No Recidivism

[Bianca_Sommerland]

Thought this was interesting and fitting.

J. Edgar Hoover, late director of Federal Bureau of Investigations, asks the

following questions: “Have you ever thought about how many criminals escape

punishment, and yet, the victims never have a chance to do that? Are crime victims in the United States today the forgotten people of our time? Do they receive full measure of justice (as cited in Isenberg, 1977, p. 129)?

A criminal on death row has a chance to prepare his death, make a will, and make his last statements, etc. while some victims can never do it. There are many other crimes where people are injured by stabbing, rape, theft, etc. To some degree at least, the victims right to freedom and pursuit of happiness is violated.

When the assailant is apprehended and charged, he has the power of the judicial process who protects his constitutional rights. What about the victim? The assailant may have compassion from investigating officers, families and friends. Furthermore, the criminal may have organized campaigns of propaganda to build sympathy for him as if he is the one who has been sinned against. These false claims are publicized, for no reason, hence, protecting the criminal (Isenberg, I., 1977).

The former Theodore L. Sendak, Attorney General of Indiana delivered a speech to Law enforcement officials in Northern Indiana on May 12, 1971 (as cited in Isenberg, 1977):

“Our system of criminal law is to minimize human

suffering by works or order primarily to forestall

violence or aggression. In the question of the death

penalty, we must ask ourselves which action will

serve the true humanitarian purpose of criminal law.

We should weigh the death of the convicted murders

against the loss of life of his victims and the possibility

of potential victims to murder (p. 129)

In arguments of the death penalty, there are two lives to think about. Too much emphasis is placed on the convicted murderer, the one being executed, and the victim is all forgotten.

And while we're looking at innocent people getting convicted and thankfully not facing death penalty let's look at the guilty.

Randy Greenawalt -- Escaped from Prison in 1978, while serving a life sentence for a 1974 murder. He then murdered a family of 4 people, shotgunning them to death, including a toddler.

Timothy Buss -- Murdered five-year-old girl. Sentenced to 25 years in 1981. Paroled 1993. Murdered 10-year-old boy. Condemned 1996.

Dwain Little -- Oregon. Raped/Stabbed 16-year-old girl. Life term 1966. Paroled 1974. Returned as Parole Violator 1975. Again Released 1977. Then shot family of 4. Three consecutive life terms for rape and murder 1980.

Arthur Shawcross (The 'Monster of the Rivers') -- Released after serving a 25 year sentence for a child murder, turned to murdering prostitutes. At least 10 in all. Now serving ten consecutive sentences of 25 years to life - 250 years in all.

Scott Lehr -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. After release, between Feb 91 and Feb 92 lured 10 different female victims, between the ages of 10 and 48-years-old, into his car. Raping and beating them unconscious, stripped and abandoned them in the desert. Three of his victims died in those acts.

Kenneth McDuff - Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman. Subsequently released, and murdered as many as 19 young women after his release. Finally executed in 1998 for the murder of Melissa Ann Northrup see ... Who once remarked "Killing a woman is like killing a chicken. They both squawk."

There's more but I think you get the point. Yes there is a chance that innocent people might suffer. As you can see, when those who hold human life to such little value are allowed to live people will suffer. How many innocent lives might have been spared. It's not speculation of possible error, it's what has happened when these people either escape or are released.

Be interesting to know how much better it is to have murderers in prison for life sentences with those who are wrongfully convicted. An innocent man or woman might get out on appeal. I don't think a serial killer GAF whether the person is innocent or not. Probably prefer if they are.

Now that I think about it I would prefer to be innocently on death row than be tortured or raped in prison. JMO.

 

[cloudy]

What you're conveniently ignoring is that I've never advocated turning convicted killers back out on the streets. It isn't so simplistic that the choices are a) kill the fuckers, or b) turn them loose. It's disingenuous of you to pretend that those are the only choices that we have.

We don't have to kill them.

And as far as your "punishment fitting the crime goes," if that were true, then people convicted of assault would get the shit beat out of them, instead of serving time. Deadbeat parents would be forced to exist on bread and water for months; rapists wouldn't serve time, they'd just be raped, and so on.

Its a straw man argument, and useless.

 

[sr71plt]

I'd like to see them try boring to death some of the hard-core criminals. Not giving them access to reading/writing/computer/TV materials for years and years and years.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

What you're conveniently ignoring is that I've never advocated turning convicted killers back out on the streets. It isn't so simplistic that the choices are a) kill the fuckers, or b) turn them loose. It's disingenuous of you to pretend that those are the only choices that we have.

We don't have to kill them.

And as far as your "punishment fitting the crime goes," if that were true, then people convicted of assault would get the shit beat out of them, instead of serving time. Deadbeat parents would be forced to exist on bread and water for months; rapists wouldn't serve time, they'd just be raped, and so on.

Its a straw man argument, and I really thought you were smarter than that.

The choices right now are leave things as they are in states and countries that don't have Capital punishment or have Capital punishment which you've mentioned is faulty. If it's idealistic, as I'm pretty sure you've mentioned before, to believe that Capital Punishment could be done in a way that spares the innocent and those arguing for it are being forced to see the penalty of the system as it stands then why doesn't the argument work in reverse?

And I'm pretending nothing. You take a human life for your own sick pleasure then IMO your life is forfeit. And as for punishment fitting the crime when did that become punishment being the crime? I haven't even said all murderers should be on death row. Involuntary manslaughter, use of excessive force in self defense, criminal negligence resulting in death, these people do not belong on death row.

As for your last statement, if you don't want to debate this anymore that's your choice. Being insulting doesn't negate my points.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

I'd like to see them try boring to death some of the hard-core criminals. Not giving them access to reading/writing/computer/TV materials for years and years and years.

I like that. 'You're here for Rico violation? No Sopranos for you!'

 

[cloudy]

Telling you that you're smart is an insult.

um, okay. Whatever. I'll be sure to never "insult" you that way again.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

Telling you that you're smart is an insult.

um, okay. Whatever. I'll be sure to never "insult" you that way again.

You thought I was smarter than that. I noticed you changed your post after. Either way, we're obviously not going to agree. I've supported my opinion. You've supported yours. Both views have merit.

 

[trysail]

If you lived in the area during that time, you'll never forget the period. People were, quite literally, afraid to leave their houses.

Convicted sniper John Allen Muhammad lost a U.S. Supreme Court bid to stop his execution, scheduled for tomorrow in Virginia, for one of 10 killings that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area over three weeks in 2002.

Muhammad was convicted of killing Dean Harold Meyers, 53, in Manassas, Virginia, in October 2002 while Meyers was filling his car at a gas station. He is scheduled to die by lethal injection. ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a2pyK7Wxl0UY

 

[Boxlicker101]

If you lived in the area during that time, you'll never forget the period. People were, quite literally, afraid to leave their houses.




http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a2pyK7Wxl0UY

What were this guy's grounds for appeal? Some of them I've heard about and read about were 100% bogus, intended to induce some bleeding heart liberal judge to help them avoid justice for a little longer.

BTW, I would never advocate killing all convicted murders, but this guy has got it coming.