Non-Con/Reluctance Editor Needed

[SummerStar]

I'm writing my first erotic story, and I'm looking for an editor to give me a lot of feedback. I'm not only looking to better my story, but to learn how to become a better writer as well. I tend to be short on detail, and would like for someone to help me with that. That is the main thing.

The story is currently unfinished, and around 700 words. I'd be glad to send what I have as a sample.

The basic plot is this: A man has kidnapped a woman, and is holding her captive. He is madly in love with her, and has been watching her for over a year. He is keeping her in a mansion on a private island. He is going to drug her with aphrodisiac with each meal, and if she refuses to eat (he tells her almost all of his plans) will render her unconscious and inject it into her. He will do this, with the aphrodisiac's effect growing stronger each time, until she is unable to say no to him.

I have ideas for sub-plots along the way, and would be willing for more ideas, and collaboration.

 

[Firebrain]

Just so's you know; that's not non-consent. That's rape. Some readers can't tell the difference, but the point about non-consent is that really, she/he wants it. The subtext is there.

If she's being drugged...well, no. We can assume that she does not want it.

 

[Firebrain]

While that may be true Firebrain, you only need to read a number of stories in the Non-consent category to realize that both types of stories are accepted. The non-consent category contains MANY stories that would fall under the rape category.

YOur story sounds interesting and I think it is ok to seek an editor's opinion.

Love Rachel

Yes, they're both accepted. I've seen some stories featuring fifteen year-olds fucking, too.

It's always worth pointing out when there's some actual rape going on, mind.

 

[Sensualdreamer]

Just so's you know; that's not non-consent. That's rape. Some readers can't tell the difference, but the point about non-consent is that really, she/he wants it. The subtext is there.

If she's being drugged...well, no. We can assume that she does not want it.

That's your opinion and as such it's also wrong. Lit has a designated area called non-consent/reluctance. Non-consent is a softer way of saying rape. Reluctance is different than non-consent.

 

[Sensualdreamer]

I'm writing my first erotic story, and I'm looking for an editor to give me a lot of feedback. I'm not only looking to better my story, but to learn how to become a better writer as well. I tend to be short on detail, and would like for someone to help me with that. That is the main thing.

The story is currently unfinished, and around 700 words. I'd be glad to send what I have as a sample.

The basic plot is this: A man has kidnapped a woman, and is holding her captive. He is madly in love with her, and has been watching her for over a year. He is keeping her in a mansion on a private island. He is going to drug her with aphrodisiac with each meal, and if she refuses to eat (he tells her almost all of his plans) will render her unconscious and inject it into her. He will do this, with the aphrodisiac's effect growing stronger each time, until she is unable to say no to him.

I have ideas for sub-plots along the way, and would be willing for more ideas, and collaboration.

PM me, I've written a non-consent/reluctance story, and I'm working on a second of the same genre...I'll take a look at it.

 

[Firebrain]

Non-consent is rape fantasy -- which is also different from reluctance. Rape is just...rape. The two are very, very different things. I'm not wrong there; hell, ask anyone who's actually been raped.

I'm not suggesting that the OP doesn't look for an editor; I'm just pointing it out.

 

[Sensualdreamer]

Just so's you know; that's not non-consent. That's rape. Some readers can't tell the difference, but the point about non-consent is that really, she/he wants it. The subtext is there.

If she's being drugged...well, no. We can assume that she does not want it.

That's your opinion and as such it's also wrong. Lit has a designated area called non-consent/reluctance. Non-consent is a softer way of saying rape. Reluctance is different than non-consent.

Non-consent is rape fantasy -- which is also different from reluctance. Rape is just...rape. The two are very, very different things. I'm not wrong there; hell, ask anyone who's actually been raped.

I'm not suggesting that the OP doesn't look for an editor; I'm just pointing it out.

You have a very dizzying intellect. In reading your first reply and subsequentially your last reply, you've got the two mixed up, not to mention, you've slightly contradicted yourself. FOCUS huh?!

Non-consent is NOT when a person wants it! That's reluctance!
Non-consent IS rape b/c an individual is not capable of consenting - be it due to intoxication, being drugged etc., Look it up huh?!

Rape fantasy would be better described as consensual roleplay as opposed to non-consent

~~~~~

Read what I just wrote, and if you still think that non-consent (real life or fiction) is merely rape fantasy, then you're seriously mis-understanding something somewhere, and I would encourage you to re-read it...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to clue in.

 

[Firebrain]

I could write an essay, but you're rather rude and apparently, a bit dim.

I've not contradicted myself anywhere. If you don't know the difference between rape and rape fantasy then you're a bit beyond me.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, to make "nonconsent" anything but rape, I think you have to assume caveats that aren't in the original term. What does "nonsent" mean if it doesn't mean a "no"?

And the Web site permits nonconsent. So, I think the difference between aceptable (to this Web site) between nonconsent and rape would need to be an acceptance of the act after it was completed and a willingness to do it again with the same partner. And this isn't the same as reluctance, I don't think.

It's all walking on the head of a pin, of course.

 

[Firebrain]

Well, to make "nonconsent" anything but rape, I think you have to assume caveats that aren't in the original term. What does "nonsent" mean if it doesn't mean a "no"?

Of course non-consent implies rape (implies is the sticking point though, no? Even if some take it to mean the same thing, it's not the same word. And that's important). But it implies the fantasy of rape, because we're on an erotic fantasy site. The fantasy of rape is that on some level -- she might not voice it, she may cry, may fight back -- she wants it. There is desire. I'm not talking about two lovers setting up a roleplay with a safety word, but a very common fantasy that women often put into words. It's the ultimate validation.

And the Web site permits nonconsent. So, I think the difference between aceptable (to this Web site) between nonconsent and rape would need to be an acceptance of the act after it was completed and a willingness to do it again with the same partner. And this isn't the same as reluctance, I don't think.

It's all walking on the head of a pin, of course.

Indeed. The website doesn't permit stories where lovers are dismembering or abusing each other (There's no Wifebeating category, is there? It's the same thing. BDSM is a very different subject, though also often written badly/incorrectly), though. Actual rape -- where there is no desire present, when she does not want it at all -- is not erotic (at least, not for her. It might be for him, but it's also a criminal act). Actual rape is abuse, and this is why there is a different term. Lit seems to allow most things that take place between two consenting adults...actual rape is not one of these things.

The fact that some people confuse this worries me; that a woman might acknowledge her fantasy and think, well, I must want to be raped. No, not really. That's not what she wants. Actual rape leaves people emotionally damaged and needing counselling for years; show me a woman who actively desires that? Then we have people who think they want to write a rape story, based off such a misapprehension: bingo. Rather dodgy story (in exactly the same vein that some people write BDSM with dodgy practises that are ill-informed).

It might be that the OP's story is a lot more detailed than I know, and that in this case, it is non-consent. To me, though, it did not sound like that.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Well, to make "nonconsent" anything but rape, I think you have to assume caveats that aren't in the original term. What does "nonsent" mean if it doesn't mean a "no"?

And the Web site permits nonconsent. So, I think the difference between aceptable (to this Web site) between nonconsent and rape would need to be an acceptance of the act after it was completed and a willingness to do it again with the same partner. And this isn't the same as reluctance, I don't think.

It's all walking on the head of a pin, of course.

Why are we having this discussion?

I mean, REALLY.

Laurel reads EACH and EVERY one of these stories -- whatever tedious task that might be, bless her soul. There's no software 'boyd FYI

Or should be thanking her over and over.

 

[sr71plt]

Why are we having this discussion?

I have no idea what the relevance of this is to the discussion the OP started.

And of course Laurel doesn't read "every" submission close enough to catch whether each story follows all of the posting rules. That's why the selection Bot gets it wrong so often in those "does it?" questions it based initial rejections of perfectly acceptable stories on--and why some that clearly don't meet the rules get posted.

(And thought you did the dying swan routine and left the forum forever just yesterday.)

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Laurel reads EACH and EVERY one of these stories -- whatever tedious task that might be, bless her soul. ...

AS:
If you believe that ONE person reads upwards of 50 stories per day at something over 4000 words/story average 365 days per year, then you would believe anything. Just do the maths 50 × 4000 words / 120 words per min = 1667 minutes = 27 hours 47min per day (and that is without any allowance for tea breaks or recording results/decisions).

 

[talismania]

Of course non-consent implies rape (implies is the sticking point though, no? Even if some take it to mean the same thing, it's not the same word. And that's important). But it implies the fantasy of rape, because we're on an erotic fantasy site. The fantasy of rape is that on some level -- she might not voice it, she may cry, may fight back -- she wants it. There is desire. I'm not talking about two lovers setting up a roleplay with a safety word, but a very common fantasy that women often put into words. It's the ultimate validation.

It's the old "he/she wants it" and at the same time "he/she doesn't want it" dynamic that's so erotic. The erotic element resides in the stress between wanting and not wanting--on both sides of the sexual act. Even in rape fantasy, there's a strong element of the victim not wanting what is being done, and that element is the whole point of the fantasy, which is one of having no control over the sex act. As you say, the ultimate validation . . . I really like that line. That's precisely what's going on.

No reasonable person advocates actual rape, and I doubt the OP was doing so. A lot of people, however, enjoy exploring the realm of rape fantasy. As a shortcut, most people will leave off the fantasy part of it and just say "rape" even when they mean erotic forced sex. That's why I tend to cut a lot of slack in these kinds of posts. It's important to keep the distinction between actual rape and erotic "rape" in mind, and important to have discussions like this, but I'm always conscious that I'm jumping on a word. I really would love to know the OP's thoughts on this discussion.

Non-consent is tricky because the definition skews all over the place. So do readers. I like SR's rationale that it's not rape (for the purposes of erotic fiction) if the victim accepts the act and would do it again with the same partner. Legally, of course, what occurs might still be rape. Emotionally, psychologically, it might still be rape. But for erotic purposes, it's just that they didn't want it but, yeah, really did kind of want it and now they want it again.

There are going to be people who can't distinguish between erotic fantasy and rape. On the plus side, they probably aren't writing any fiction worth reading.

 

[wickedanwayward]

I'm writing my first erotic story, and I'm looking for an editor to give me a lot of feedback. I'm not only looking to better my story, but to learn how to become a better writer as well. I tend to be short on detail, and would like for someone to help me with that. That is the main thing.

The story is currently unfinished, and around 700 words. I'd be glad to send what I have as a sample.

The basic plot is this: A man has kidnapped a woman, and is holding her captive. He is madly in love with her, and has been watching her for over a year. He is keeping her in a mansion on a private island. He is going to drug her with aphrodisiac with each meal, and if she refuses to eat (he tells her almost all of his plans) will render her unconscious and inject it into her. He will do this, with the aphrodisiac's effect growing stronger each time, until she is unable to say no to him.

I have ideas for sub-plots along the way, and would be willing for more ideas, and collaboration.

PM me for my email address, happy to look

 

[sr71plt]

It's the old "he/she wants it" and at the same time "he/she doesn't want it" dynamic that's so erotic. The erotic element resides in the stress between wanting and not wanting--on both sides of the sexual act. Even in rape fantasy, there's a strong element of the victim not wanting what is being done, and that element is the whole point of the fantasy, which is one of having no control over the sex act. As you say, the ultimate validation . . . I really like that line. That's precisely what's going on.

That's the old how it was before the "no means no" campaign came along. It's the literal minded of those in this campaign who can't separate fact from fantasy and who assume that "monkey read/monkey do" (which, unfortnuately is the case for a small number of people) who have muddied the waters in this area of eroticism. That's pretty much a done deal now in hetero sex stories.

The vigilantes have made some move on the GM stories as well (I occasionally get hate mail on the "no means no." Issue. But "no" doesn't necessarily mean "no" in the GM arena--it sometimes is part of a classic game--and I suspect it's a classic game in the hetero world too--or was before the literal-minded Carrie Nations came along).

 

[Firebrain]

No reasonable person advocates actual rape, and I doubt the OP was doing so. A lot of people, however, enjoy exploring the realm of rape fantasy. As a shortcut, most people will leave off the fantasy part of it and just say "rape" even when they mean erotic forced sex. That's why I tend to cut a lot of slack in these kinds of posts. It's important to keep the distinction between actual rape and erotic "rape" in mind, and important to have discussions like this, but I'm always conscious that I'm jumping on a word. I really would love to know the OP's thoughts on this discussion.

No, I don't think most of these stories are advocating actual rape. Not at all. But when I see a story about a person who is kidnapped and unhappy to the point of hunger strike, and has to be drugged so she'll sleep with the guy...where's the desire there? Having a rape fantasy and writing a rape fantasy story are two separate things, and I think that when we don't acknowledge the fantasy part, we end up with stories where the desire element is missing because the writer is modelling it on an actual rape. That is why I posted on this thread.

And y'know, there might be people who fantasise about being kidnapped and starving themselves so that they'll be let go, but that's a bit like the BDSM stories where it's evident that the BDSM is just a mask for some serious, er, issues (and no, not all of them are. I'm sure most BDSM-ers know that). Sometimes it's hard to distinguish what's written to excite and what is written to exorcise; what's more "fuck me up," than "fuck me," -- but when you spot the latter, however, it's kinda hard to find it sexy.

 

[SecretSubmissive]

I'd be happy to take a look at it for you

 

[MzDeviancy]

No, I don't think most of these stories are advocating actual rape. Not at all. But when I see a story about a person who is kidnapped and unhappy to the point of hunger strike, and has to be drugged so she'll sleep with the guy...where's the desire there? Having a rape fantasy and writing a rape fantasy story are two separate things, and I think that when we don't acknowledge the fantasy part, we end up with stories where the desire element is missing because the writer is modelling it on an actual rape. That is why I posted on this thread.

And y'know, there might be people who fantasise about being kidnapped and starving themselves so that they'll be let go, but that's a bit like the BDSM stories where it's evident that the BDSM is just a mask for some serious, er, issues (and no, not all of them are. I'm sure most BDSM-ers know that). Sometimes it's hard to distinguish what's written to excite and what is written to exorcise; what's more "fuck me up," than "fuck me," -- but when you spot the latter, however, it's kinda hard to find it sexy.

Seems like you're trying to make pronouncements on what other people should find sexy. For many people, our inner demons and our sexuality are hopelessly intertwined, and I fail to see any reason why we shouldn't be allowed to express our twisted desires for the reading pleasure of other fucked up folks. If you don't like it, you don't gotta read it.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I'm writing my first erotic story, and I'm looking for an editor to give me a lot of feedback. I'm not only looking to better my story, but to learn how to become a better writer as well. I tend to be short on detail, and would like for someone to help me with that. That is the main thing.

The story is currently unfinished, and around 700 words. I'd be glad to send what I have as a sample.

The basic plot is this: A man has kidnapped a woman, and is holding her captive. He is madly in love with her, and has been watching her for over a year. He is keeping her in a mansion on a private island. He is going to drug her with aphrodisiac with each meal, and if she refuses to eat (he tells her almost all of his plans) will render her unconscious and inject it into her. He will do this, with the aphrodisiac's effect growing stronger each time, until she is unable to say no to him.

I have ideas for sub-plots along the way, and would be willing for more ideas, and collaboration.

I've written a few series in the non-con/reluctance cat. Still trying to find the "line" between non-con and the dreaded "rape". So I lean towards reluctance.

Okay, you asked for help and I will offer it, as nobody else has thus far to my knowledge. Let's both discover where that "line" really lies.

I'll PM you my contact info. In the meantime look over my submissions in the cat and see if you are agreeable with my writing style.

Enough said.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I have no idea what the relevance of this is to the discussion the OP started.

And of course Laurel doesn't read "every" submission close enough to catch whether each story follows all of the posting rules. That's why the selection Bot gets it wrong so often in those "does it?" questions it based initial rejections of perfectly acceptable stories on--and why some that clearly don't meet the rules get posted.

(And thought you did the dying swan routine and left the forum forever just yesterday.)

Lol, hah-ha, and all that. If you hold me to a standard, I will hold you to the same. Sure, spank me, but you will in turn be humiliated if you go off-topic at all. Waiting...

I thought we were allies, but things change.

Allies become enemies. And so here we are. North and South, so to speak. Just waiting to see who fires first.

So nuke me, put me out of my misery. Or draw the line. Or better yet GO THE FUCK AWAY, but we know that won't happen.

And so the drama continues.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Lol, hah-ha, and all that. If you hold me to a standard, I will hold you to the same. Sure, spank me, but you will in turn be humiliated if you go off-topic at all. Waiting...

I thought we were allies, but things change.

Allies become enemies. And so here we are. North and South, so to speak. Just waiting to see who fires first.

So nuke me, put me out of my misery. Or draw the line. Or better yet GO THE FUCK AWAY, but we know that won't happen.

And so the drama continues.

Apparently SR is speechless. My "first strike" has rendered him incapable of a response!

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Apparently SR is speechless. My "first strike" has rendered him incapable of a response!

And the silence contues...

 

[sr71plt]

I was stringing popcorn for the Christmas tree in the den.

Surprisingly enough, AS, the whole world doesn't hang on your latest nutty post.

 

[_Lynn_]

I was stringing popcorn for the Christmas tree in the den.

Man, I think my kids were little the last time I did that. But I bet it would look cool on the little tree I have this year . . .