago in my local town. It had started with Grandad and ran 3 or 4 generations. Opinion was that if he'd been in public, he would not have survived for long, as would his kids.

We live in a fantasy world.
Let's leave it at that eh ?
The reality is too horrible to think of.

 

[RejectReality]

In a lot of stories here there is advocacy for incest. I contend that not everyone is able to separate it from reality. It is a question, as to whether people are affected by what they've seen on the internet, that hasn't yet been answered well.

You do realize you're making my point for me, don't you? If incest fiction that portrays it in a positive light is responsible for people doing it in real life, then all the stories of unprotected sex, infidelity, having sex in zoo enclosures, and everything else that demonstrates no consequences for behavior that's seriously risky in the real world are likewise to blame for the evils of society.

If someone can't distinguish fiction from reality, that is the problem, and not the fiction.

Your argument is one that would see the Beatles in jail for the actions of Charles Manson.

 

[lovecraft68]

Incest is the number one fantasy in erotica period.

You see it here with the number of views and votes.

You see it on amazon where before they banned it, Incest was the number one seller within the erotica genre. YOu still see it as Pseudo incest has now replaced it as such.

It sells like wildfire on Barnes and Noble nook as well.

You see it in porn. There are tons of step mommy, step daddy porn series and videos and even some where they do pretend they are family.

Taboo is one of if not the top x-rated flick of all time.

On a reality level, yes it is horrible especially when you see it being generational like in this story because bottom line this "wave" of that family literally does not know better.

But in fantasy incest is your number one dirty little secret fantasy.

Make of that what you will.

 

[lovecraft68]

Something I do want to mention and this is probably a good thread to do it in is this.

There are 2 categories on lit that are "crimes" incest and non consent(the full out rape stories not reluctance tales) everything else is just different kinks, but legal ones.

For me-and this won;t be a rant just an opinion-non con is written here as the exact crime it is in real life, in many stories even more horrific and violent then r/l/. Incest and mostly due to the 18 and over rule is very fantasy based. adult siblings, adult offspring with parents and as I said above almost always "fluffy" so vastly different from the article we just read.

I do write incest I think its fun and that is that, I have no other thoughts except the taboo of someone having sex with(and loving because most of my stuff has emotional currents not just sex) the person you are not supposed to gets me hot, its a personal kink.

But I will admit here that more than once I have received comments through feedback that are so depraved I have questioned whether or not I want to keep writing these stories.

I did a father daughter story here that involved rough sex. It was totally consensual (I'm not going to explain it other than a good time was had by all from start to finish) but I get an e-mail the gist of which was

"Reminds me of the first time I took my daughter. It was just as rough because she fought me quite a bit, but the next time was easier and after awhile she really liked it."

I was upset. I mean like really disturbed to the point had they sent me a valid e-mail)(it was anon of course) I would have given it to a friend who is a detective in NY.

It could have been a lie. It reeked of the "incest is best" thread here. Which speaking of, enough reading in that thread could stop anyone from writing/reading these stories.

Eventually I decided that these stories are written in the spirit of fun and 99% or more of the people reading know that and if a person is that sick they will do it with or without me. After all that e-mail was about something already done.

But it is a slippery slope and I still get that shudder once in awhile.

There is an author here who on their home page not only claims all stories are real, but laments the fact her son would not have sex with her daughter, says it was a shame he saw her as his little sister.

But that could,be smoke to score reads and comments.

Reject reality has a point of D&D and Rock and everything else. Remember The Matrix was at one point blamed for Columbine.

end of the day a sicko is a sicko and that sickness is inevitable. I write my stories as fun if someone takes it for more than that it is not on me. But again I freely admit to occasional doubts. I have not written a father/daughter story since.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

Thank you for your honesty, Lovecraft. I realise it is a dilemma. In a perfect world fantasy wouldn't be confused with reality. Unfortunately the world isn't perfect and what we do has to be modified accordingly. That you have modified what you do according to the results you have seen and be able to talk about it is admirable. Thank you.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Something I do want to mention and this is probably a good thread to do it in is this.

There are 2 categories on lit that are "crimes" incest and non consent(the full out rape stories not reluctance tales) everything else is just different kinks, but legal ones.

For me-and this won;t be a rant just an opinion-non con is written here as the exact crime it is in real life, in many stories even more horrific and violent then r/l/. Incest and mostly due to the 18 and over rule is very fantasy based. adult siblings, adult offspring with parents and as I said above almost always "fluffy" so vastly different from the article we just read.

I do write incest I think its fun and that is that, I have no other thoughts except the taboo of someone having sex with(and loving because most of my stuff has emotional currents not just sex) the person you are not supposed to gets me hot, its a personal kink.

But I will admit here that more than once I have received comments through feedback that are so depraved I have questioned whether or not I want to keep writing these stories.

I did a father daughter story here that involved rough sex. It was totally consensual (I'm not going to explain it other than a good time was had by all from start to finish) but I get an e-mail the gist of which was

"Reminds me of the first time I took my daughter. It was just as rough because she fought me quite a bit, but the next time was easier and after awhile she really liked it."

I was upset. I mean like really disturbed to the point had they sent me a valid e-mail)(it was anon of course) I would have given it to a friend who is a detective in NY.

It could have been a lie. It reeked of the "incest is best" thread here. Which speaking of, enough reading in that thread could stop anyone from writing/reading these stories.

Eventually I decided that these stories are written in the spirit of fun and 99% or more of the people reading know that and if a person is that sick they will do it with or without me. After all that e-mail was about something already done.

But it is a slippery slope and I still get that shudder once in awhile.

There is an author here who on their home page not only claims all stories are real, but laments the fact her son would not have sex with her daughter, says it was a shame he saw her as his little sister.

But that could,be smoke to score reads and comments.

Reject reality has a point of D&D and Rock and everything else. Remember The Matrix was at one point blamed for Columbine.

end of the day a sicko is a sicko and that sickness is inevitable. I write my stories as fun if someone takes it for more than that it is not on me. But again I freely admit to occasional doubts. I have not written a father/daughter story since.

I feel your pain. Readers hate it when I write about fly shit. But its sooo cool and doesn't stink.

 

[3113]

They will lose their kids, the kids will lose their parents- broken lives. And for 30 seconds it will be shock/horror on the 6 o'clock news. Any further comment seems inadequate.

Um, well, lets be fair here. Reading the article it says that they were taken away from their parents *before* it was known that there was incest. They're malnourished and suffering from all kinds of things—and that is why they were taken away.

We will grant, however, that the incest has become an issue and it ought not be an issue if it was between consenting adults. The mothers don't see that they've done anything wrong having a child by their brothers, and why should society keep them from their kids for that?

As for being poor, illiterate and aboriginal, and this way for generations, etc. Again, we will grant that their circumstances may not have made them aware of how to better care for their children, and someone should have intervened generations before this. But I think you'll grant, as well, that the kids couldn't be left in that situation—malnourished, etc.

 

[desertslave]

Uhm... at least incest is human. Worse? Really?

And you're treating it as if it's going to convert people. It's a story - whether it's Fido or Mom. Anyone who follows through with something like that was predisposed prior to exposure to "dangerous literature" or just plain not right in the head.

Following this line of thinking, we should ban most of the stories on Lit, because they encourage a sexual lifestyle that can be downright dangerous. Glory holes. Hook-ups. One night stands. Spur of the moment college orgies. Nary a condom or moment's thought about unwanted pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases to be found.

This is no different than the most fundamentalist argument against any depiction of sexual activity as degenerate and dangerous.

Or rock-and-roll.

Or Dungeons and Dragons.

Or video games.

Sorry, but the whole thing is just absurd.

There's a huge difference which you seem to be ignoring in this and your subsequent posts: consenting adults. Other versions of the aboriginal story indicate that fathers and brothers were raping daughters/sisters in their youth. No adult consent. That's the primary issue with real-life incest. It's very rarely a matter of both parties being adults and saying let's get it on. It's adults forcing themselves on children, and that is the very wrong thing. Same deal with bestiality, consent is impossible.

What informed, consenting adults do, including unprotected sex, will never bother me as much as any situation where the opportunity for consent is taken away or impossible.

 

[RejectReality]

There's a huge difference which you seem to be ignoring in this and your subsequent posts: consenting adults. Other versions of the aboriginal story indicate that fathers and brothers were raping daughters/sisters in their youth. No adult consent. That's the primary issue with real-life incest. It's very rarely a matter of both parties being adults and saying let's get it on. It's adults forcing themselves on children, and that is the very wrong thing. Same deal with bestiality, consent is impossible.

What informed, consenting adults do, including unprotected sex, will never bother me as much as any situation where the opportunity for consent is taken away or impossible.

And that has what to do with the stories here?

Hoo's whole argument is that the incest stories here which overwhelmingly lean toward consensual ( just look at the comments on anything that isn't. It's not well received, to say the least ) and ( theoretically, barring stories that slip through the cracks ) have only 18+ adults are going to brainwash people into real-life incest because they present it in a positive light, and therefore deserve to be banned.

My argument is that all manner of dangerous activity is depicted here in a positive light, and singling out the one genre as "dangerous" betrays a personal vendetta that completely ignores the same cause->effect he's attempting to assign to incest.

 

[lovecraft68]

My argument is that all manner of dangerous activity is depicted here in a positive light, and singling out the one genre as "dangerous" betrays a personal vendetta that completely ignores the same cause->effect he's attempting to assign to incest.

The non consent here is portrayed as the exact dangerous crime here as it is in real life. A rape story here are true rape scenarios in real life.

Women walking alone and getting dragged into an alley and raped. Women being drugged and sold into sexual slavery where they are raped repeatedly

That is reality and what is gleefully written about in that category with the full blessing of the person that tries to claim otherwise who's last mention of her rule was

Women can be hurt men cannot

which was happily posted by a mod with hardcore rape fantasies.

Now, do these stories cause people to rape people? That I cannot say.

But they are portrayed as the crime they are is my point.

 

[sr71plt]

And that has what to do with the stories here?

What? You're claiming that illiterate Australian Aboriginals don't make up a major reading group at Literotica?

 

[lovecraft68]

^^^^^
A person who lives exclusively in their own reality.

 

[sr71plt]

Guess you just have to have someone to stalk to feel halfway adequate, right, LC?

I laughed at your comment elsewhere that all of your stories are set in Rhode Island. Of course, they are. You've never been anywhere else. And you keep your stories in the family because, again, you've never been anywhere else.

 

[MSTarot]

To me this seems like two arguments not one.

Incest...sex between people closely related

and non consensual sex between an adult and a child. (Whether related or not)

The first really probably doesn't happy as often as we write about it. But... a lot of people carry a fantasy or two about it tucked away in their minds. So it's popular. It lets people think back and go "Hum, i wish i could have done that."

The second is a sick twisted reality, that I'm sorry to say happens far to often, and has nothing to do with love, or in truth not even really sex. But with power over those weaker, domination and the destruction of innocence.

It is often the result of that same kind of thing having happen to them as a child. A vicious cycle that will I'm afraid not be broken in the future, near or far.

I do write incest. I have 14 stories in that category I think. All but one of them has to do with someone in a tragic point in their lives turning to a close family member for help and finding love.

All but one. That one is a story called 'Shivering' and it is with pure intent the darkest and harshest story I've ever written. It has one of my lowest scores and gets terrible comments. I would consider taking it down but it is a powerful story that tells the 'story' I wanted to tell.

I have two non-consent stories, they are the same thing. The story required what happened in them to be the 'story' I was trying to write.

Now, a story about an adult having sex with a child? I wouldn't write that for no amount of money... and yet there are authors that do that very thing. That make a very good living doing that in fact.

They work for the TV networks.


Ban incest on Lit? No.

Want to ban something? How about banning the marketing of sexual child abuse. Stop making TV shows that use it as the plot for almost every episode. That would be a good place to start.

It still wouldn't be enough though. Not even close.