No, there is no voter fraud

[Wilson23]

N.B.: There is more than one kind of election fraud.

Ballot-box stuffing, or dishonest counting of votes, requires the cooperation of someone inside the elections office; that rarely happens unless some all-powerful political machine controls everything locally -- which is mostly a thing of the past, now, in the U.S.

Voter fraud is voting in someone else's name, and an individual can do it alone on his own initiative -- but it is a crime, and given the risk-reward balance it would make more sense to forge a Bed, Bath & Beyond coupon. There are isolated cases, but it never happens on a scale that could change the result of an election.

We know that because Republicans* have been trying desperately to find evidence to the contrary, and failing, at least since 1980.

We also know because the matter has been studied.
https://www.brennancenter.org/topics/voting-elections/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

Republican political consultant Rick Wilson refused to take True the Vote's money because, after exhaustive research, he could find no reason to believe the problem their organization existed to fight was real.

Can we please hear nothing more about this, now? Shove it into the same sewer as the "Deep State" nonsense.

*Why Republicans? Apparently they have lost confidence in their ability to win honestly, by convincing a majority of the people of the value of their policies. But to win they don't have to convince the PEOPLE, they only have to convince the VOTERS . . . so if they carefully narrow that category . . .

 

[Wilson23]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Voter_fraud
Voter fraud is a type of moral panic that is popular in the United States. As genuine cases of it are almost nonexistent, it's almost always a dog whistle term for people of color voting. Actual cases of voter fraud fall into three broad categories: a single person voting multiple times in a single election, an ineligible person voting (e.g., non-citizen or non-resident), or a person casting a ballot in someone else's name without written authorization. The more-broadly defined electoral fraud can also include such things as vote buying, false disenfranchisement, ballot destruction, duplicate counting of ballots (ballot stuffing), or tampering with voting machines.

In functioning democracies, voter fraud is by definition a rare event,[2] usually to the point where it does not affect the outcome of election.[3] On the other hand, the more authoritarian the government, the more likely it is that electoral fraud is part of all elections, e.g.:

100% of Iraqis voted for Saddam Hussein.[4]
Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov of Turkmenistan got 97%.[5]
Poor Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus only got 80%.[6]
Baseless or mostly-baseless allegations of voter fraud in the United States have been used as a proxy for racially-motivated restrictions on voting because of the Reconstruction-era Fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution that forbids race-based voting restrictions:[7]:300

“”The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Voter fraud allegations as a rationale for racially-biased voting restrictions was used by White nationalist southern Democrats starting in the late 19th century to restrict the voting power of African Americans, and continued as a nationwide Republican Party tactic after Dixiecrats moved en masse into the Republican Party.[7]:300-302


We must have tamper-proof biometric ID cards, otherwise illegal aliens and felons will intimidate your pure bodily fluids white daughters at the polling station!
A widespread belief persists of hordes of illegal immigrants and homeless people being bused around from one polling place to another on election day. This claim has been used as an excuse to pass voter ID laws, abolish same-day voter registration, require birth certificates when registering to vote, and conduct frequent purges of the voter rolls. Even if voter fraud actually was a significant problem, few (if any) of these measures would actually be effective in preventing it.

In the US, polling indicates that belief of voter fraud being widespread is highly correlated with belief in Christian nationalism.[8] Christian nationalists such as Paul Weyrich, co-founder of Moral Majority, have also spoken in favor of voter suppression measures in what they call "leverage" to exclude likely demographics that might oppose theocracy.[8][9]

 

[Wilson23]

Especially weary here because this issue is a PRATT, like the Deep State thing, or the Liberal Media. Once a lie has been thoroughly debunked, we should hear no more of it in the public square, including political messageboards -- it should die as dead as the arguments against women's suffrage or for Free Silver.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Point_refuted_a_thousand_times
To persist in a PRATT is nothing but willful ignorance.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Willful_ignorance

 

[Wilson23]

Also, it is impossible to rig a national election in the U.S., because the system is hyperfederalized -- run at the county level -- even a state Secretary of State plays almost no role in the process. A rigger would have to suborn 3,000 local elections offices.

And for obvious reasons, no election anywhere is EVER rigged AGAINST the party in power.

So how could anyone have taken it seriously, when Trump cried "Fraud!" in 2020?

 

[Wilson23]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Voter_fraud
Voter fraud is a type of moral panic that is popular in the United States. As genuine cases of it are almost nonexistent, it's almost always a dog whistle term for people of color voting. Actual cases of voter fraud fall into three broad categories: a single person voting multiple times in a single election, an ineligible person voting (e.g., non-citizen or non-resident), or a person casting a ballot in someone else's name without written authorization. The more-broadly defined electoral fraud can also include such things as vote buying, false disenfranchisement, ballot destruction, duplicate counting of ballots (ballot stuffing), or tampering with voting machines.

In functioning democracies, voter fraud is by definition a rare event,[2] usually to the point where it does not affect the outcome of election.[3] On the other hand, the more authoritarian the government, the more likely it is that electoral fraud is part of all elections, e.g.:

100% of Iraqis voted for Saddam Hussein.[4]
Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov of Turkmenistan got 97%.[5]
Poor Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus only got 80%.[6]
Baseless or mostly-baseless allegations of voter fraud in the United States have been used as a proxy for racially-motivated restrictions on voting because of the Reconstruction-era Fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution that forbids race-based voting restrictions:[7]:300

“”The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Voter fraud allegations as a rationale for racially-biased voting restrictions was used by White nationalist southern Democrats starting in the late 19th century to restrict the voting power of African Americans, and continued as a nationwide Republican Party tactic after Dixiecrats moved en masse into the Republican Party.[7]:300-302


We must have tamper-proof biometric ID cards, otherwise illegal aliens and felons will intimidate your pure bodily fluids white daughters at the polling station!
A widespread belief persists of hordes of illegal immigrants and homeless people being bused around from one polling place to another on election day. This claim has been used as an excuse to pass voter ID laws, abolish same-day voter registration, require birth certificates when registering to vote, and conduct frequent purges of the voter rolls. Even if voter fraud actually was a significant problem, few (if any) of these measures would actually be effective in preventing it.

In the US, polling indicates that belief of voter fraud being widespread is highly correlated with belief in Christian nationalism.[8] Christian nationalists such as Paul Weyrich, co-founder of Moral Majority, have also spoken in favor of voter suppression measures in what they call "leverage" to exclude likely demographics that might oppose theocracy.[8][9]

This goes back a long way, too:

As the Jim Crow era began coming to an end, Black voters began leaving the Party of Lincoln (GOP) for the Democratic Party, making the GOP increasingly White. The GOP struggled to win in cities, and concluded from the results of the 1960 election that a new strategy was needed.[7]:304-305 Thus was born Operation Eagle Eye, which focused on the 1964 election in Arizona, which was based on a scheme led by future Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist[note 1] in the 1962 election in Phoenix.[7]:304 The scheme consisted of:[7]:304

"Caging", sending mail to registered voters and using any returned mail as the basis for challenging the legitimacy of registrations
Sending deceptive mailers and phone calls to registered Democrats, stating that they would be arrested if they have a traffic violation and they vote, or telling them to vote for Martin Luther King Jr., who was not on the ballot
Sending GOP "poll watchers" to polling places, specifically to harass minority voters, including both people with "Ballot Security" armbands and uniformed-and-armed off-duty police officers
Operation Eagle Eye became a blueprint for future voter suppression strategies.[7]:304-305

Ronald Reagan began a campaign in 1975 against poor and urban people voting, with the implicit idea that they're likely to commit voter fraud,[7]:305[15] later demonizing the poor as 'welfare queens'.

In 1980, Paul Weyrich, co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, went further than Reagan in saying that voter suppression was the key to Republicans winning elections, and opposing what he called "Goo-Goo Syndrome" (good government).[7]:306[16]

In 1981, the national and state GOP revived the 1964 Operation Eagle Eye tactics in New Jersey, with the GOP claiming without evidence that there was a tradition of urban vote fraud. The election sites in minority districts were again patrolled by GOP members and armed off-duty police who harassed poll workers and would-be voters.[7]:306[17]

False claims that there had been voter fraud in St. Louis, Missouri in the 2000 U.S. presidential election were made by a Mark "Thor" Hearne, Bush/Cheney representative, and Missouri Senator Christopher "Kit" Bond. The Board of Elections had erroneously removed 50,000 registered voters, and a court had ordered extended voting hours to remedy the situation after the voters had been restored to the election roll. Hearne and Bond had claimed that the court order represented fraud, Bond used his false allegation to write part of the Help America Vote Act, which allowed individual states to require identification to vote.[7]:306-307 Voter identification is regarded by the Brennan Center for Justice as a form of vote suppression targeted at minorities.[18]

Indiana became the first state to pass a voter ID law in 2006.[19] This was despite there being no known instance of voter fraud in Indiana.[7]:309 In 2007, Judge Terence T. Evans dissented on the constitutionality of the law in a circuit court ruling, stating, "Let's not beat around the bush: The Indiana voter photo ID law is a not-too-thinly veiled attempt to discourage election-day turnout by certain folks believed to skew Democratic."[20] Judge Richard A. Posner, who had ruled in favor of its constitutionality in the circuit court, later said that he regretted writing the majority opinion, stating that often "judges aren’t given the facts that they need to make a sound decision."[21] When it was appealed again, Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens wrote the majority opinion that ruled the law as constitutional, but later said that it was "a fairly unfortunate decision."[7]:309

Belief that voter fraud occurs in the US is common, particularly among Republicans.[22] Despite this, it has been documented that only 31 credible incidents of voter impersonation occurred out of 1 billion ballots cast between 2000 and 2014.[23]

In 2016, Donald Trump poured fuel onto the fire of the myth of rampant voter fraud, in large part due to his bruised ego from winning the Electoral College but losing the popular vote. After he entered the White House, he created the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity to investigate the "fraud" of how he lost the popular vote.[7]:310 The commission decamped without producing any credible evidence. Its sole product included an outline of preordained conclusions.[24] This could be regarded as a prelude to Trump's allegations of voter fraud in the 2020 election, in which he lost both the Electoral College and the popular vote.

 

[Rightguide]

Yes, 315,000 unsigned ballots counted in Georgia in the 2020 election were not fraudulent under Georgia law.

 

[Wilson23]

Yes, 315,000 unsigned ballots counted in Georgia in the 2020 election were not fraudulent under Georgia law.

2020: The year that allegations of voter fraud led to an attempted coup
See the main article on this topic: 2021 U.S. coup attempt
“”I don't want my vote or anyone else's to be disenfranchised. […] Do you realize how inaccurate the voter rolls are, with people just moving around. […] Anytime you move, you'll change your driver's license, but you don't call up and say, hey, by the way I'm re-registering.
—Mark Meadows (White House Press Secretary under Donald Trump from 2020-21), August 16, 2020[50][51]
“”We need to make sure that everybody's vote is cast. But we also need to make sure that no one else disenfranchises those by creating a fraud on the voting system.
—Mark Meadows (August 23, 2020)[50][52]
Following his resounding defeat in the 2020 U.S. presidential election, Donald Trump began actively circulating allegations that he had actually won the election, and only lost it because of voter fraud. But this was not actually new; Trump has claimed voter fraud even before he became a politician[53] — meaning he won the 2016 U.S. presidential election despite (or because of) voter fraud in his own mind.

Many false claims of voter fraud in 2020 were initially propagated by Russell J. Ramsland Jr. with his company Allied Security Operations Group. Ramsland tried unsuccessfully to push similar false claims in 2018, but no candidate took his bait at that time.[54] In 2020, the false claims were incorporated into failed lawsuits by Trump lawyer Sidney Powell and Trump surrogates Louie Gohmert and Rudy Giuliani.[54] The voting machine companies that were defamed by Powell and Trump's other surrogates, Giuliani, Lou Dobbs, Fox News, and Newsmax, have subsequently been sued for defamation to the tune of billions of dollars.[55]

Trump claimed in 2017 that there had been between 3 and 5 million votes cast in the 2016 presidential election by ineligible undocumented immigrants ("illegals" in MAGA parlance).[56] Unsurprisingly, the low end of this range was just over the number of popular votes that Trump lost by (2.9 million). Similarly, Trump's henchman, Giuliani, claimed in 2020 that 40,000-250,000 ineligible ballots were cast in the 2016 election, as many as 1 in 14 votes cast.[57][58] Despite these very large claims of invalid ballots, House Speaker Mike Johnson admitted that he had no estimate while also claiming that there were unspecified large numbers.[58] I.e., Johnson failed to even PIDOOMA:[58]

 

[Wilson23]

Yes, 315,000 unsigned ballots counted in Georgia in the 2020 election were not fraudulent under Georgia law.

If they could not prove that in court -- AND THEY TRIED -- then, no, not fraudulent.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

From the Wall Street Journal:

Yet Georgia’s ballots in 2020 were counted three times, twice by scanner and once by hand, five million of them. “In 73% of Georgia’s 159 counties, the margin of the hand count varied from the original by 10 voters or fewer,” these pages reported at the time. “In a quarter of counties, the two numbers exactly matched.” In other words, the hand tally validated the machine count.

Unsigned tabulator tapes are a problem, and that this mistake was so apparently widespread during early voting in Fulton County is an indicator that its election office deserved an overhaul. Yet an error by poll workers isn’t a reason to throw out tens or hundreds of thousands of ballots cast by Georgians who did nothing wrong. “A clerical error at the end of the day does not erase valid, legal votes,” Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said.

Robert Sinners, a spokesman for Mr. Raffensperger’s office, provided further explanation to the Center Square news site. The signature requirement “wasn’t even part of the election code—it was a procedural rule,” according to Mr. Sinners. “Based on the reports from appointed monitors who were on site in Fulton County reviewing the conduct of the election—there was sloppiness that needed improvement, but outright fraud was not a concern.”

This is all getting more attention than it deserves because Mr. Raffensperger is running for Governor, and his GOP primary opponents are using the Fulton County mistake against him. But his opponents offer no evidence that the error produced fraudulent ballots.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/magas-l...28f71?st=aJTe9d&reflink=article_copyURL_share

 

[Wilson23]

Yes, 315,000 unsigned ballots counted in Georgia in the 2020 election were not fraudulent under Georgia law.

See post #3.

 

[Bray123]

https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11...-investigation-is-underway-into-sen-bumstead/
Republican forged ballot signatures


https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-candidates-wife-arrested-charged-234347668.html
Republican forged votes


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...-republican-party-vice-chair-voted-illegally/
Republican voted nine times illegally (in Georgia)


https://www.npr.org/2024/05/31/g-s1...lection-conspiracy-theory-film-issues-apology
Producer of '2000 Mules' admits it was all lies and apologises.

 

[Wilson23]

https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11...-investigation-is-underway-into-sen-bumstead/
Republican forged ballot signatures


https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-candidates-wife-arrested-charged-234347668.html
Republican forged votes


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...-republican-party-vice-chair-voted-illegally/
Republican voted nine times illegally (in Georgia)


https://www.npr.org/2024/05/31/g-s1...lection-conspiracy-theory-film-issues-apology
Producer of '2000 Mules' admits it was all lies and apologises.

You see? It's Republicans who do it -- and even then, it never makes a difference!

 

[Rebel5soul]

And then there was the unconstitutional voting procedures in PA.

 

[Wilson23]

And then there was the unconstitutional voting procedures in PA.

What exactly was that?

 

[YDB95]

What exactly was that?

Another time Trump sued and lost. Baseless here as everywhere.

 

[LilKitKat]

Elon Musk
Starlink

thats all Im gonna say

 

[Rebel5soul]

Another time Trump sued and lost. Baseless here as everywhere.

And his suit was validated by the PA. supreme court that found the 'emergency' liberalization of the voting laws unconstitutional. That ruling basically rendered ALL of the votes cast under the 'exceptions' allowed by the inferior courts invalid. Of course you can't unwind the clock so the point is moot, but fraud it was.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Yes, 315,000 unsigned ballots counted in Georgia in the 2020 election were not fraudulent under Georgia law.

Why don't you link us to your multiple failed threads on Arizona fraud, Jack?

Because they make you look like an even bigger fucking idiot

 

[Wilson23]

And his suit was validated by the PA. supreme court that found the 'emergency' liberalization of the voting laws unconstitutional. That ruling basically rendered ALL of the votes cast under the 'exceptions' allowed by the inferior courts invalid. Of course you can't unwind the clock so the point is moot, but fraud it was.

That would not be VOTER fraud.

 

[dkovic77]

From the Wall Street Journal:

Yet Georgia’s ballots in 2020 were counted three times, twice by scanner and once by hand, five million of them. “In 73% of Georgia’s 159 counties, the margin of the hand count varied from the original by 10 voters or fewer,” these pages reported at the time. “In a quarter of counties, the two numbers exactly matched.” In other words, the hand tally validated the machine count.

Unsigned tabulator tapes are a problem, and that this mistake was so apparently widespread during early voting in Fulton County is an indicator that its election office deserved an overhaul. Yet an error by poll workers isn’t a reason to throw out tens or hundreds of thousands of ballots cast by Georgians who did nothing wrong. “A clerical error at the end of the day does not erase valid, legal votes,” Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said.

Robert Sinners, a spokesman for Mr. Raffensperger’s office, provided further explanation to the Center Square news site. The signature requirement “wasn’t even part of the election code—it was a procedural rule,” according to Mr. Sinners. “Based on the reports from appointed monitors who were on site in Fulton County reviewing the conduct of the election—there was sloppiness that needed improvement, but outright fraud was not a concern.”

This is all getting more attention than it deserves because Mr. Raffensperger is running for Governor, and his GOP primary opponents are using the Fulton County mistake against him. But his opponents offer no evidence that the error produced fraudulent ballots.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/magas-l...28f71?st=aJTe9d&reflink=article_copyURL_share

Boobs.. you do see it’s an opinion piece right? Not usually factual, but in your brain it’s fact adjacent.

They getting a special jello for NYE?

 

[Bray123]

And his suit was validated by the PA. supreme court that found the 'emergency' liberalization of the voting laws unconstitutional. That ruling basically rendered ALL of the votes cast under the 'exceptions' allowed by the inferior courts invalid. Of course you can't unwind the clock so the point is moot, but fraud it was.

A liberalization of voting laws may or may not be 'unconstitutional' according to the alliances and bribes of a court, but that has nothing to do with fraud (the election, not the court decision which has no relevance in other states than PA).

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Boobs.. you do see it’s an opinion piece right? Not usually factual, but in your brain it’s fact adjacent.

They getting a special jello for NYE?

Yes, it’s from the WSJ editorial board. The facts they cite in the piece to support their opinion are accurate and have been widely reported.

 

[PacificWaves]

Yes, 315,000 unsigned ballots counted in Georgia in the 2020 election were not fraudulent under Georgia law.

As I understand it, poll workers were supposed to sign the tabulation tapes. Some of them were not signed.

 

[wallstreetguy]

Noted from here: Blacks left GOP because Dems had gimmes (New Deal and then Great Society) and they wanted that more than honoring GOP efforts post Civil War. Whites went GOP when they saw that Dems were party of gimmes.

 

[Wilson23]

Noted from here: Blacks left GOP because Dems had gimmes (New Deal and then Great Society) and they wanted that more than honoring GOP efforts post Civil War. Whites went GOP when they saw that Dems were party of gimmes.

Europeans went for social democrats as the party of gimmes. They have had no reason to regret that.