No Children Allowed

[CharleyH]

From my observation the major problem with children in public is that the parents are used to one level of incivility from their children, while others expect more civilized behavior.

I have seen mothers seemingly completely ignore their runing-wild children in a store. However, as soon as the children start to get into real trouble, the mother is instantly aware.

Another problem is the ability of many parents to completely ignore a crying, screaming child, particularly in a restaurant. I don't need some kid screaming his/her lungs out while I am trying to eat.

Since my parents own a restaurant, and since I worked in it for many years, I can say that I have great knowledge of your types lol.

On the one hand, it's not kosher for parents to let their kids run around in a fine dining restaurant while hot plates of dinner are being served - I have actually seen a kid plow over a waitress and let me tell you how unpretty the scene was - those particular parents thought it cute - neither my mother, the waitress, nor the diners whose dinner had to be re-cooked were particularly happy. In this instance, my mother said "get control of your children or kindly go to MacDonalds."

In the other scenario, a young couple came in with a small baby. The baby was sleeping and woke up and was crying. The parents tried everything to quiet the child, but to no avail. Another couple in the restaurant called my mother over and said to her "Either get those people to shut that kid up or we are never coming back here again." (please note this was the 5pm - to 7pm dinner hour, as most people do not take their babies fine dining between 7 and 10pm - a good time for people to eat). My mother simply said, "Good-bye then and showed them the door."

God she was a great woman!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Sir and Ma'am are only one small sympton of "good manners" and are NOT an absolute necessity. It is possible tohave good manners without being that formal.

However, I'm likely to recognise "good manners quicker" if a child requests my attention with, "Excuse me, Sir" rather than with, "Hey, You!"

A part of "good manners" is granting conditional respect -- or "feigning respect," if you prefer -- until someone demonstrates whether deserve respect or not.

There are other "polite modes of address" involved in "good manners" and I would expect older children to utilize some of the nuances possible within the bounds of "Formal Good Manners" -- a la Emily Post -- but teaching young children to use a single mode of address is much easier than trying to teach all of the nuances and possibilities at once; they can learn about the exceptions and alternatives as they grow capable of understanding them.

Thanks you kind sir, you said that better than I could have. This is the point I was trying, without success, to get across. As I got older the requirement of sir or ma'am changed but never, ever degenerated to 'Hey you!' or 'Hey dude!' which is just a dreadful way to address someone, anyone.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I remember walking around my local (American) mall a few years back, and I was shocked to see a mother who had her child on a leash. I thought it was inhumane to have another person strapped up like a dog in public, and unnecessary because the child wouldn't need to be bound like that if the mother had taken responsibility to raise the child right in the first place. To me, the child leash isn't a sign of a problem child, but of sheer parental laziness.

A leash isn't necessarily a sign of either of those. It could simply be a sign of a mother who wants to make sure her children do not get away from her or grabbed in a crowded, unfamiliar place. (Yes, I've used one with a child as old as 5. Leashed= "safe" and "peace of mind" for me... of course, I've got three within less than two years of age of each other.)

 

[FallingToFly]

A leash isn't necessarily a sign of either of those. It could simply be a sign of a mother who wants to make sure her children do not get away from her or grabbed in a crowded, unfamiliar place. (Yes, I've used one with a child as old as 5. Leashed= "safe" and "peace of mind" for me... of course, I've got three within less than two years of age of each other.)

That's my situation as well- they've only got 5 years between oldest and youngest. And, like you, I've leashed them here and there. Always at things like fairs or street carnivals- the one time I didn't, I ended up losing my middle one. Luckily, the police found him, knew who he belonged to, and I was already in a panic in their office- the entire ordeal lasted less than ten minutes. Since then, street fairs and carnivals require an enforced buddy system, only we use ribbon instead of lead ropes.

I've only had to seriously leash them the once. That once was enough to drill it into their heads that the loss of social status (I told you, they all are planning on taking over the world, you can't do that if no one respects your right to rule) wasn't worth doing whatever it is they want to do.

Then again, it may be part of the master plan. You never know where the Demons are concerned.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

That's my situation as well- they've only got 5 years between oldest and youngest. And, like you, I've leashed them here and there. Always at things like fairs or street carnivals- the one time I didn't, I ended up losing my middle one. Luckily, the police found him, knew who he belonged to, and I was already in a panic in their office- the entire ordeal lasted less than ten minutes. Since then, street fairs and carnivals require an enforced buddy system, only we use ribbon instead of lead ropes.

I've only had to seriously leash them the once. That once was enough to drill it into their heads that the loss of social status (I told you, they all are planning on taking over the world, you can't do that if no one respects your right to rule) wasn't worth doing whatever it is they want to do.

Then again, it may be part of the master plan. You never know where the Demons are concerned.

There's four years between my oldest and youngest... but only a year and a half (little less) between the middle two and the baby. And it's very likely that I will do it a few more times at least because I will probably do so after we move until I get used to living in a bigger city.

 

[Aurora Black]

A leash isn't necessarily a sign of either of those. It could simply be a sign of a mother who wants to make sure her children do not get away from her or grabbed in a crowded, unfamiliar place. (Yes, I've used one with a child as old as 5. Leashed= "safe" and "peace of mind" for me... of course, I've got three within less than two years of age of each other.)

I repeat: I didn't mean to offend. They were just my observations.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Now I'm thinking of cute kid stories, lol.

There was this little boy.. probably.. hmm.. 4ish. His dad brought him in for a haircut. The child was very sweet, very inquisitive, and wanted to know what everything was and what everything did. (More so than usual, lol.)
He asked if he could turn the clippers on, saying please and thank you without being told, etc.
At one point he said, "Hey, Barber Lady.." and the dad cut him off, saying, "Son, why don't you ask her what her name is, instead of calling her 'Barber Lady'."
The kid looked at him, then back to me, and said, "Okay. Barber Lady, what is your name?"
I had to laugh, the dad rolled his eyes- not exactly what he'd had it mind, but it worked.
So I told the kid my name, and he used it the rest of the time.

When kids got their haircut, we'd ask parents if they could have a sucker or a piece of bubble gum. Well, this kid was an old pro. He politely asked for a sucker, so I gave it to him. He then looked up at me and said, "Hey, Barber Lady, could you throw this away for me please?"

I guess this is in refrence to children calling people Sir or Ma'am. I wasn't offended by this child calling me Barber Lady. The rest of his manners were perfect, he sat still, etc.. he was a 'model' child.
I've never really thought about what children call me..
Usually, if they know my name, its some variation of that.. Tabitha seems to be a toughy for the youngins though, lol.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I repeat: I didn't mean to offend. They were just my observations.

You didn't offend me. I was just stating some other reasons behind the use of them.

 

[yui]

Thank you. Sir and ma'am implies fear, not respect. Children that use such terms are fearful or faking it. I'd rather have them be sincere and have/show real respect.

I respectfully disagree. It's a difference in culture and nuance, eh? I'm very "sir " and "ma'am" and I have always been, because that's how I was raised; I don't fear my parents, but I do respect them, greatly. I don't think this is a bad thing, as they are certainly worthy of my respect.

Luck,

Yui

 

[Weird Harold]

The kid looked at him, then back to me, and said, "Okay. Barber Lady, what is your name?"
I had to laugh, the dad rolled his eyes- not exactly what he'd had it mind, but it worked....

I guess this is in refrence to children calling people Sir or Ma'am. I wasn't offended by this child calling me Barber Lady. The rest of his manners were perfect, he sat still, etc.. he was a 'model' child.
I've never really thought about what children call me.
...

Good story, and it points out the real reson for teaching kids to call adults Sir or Ma'am -- it's a generic answer to "How do you address someone if you don't know their name or title" that is easy for kids to remember.

Many of my parents' generation would be offended by a child using their first name -- and a fairly large percentage of my geberation as well -- but the rigid distinction between familiar and formal modes of address has been lost, or relaxed, in later generations.

"Barber Lady" isn't a bad compromise for a young child to come up with, but children shouldn't have to invent their own titles for people.